Author Topic: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake  (Read 96096 times)

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BattlestarGalactic

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #120 on: December 21, 2017, 08:59:43 AM »

If they intend for guys to use solid roller camshafts, then they need to offer an option for T&D race rocker mounting so that guys won't pull the rocker stand studs out of the heads.  If you're over 600 lbs open pressure, you should be eyeballing this too.  I know you said you're going with the Comp Cams rockers, but none of us use those, so there's not a lot of data on them.  I would at least change the helicoils out to big inserts.  Once you pull a rocker stand stud out of the head, you never wanna do it again.

I was questioning a different bolt pattern for like a T/D set up when I was looking at the set at my local shop.  Supposedly they did beef that area up so the threads have more material around them unlike the Ed's which are thin.  It did seem to have a large flat area to mount rockers to.  Will it work?  I suppose someone will have to try and see. 
Larry

Rory428

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #121 on: December 21, 2017, 03:49:15 PM »
You split it. 

You cut it with a razor blade and then stretch it over the crankshaft.  Split goes towards the top of the block.
So, are you supposed to cut the real main seal into 2 pieces, or make one cut and bend it to get around the cranks flywheel flange? Either sounds pretty sketchy to me. Most 1 piece seals also use a garter spring on the backside of the seal lip, does this one also have a spring? Personally, I have always believed most FE rear seal leaks to be from the side seals or the cap, not tghe rubber seals, so you would still have that area to deal with, if you did somehow get this "1 piece" seal to fit properly and actually work.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. 428 Cobra Jet, 4 speed Toploader. 12.54@ 108 MPH

e philpott

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #122 on: December 21, 2017, 04:08:26 PM »
I'm with Rory on the One Piece Main Seal

blykins

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #123 on: December 21, 2017, 06:13:54 PM »
You split it. 

You cut it with a razor blade and then stretch it over the crankshaft.  Split goes towards the top of the block.
So, are you supposed to cut the real main seal into 2 pieces, or make one cut and bend it to get around the cranks flywheel flange? Either sounds pretty sketchy to me. Most 1 piece seals also use a garter spring on the backside of the seal lip, does this one also have a spring? Personally, I have always believed most FE rear seal leaks to be from the side seals or the cap, not tghe rubber seals, so you would still have that area to deal with, if you did somehow get this "1 piece" seal to fit properly and actually work.

You make one cut and bend it around. 

I agree about the side seals.
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andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #124 on: December 21, 2017, 09:11:32 PM »
Pushrods hit the rocker arms at 0.680 lift so this is something to watch for when running a solid roller. Couple of ways to fix it so not a big deal unless you don't look for it and then it could cause major problems.

andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #125 on: December 21, 2017, 09:16:12 PM »
Are there any special intake gaskets that are 0.030 thick? I've looked at all of the "big name" gaskets and they are all 0.060 but I'm guessing that there might be a few small shops that specialize in FE gaskets that I don't know about. Like Superformance Products?

scott foxwell

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #126 on: December 21, 2017, 10:36:05 PM »
Pushrods hit the rocker arms at 0.680 lift so this is something to watch for when running a solid roller. Couple of ways to fix it so not a big deal unless you don't look for it and then it could cause major problems.
First thing to check is geometry. Stands may be too tall.

scott foxwell

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #127 on: December 21, 2017, 10:38:17 PM »
Are there any special intake gaskets that are 0.030 thick? I've looked at all of the "big name" gaskets and they are all 0.060 but I'm guessing that there might be a few small shops that specialize in FE gaskets that I don't know about. Like Superformance Products?
Cometic will make them in several thicknesses. I have .080 on one side and .140 on the other (if I remember correctly).

andyf

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #128 on: December 22, 2017, 12:16:21 AM »
Pushrods hit the rocker arms at 0.680 lift so this is something to watch for when running a solid roller. Couple of ways to fix it so not a big deal unless you don't look for it and then it could cause major problems.
First thing to check is geometry. Stands may be too tall.

Nothing really to check there, it is what it is unless you're going to start machining parts. The rocker arms are bolted right to the head. There are not any spacers or any adjustable parts in the equation. The Trick Flow heads have extra material in that area so it is possible that the Comp rocker arms might handle more lift on a stock head but have an interference issue on the TF head. If that is the case then it could be a problem that people will run into with other rocker arms. Just an FYI for anyone using these parts.

Barry_R

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #129 on: December 22, 2017, 12:34:13 AM »
First thing to check is geometry. Stands may be too tall.

With Scott on this.  Could be your picture - but that rocker looks like its at way more than .650 lift.  What does it look like as far as sweep on the valve tip?  A trip across the Bridgeport coupled with a matching shorter pushrod would possibly gain you a bunch of clearance there.

scott foxwell

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #130 on: December 22, 2017, 08:21:16 AM »
Pushrods hit the rocker arms at 0.680 lift so this is something to watch for when running a solid roller. Couple of ways to fix it so not a big deal unless you don't look for it and then it could cause major problems.
First thing to check is geometry. Stands may be too tall.

Nothing really to check there, it is what it is unless you're going to start machining parts. The rocker arms are bolted right to the head. There are not any spacers or any adjustable parts in the equation. The Trick Flow heads have extra material in that area so it is possible that the Comp rocker arms might handle more lift on a stock head but have an interference issue on the TF head. If that is the case then it could be a problem that people will run into with other rocker arms. Just an FYI for anyone using these parts.
The FYI is this; everything needs checking. It's part of performance engine building. I'd bet a weeks pay that your rocker stands are too tall. Rocker geometry is one of the most critical parts of your engine. My Sharp rockers need a .220" thick shim to get the geometry right on my factory heads and I've confirmed with at least one other person that it's about the same on their Edelbrock heads. If you don't want to go to the trouble of doing it right, don't blame the parts for not being right. You have the option of making fairly simple adjustments which means yes, you might have to machine some parts.

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #131 on: December 22, 2017, 08:42:06 AM »
There is NOTHING on a high performance motor that is a "bolt on".  Rocker geometry is always something you have to work on unless it is a stock head, stock cam and stock rockers.

I have a .08? spacer under my Dove HD rockers on my Ed heads.  2018 will be 21 yrs running the same cam/set up without issue.
Larry

TomP

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #132 on: December 23, 2017, 01:09:35 AM »
That rocker looks like it is tipping open a .900" lift. Is it possible the rocker stand bosses are meant to use short High Riser style stands?  What do they look like with the valve closed?

CaptCobrajet

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #133 on: December 23, 2017, 07:54:23 AM »
Trick Flow assessment:  I received a head the other day.  I gave it a quick look all over, and stuck it on the flowbench. 

Firstly, it is cast at the Edelbrock foundry.  It plainly has the "Ef" cast in inside the valve cover, so it is not a Chinese casting.  It is also not a regular Edelbrock core.  It looks different from the regular Ed and the Pro Port casting.  Survival Edelbrocks still have the external look of an Edelbrock, but these are different.  My guess is that they 3-D printed the external design, and Edelbrock probably made a core box from it. 

They have no thread inserts in the intake flange.....not a big deal usually.  They have helicoils in the rocker mounting....a must-have at minimum.  They have NO inserts in the exhaust flange, which is eventually a problem in my opinion, but part of the reason for the relatively low price.  You get what you pay for.

They have 2.19 and 1.625 valves.  The exhaust port maxed out at 220 on my bench.  Mid-range flow is better than the  out-of-the-box regular Edelbrock, but not spectacular.

The intake port flows very good to .550 lift.  It has what I'd call a "Chevy" valvejob.  A little lazy at .100 and .200 lift.  At .300, I got 227 which is starting to look good.  At .400, it went 268, which is very good for an out-of-the-box test.  At .500, it went right at 300......a very good number for the port size, on my bench.  At .550, 312.....then it went turbulent.  At .600, back to 307 and noisy.  Still, for streetable stuff, the intake port is really pretty good.  As far as the vein in the floor, I am not sure......I only know that I have better ports that don't employ such a thing.  Other than the vein, the whole port looks like a pretty close copy of the LS7 GM cnc head that they sell over the GM parts counter......right down to the "hook" in the bowl behind the valve.  It seems to help in places, but it hooks the wrong way in my opinion, and too abrupt.  I think the hook and a little issue in the short turn are the reason it backs up after .550 lift.  Take out the hook, and fix the short turn, and it will flow more at the big lifts and likely lose in the middle, so I guess it depends on your use whether you would want to change it.

Overall, it seems to be a good part for the money.  The springs are not high-end.  I won't use titanium on street stuff.  Point being....I'd probably buy the cheap spring option, and toss that stuff for better parts.  On visual inspection, the valves appear to be good quality, but I'm not sure they will stand solid roller duty.  That would be a question for Trick Flow to answer.   I don't have much bad to say....I think FE aluminum heads need inserts in the exhaust flange, and I think the hardware is fine for a flat-tappet or hydraulic roller.  The steel retainers are heavy, and the Ti are not a good choice for the street. 
Blair Patrick

cammerfe

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Re: New Trick Flow FE cylinder heads & Intake
« Reply #134 on: December 23, 2017, 10:27:21 AM »
Thanks for your well-thought-out evaluation. I'm curious---why are you against titanium for the street? (I've been using titanium for fifty years.)

KS