Author Topic: CJ love  (Read 28303 times)

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427Fastback

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #45 on: August 11, 2020, 03:35:13 PM »
You guys must have better fuel down there than we have in Canada...My Iron 427 heads lost all 8 exhaust seats in 17,000 miles.The CJ in the 66 already had seats put in and I question the seat support..I kept the cam and spring pressure conservative.Last 390 I pulled apart needed 8 seats...I would at the very least run a additive.....JMO...Cory
1968 Mustang Fastback...427 MR 5spd (owned since 1977)
1967 Mustang coupe...Trans Am replica
1936 Diamond T 212BD
1990 Grizzly pick-up

turbohunter

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #46 on: August 11, 2020, 03:52:26 PM »
Yup have thought about that.
This car won’t get a lot of mileage so cost isn’t a factor with an additive.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


RustyCrankshaft

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #47 on: August 11, 2020, 04:55:22 PM »
I went through this over the last few years on several engines. I'm currently running 1 390, 1 489BBC, and 2 small blocks (in the same boat) and none of them have hard seats. So far I haven't had any trouble with them. The boat is the one I worry about the most since it's under a load all the time and it's the only thing I run an additive in. So far it's got 300 hours of WOT on each engine I think last time I looked at my notes, and a bunch of part throttle and idle time and the valve adjustment isn't changing and the leak down was still acceptable. I'm sure it's on borrowed time, but so far.....

The 390 and the BBC I don't run an additive in and they're both fine as well. Neither one sees a lot of sustained load. Both are in "shop" trucks. Mostly they run to the parts store and are the get home vehicles for when I drive the latest hoopty to the shop and it won't drive out again!

Depends on how much you want to drive it.

In my case, at the time I figured it was cheaper to do a "quick" freshen up on the 390 and BBC heads and run them and if I still own either of them when the exh seats become a problem I'll swap to modern aluminum, so far the time hasn't come yet.

cjshaker

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #48 on: August 12, 2020, 01:03:30 PM »
Just adding my experience here.
I ran C4 heads in the 390 in my Highboy. C4 heads are known for the same issue with lack of support for hardened exhaust seats. Since it was going in a hard working Highboy, I had decided to use hardened seats before I knew of this issue. The very experienced gentleman who did the machine work thought it would be okay, and we're talking about at least 30+% of the seat support was gone.

I ran those heads for over 23 years in my Highboy, with lots of abuse. 2 years ago, I gave them a light valve lapping, and with no other work than a good cleaning (and a couple new valves from bad pitting), threw them on the 390 in my '65 Galaxie and drove to Atlanta and back, from NW Ohio. I have not seen a single issue with them. That engine regularly got spun to 5500, and occasionally to almost 6k. I'm convinced, with good installation, the lack of support is not an issue unless you're going to be thrashing the engine hard in a racing environment.

The Medium Riser heads in my Mach do not have hardened seats. You know what it's been through, thousands of street miles on Drag Week and at home, racing DW, a couple of other events and the FE reunion. I use low lead race fuel on the track, but street driving during DW always saw 93 Premium. I usually keep a mix in it at home, because I know I'll be having some fun with it anytime I drove it. I have yet to see an issue with the heads, with no hardened seats.

Blair used hardened seats on the C4 heads that I bought off of him and put in my F350, which pulls my heavy car trailer. He originally built the engine with a spirited cruiser in mind, and knew of the support issue. I think he doesn't have a problem with it either, assuming good installation.

It almost seems to me you could go either way and be fine, unless pulling heavy loads like Bill said. Then I'd definitely opt for the seats.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

turbohunter

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #49 on: August 12, 2020, 02:06:21 PM »
Yeah this car will see light duty except for maybe Drag Week. It’s still on my bucket list. If all goes the way I think it will, we’ll be moving back there in the foreseeable future and that will make for an easier tow (not that that’s an excuse but.....It is). The thing is I have a DW motor that I’ve been collecting parts for for a while now. So the CJ is just a labor of love to save a piece of history (and you never know if you’ll run across a mustang body in need of a heart).
Meanwhile it can help me to get the Fairlane up and running. If folks would send me my damn parts I could get the mustang out of the garage and roll the Fairlane in. But things are at least moving forward and I’m happy to learn about parts I have not had before.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


turbohunter

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #50 on: August 12, 2020, 02:40:40 PM »
Oh great, more good news.
Just got word that every part in the block is junk. Crank is way cracked, rods cracked, more pistons broken, bearings are trashed.
Whoever assembled this thing just slammed it together.
Block still has to be gone over. Hopefully it survived.

If it was easy anyone could do it. ;D
« Last Edit: August 12, 2020, 04:29:54 PM by turbohunter »
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


WConley

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #51 on: August 12, 2020, 10:58:21 PM »
Yikes!  Sounds like the Shelby KR came out ahead in this deal  :-[  Hopefully the block checks out OK...
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

turbohunter

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #52 on: August 13, 2020, 06:58:08 AM »
It’s funny, Gary gave me a call yesterday. I think he heard I was having trouble. He has parts. He also is taking his engine to the same place I took the short block to, QMP.
He collected the parts in case he needed them to complete he engine for his KR. He as assured me that if he doesn’t need them they would be available to me. I think I know the history of the KR engine and it SHOULD be ok. If his engine is a wreck and needs the parts then no sweat, we’re even.
Bottom line is both of us are fully aware.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


Nightmist66

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #53 on: August 13, 2020, 07:20:28 PM »
Yikes!  Sounds like the Shelby KR came out ahead in this deal  :-[  Hopefully the block checks out OK...


The old saying, No good deed goes unpunished, comes to mind. Reminds me of trying to build my current mill. I was on number 3 or 4 block and can't list all of the things that fought along the way. I don't think there was one single part that actually fit without modification. Then, I do a break-in on the test stand and everything goes south despite doing everything by the book....Round two made it into the car and is currently driving. I'm still waiting for something catastrophic to happen at the least opportune time.

But hey Marc, you got this.  ;)
Jared



66 Fairlane GT 390 - .035" Over 390, Wide Ratio Top Loader, 9" w/spool, 4.86

turbohunter

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #54 on: September 04, 2020, 06:31:44 PM »
Block has been magged, pressure checked and baked.
It’s good. Whew. Now we’re cookin. They didn’t mention a sonic check but I’ll make sure that gets done. I’ll just give it a hone anyway.
Got the heads back assembled. Since they’re kinda frankensteinish I didn’t want to spend more than I needed to with them so I left the 3/8 valves in them. Had them do a nice valve job. Old springs were garbage so they put a set of Elgin’s on there. 110 closed, 350 open. Rueben smoothed out the steps (in the chamber) around the valves and set them up nice and even. The valve guides were an absolute mess. Many were in upside down. On the bad head the stem seats were so screwed up that he had to machine them down and use smaller seals.
I know, I know why bother when I could buy a set of aluminum heads and get more power. That’s not the point for me. I want to save these heads and I’m going to keep trying to find more. They’re kinda like that 3 legged dog that you just wanna take care of.
I’ve been mulling over in my head what to do about the crank. The 1UB is a pile so I have to get another. I have a very generous offer from a fantastic guy in our forum for a 1U. And I am considering that. I’ve been down this road before and I know it will cost me more for what I want than just buying a new cast Scat and a set of rods.
I’m kind of hung up on how much arm I want. Part of me wants to stay with a 4 inch stroke but the other devil on my shoulder is saying “go for cubes moron”. Can the stock CJ heads support more arm or would they rather stay with a 4 inch stroke. These are the questions running through my mind.
I love this shit.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


mike7570

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #55 on: September 04, 2020, 07:44:57 PM »
Got a crank for you in classifieds!
Just pick up some light pistons and rods to get the balancing cost in line.

jayb

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #56 on: September 04, 2020, 08:39:41 PM »
Part of me wants to stay with a 4 inch stroke but the other devil on my shoulder is saying “go for cubes moron”.

Listen to the devil...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

turbohunter

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #57 on: September 04, 2020, 08:47:56 PM »
LOLOLOL
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


My427stang

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #58 on: September 04, 2020, 08:48:43 PM »
I have a .010/.010 IUB if you need one, Magged and polished but has been run at .010
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

turbohunter

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Re: CJ love
« Reply #59 on: September 05, 2020, 07:27:17 AM »
Thanks for the crank offers guys but I have a little bit of an in with the industry so I’m thinking a new one is in my future.
After sleeping on it I’m starting to agree with the devil (and Jay, or are they the same  ;) ) that some cubes would not be a bad thing. That would make it easy to reach my initial goal of 425 hp and later would be a solid base for aluminum heads when I move on from my CJ learning process. In the back of my mind is my brother who has a ‘69 mustang with no motor. It’s a strange car in that the vin says it’s a 351 car but it has reinforced shock towers. I didn’t think 351 cars had that. Can anyone clear that up? It would be nice to build him a CJish engine.
Anyway back to the motor. I’m curious how you guys think the CJ heads will do with say 460 ish cubes (.030/.035 over with a 4.250 stroke).
« Last Edit: September 05, 2020, 07:34:41 AM by turbohunter »
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon