Author Topic: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake  (Read 31275 times)

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scott foxwell

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #150 on: December 24, 2017, 10:06:07 PM »


Scott, I've been working on FE heads for most of my life.  There are FE valvejobs, and there are infinite other ways to make a cutter.  I called it a Chevy valvejob because it looks like widths and angles commonly used on Chevrolet and other aftermarket performance heads.  That stuff seems to work on Chevrolet heads........I just know I have some designs that work better on FE heads.  Some of my junk works on the other stuff, but I created the cutters I use testing only FE heads.  I have several cutters that work for various ideas.  I'd call mine FE cutters, and I call the others Chevy cutters. 


I guess that's the difference between doing "non denominational" induction development and specializing in one design. I've spent days doing nothing but valve job r&d and I know how little and how much difference different valve jobs can make. It's funny...I used my "Chevy" valve job on my "Ford" heads and it seemed to work real well. What's even funnier, I didn't see anywhere on the cutter where it said "Chevy". ;) I also know for a fact that there will be as many different "perfect" valve jobs as there are FE heads, both after market and factory given all the chamber differences. Not one "Ford" valve job. My guess is that teh "Chevy" valve job I use  will work real well on more than one of those heads.
We'll see.

gdaddy01

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #151 on: December 24, 2017, 10:31:21 PM »
seems like a lot of comments on here now sounds like the old fe forum

andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #152 on: December 24, 2017, 11:02:12 PM »
On my 427 build with as recieved BBM heads and a RPM intake the dyno rang up 450 Hp and about 500 Trq.  With hand ported  BBM heads, a proper valve job and Blue Thunder intake it produced 525 Hp and 530 trq.

I do not know how the TFS will compare yet - they are owned by Summit with obviously a huge budget behind the company.  They are cast at the Edelbrock foundry.  My Edelbrock contact says that they provide a raw casting and TFS does all the finish work themselves.  No idea if and where they did their engine testing - it will be interesting to see some results.  I imagine the publicity will come through Summit's magazine relationships - probably see an article in Hot Rod sometime soon with a build at Westech or Grubbs.

I don't think Trick Flow has published any dyno results yet for the FE heads. At least I don't see anything on the website or on the Summit site. It usually takes them a few weeks to update their website with the new info so maybe the testing is done but they just haven't published it yet. I should have dyno results within a few weeks. The short block is finished so we just need to bolt on the top end and sort out the EFI. It is taking some extra time since the build has a number of new parts that have never been used before. I think we'll see around 650 hp with this engine but we'll just have to see.

C8WE

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #153 on: December 25, 2017, 01:18:41 AM »
On my 427 build with as recieved BBM heads and a RPM intake the dyno rang up 450 Hp and about 500 Trq.  With hand ported  BBM heads, a proper valve job and Blue Thunder intake it produced 525 Hp and 530 trq.

A 427 with BBM heads should make more than 450 unless it was a really, really mild build.  The closest to stock one I have done was already around 440ish with a set of unported medium risers, a stock 2x4 intake, and a 282S Comp (folks here know that that is a very mild street/strip cam).  A set of BBM, Survival, or TFS heads will be significantly stronger than that with a 30 or 40 (or 50?) cfm airflow advantage from comparable cross section.

I have flowed a set of BBM heads using the same valves and valve job we use on my stuff.  Although BBM is a competitor - the parts appeared to perform quite well and were in the 290s with just a valve job and quick blend - no porting.  Similar to my own stuff in terms of flow - single digit differences throughout the curve.  I see single four barrel street 445s making 500 pretty often with mine and would expect about the same with BBMs. 

I do not know how the TFS will compare yet - they are owned by Summit with obviously a huge budget behind the company.  They are cast at the Edelbrock foundry.  My Edelbrock contact says that they provide a raw casting and TFS does all the finish work themselves.  No idea if and where they did their engine testing - it will be interesting to see some results.  I imagine the publicity will come through Summit's magazine relationships - probably see an article in Hot Rod sometime soon with a build at Westech or Grubbs.

The 427 has a Comp 280H cam .  The goal was to get as close to a 66 Fairlane 427 with  hydraulic lifters for a little bit more street drive-ability.  The BBM block was really impressive and needed minimal machine work. The heads were ordered afterwards and looked  good upon initial inspection but weren't scrutinized as closely as the block. Unfortunately once the heads were installed problems arose with the as shipped valve job. The exhaust valves were sunk .09 deeper than the intake valves. There were other problems with the seat/head fitment as well.  It was later decided that a light hand port and blend would be needed and at that time 1.725 exhaust valves might help it . New seats were installed  for both the intake and exhaust. The Blue Thunder intake was port matched. With the ported heads and BT intake it rang up the 525/530 #s on the first dyno pull and that was good enough for me. There is still more hp in the engine but the car is a blast to drive so I'm happy with it.

Hopefully the next build, a 462 stroker motor, will like the TFR heads. The goal is to build a torque monster highway cruiser motor for my 69 formal roof Torino.

FWIW I was planing on using a set of real  C8WE heads for the 462 build but now i'm leaning towards building a C8WE 428 68- 69 Torino Fastback Ford Drag Team tribute .
« Last Edit: December 25, 2017, 01:22:14 AM by C8WE »

Richard F

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #154 on: December 25, 2017, 07:47:46 PM »
You split it. 

You cut it with a razor blade and then stretch it over the crankshaft.  Split goes towards the top of the block.
So, are you supposed to cut the real main seal into 2 pieces, or make one cut and bend it to get around the cranks flywheel flange? Either sounds pretty sketchy to me. Most 1 piece seals also use a garter spring on the backside of the seal lip, does this one also have a spring? Personally, I have always believed most FE rear seal leaks to be from the side seals or the cap, not tghe rubber seals, so you would still have that area to deal with, if you did somehow get this "1 piece" seal to fit properly and actually work.

You make one cut and bend it around. 

I agree about the side seals.

Carl Holbrook had a 'stash' of items that were, or had become, hard to get. He had a paper grocery bag half full of 'rawhide' side seals. You soaked them in warm/hot oil and then slid them in place. They'd swell up and did a better job of sealing than anything I ever saw, with the exception of injecting 'Right Stuff'.

KS

I haven't seen those in years. You are right, in my opinion they sealed better than what's available today.  For that matter, rope seals did pretty good too.


andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #155 on: December 26, 2017, 02:44:48 PM »
On my 427 build with as recieved BBM heads and a RPM intake the dyno rang up 450 Hp and about 500 Trq.  With hand ported  BBM heads, a proper valve job and Blue Thunder intake it produced 525 Hp and 530 trq.

I do not know how the TFS will compare yet - they are owned by Summit with obviously a huge budget behind the company.  They are cast at the Edelbrock foundry.  My Edelbrock contact says that they provide a raw casting and TFS does all the finish work themselves.  No idea if and where they did their engine testing - it will be interesting to see some results.  I imagine the publicity will come through Summit's magazine relationships - probably see an article in Hot Rod sometime soon with a build at Westech or Grubbs.

I'll probably submit 3 or 4 articles on these heads over the next year. Not sure if I'll have the first article posted or not but I'll be close. I should have the first one sent in by the end of this week.

plovett

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #156 on: December 27, 2017, 08:20:29 AM »
I'll probably submit 3 or 4 articles on these heads over the next year. Not sure if I'll have the first article posted or not but I'll be close. I should have the first one sent in by the end of this week.

I hope we get to an article on a ported version.  That would be interesting.

andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #157 on: January 03, 2018, 04:50:32 PM »
This 482 is getting closer to being finished. Got the new Cometic intake gaskets today and the port location was off a little bit so we'll try again. These Cometic gaskets are 0.031 thick rather than 0.060 so everything fits a little tighter. The fit was pretty good but the port alignment was off a bit. Once we get the gasket situation sorted out the engine should go together. Should be on the dyno by the end of next week if it all goes smooth.

andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #158 on: January 11, 2018, 08:24:11 PM »

andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #159 on: January 13, 2018, 01:27:01 PM »
The clear covers didn't work out. They aren't long enough to fit over the stands on the Comp rocker arms. And/or the raised rocker stand area on the TF head pushes everything up in the air including the covers. Too bad, I wanted to run a clear cover during the dyno test. I could make one from a valve cover and put a clear top on it but I don't think I will at this point.

justintyme73

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #160 on: January 13, 2018, 09:00:47 PM »
you need to do a 4 way head shoot out,  out of the box Edelbrock, BBM, Survival, Trick flow.  Bolt em all on that motor with everything else the same and see where the chips fall.

thatdarncat

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #161 on: January 13, 2018, 11:25:34 PM »
The clear covers didn't work out. They aren't long enough to fit over the stands on the Comp rocker arms. And/or the raised rocker stand area on the TF head pushes everything up in the air including the covers. Too bad, I wanted to run a clear cover during the dyno test. I could make one from a valve cover and put a clear top on it but I don't think I will at this point.

They make valve cover spacers for FE's to move the valve covers up, I don't know if that will solve the issue, just a thought if you really want to try them. I think most of the FE parts vendors carry them.
Kevin Rolph

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andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #162 on: January 20, 2018, 12:12:33 PM »
We needed 0.020 thick intake gaskets to get the proper alignment. Cometic made us the correct gaskets and they changed the port size on their standard gasket to fit the Trick Flow port shape. So going forward people should be able to order the correct Trick Flow gasket from Cometic.

andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #163 on: January 20, 2018, 12:14:53 PM »
The Trick Flow heads move the rocker shaft up a bit which changes the valve train geometry. One result is that the pushrods might not clear the intake manifold. We had to extend the pushrod slots by roughly 0.100 in the tunnel wedge intake.

andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #164 on: January 20, 2018, 12:19:48 PM »
We also needed special tapered pushrods to clear the bottom of the rocker arms. Smith Bros made the custom pushrods by starting with thick wall 3/8 tubing and then tapering the ends.

So bottom line is if you're going to run a decent amount of lift with the new Trick Flow heads be prepared for some visits to the machine shop.