My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[TimeWarpF100]

Jason, I and Im sure many others hope this is nowhere near your last post about this great story and engine combo you would have never reached almost 114,000 reads of this if this wasn't true keep up the great work.

Not sure where you got the 114,000 reads its over 400,000 with going on 2000 replies

1994 Replies
413733 Views

[TimeWarpF100]

OK. this may be one of the last posts on this particular forum post, but I wanted to sort of "Round Out" the last issue or 2 from parts in boxes to driving care free!

Over the last few months, I haven't really had the (Courage) time to drive the car.  Mostly because I don't live near by anyone who can help tow me and each time, in the past, I get the car flat-bedded, I get some slack jaw yokum who ends up putting his mark on the car in some sort of damage.  The last doozie was a driver who almost ripped off the front fascia (Saleens are Lowered- So low, you cant get a jack under them).  When I asked him to stop, he told me that "That's why you have insurance and that you should just expect some damage when getting towed!"  Seriously?  Anyway.... that was just one of the 3 or 4 times that tow's have gone bad for me.

But since the weather here has been nice (upper 70's to lower 80's) and the EFI needs mileage in order to learn and run more efficiently, I started to venture out.  10 to 15 miles at a time.  The last time I went out a few weeks ago, it ran beautifully!  No hesitation, no sputtering, no anything!  I let it idle in the driveway to get some heat into the oil.  By that time, the system goes into closed loop and away I go!
The only issue I had (quasi issue) was that at idle, stayed nice and cool.  At highway speed, I was creeping into the 215-220 range.  Just to recap, at the time I had a 16" Pusher fan (2000 CFM) on the drint of the radiator with an aluminum shroud with 2 10" puller fans (about 500 CFM each) and the aftermarket aluminum 3 row radiator.  I ran this issue past Jay and he suggested removing the aluminum shroud and the puller fans and letting it idle in the driveway to make sure the 2000 CFM pusher would keep the engine cool at idle. 

Luckily, after making this "subtraction", the car hit temp at idle of 185 and the ECU turned the fan on and the temp dropped to about 183 and stayed there.  I have the ECU trying to wait for it to drop to 180, but the fan just stays on because it never drops that low.

So with the cooling issue solved, I went for another spin to get a few more miles on the ECU.  Once again, the car drove like a dream except for the Belt squeal that comes and goes randomly.  Its been like this for as long as I can remember and with all of the other Gremlins on this car I have been working through, I really didn't care about belt squeal.....  Figured it was just a really strong engine and maybe the heat under the hood was making it slick?  Dunno...  was just making myself feel better.

I thought this time out I would go a few extra miles and stop at a gas station for a proper fill up rather than with 5 gallon gas cans in the garage!  LOL

The belt started to squeal as I was going 40 in a residential about 1 mile from the station..... and then, as usual, the squeal went away.  Just as I head the squeal stop, I noticed the temp gauge creeping up...  200....  210...  220... 238.

At 238, I shut off the engine and coasted into the gas station!

Got out of the car and ofcourse it sounds like a hot tub party under the hood.  Coolant pouring out.  Popped the hood and there is the belt laying on the bottom spash shield between the engine and radiator.  Snapped!

Long story short, my feared tow truck interaction was soon upon me.  Greatfully, this time I picked an awesome company....  Had aluminum ramps specifically for lowered cars, tie downs don't touch the rims (Rims and tires are brand new and installed on Saturday).  All in all an awesome interaction.  Before he left I got his card and his name and I will feel tons better out and about in the car knowing I can call him to pick me up  LOL

Anyway, back home after Easter Dinner, I wanted to know why.  I decided to test the Pulleys to see if possibly there was a rough edge that was chewing on the bely.  Slowly going all the way around each pulley with my pinkie....  smooth all around.  Lastly I wanted to test pulley alignment.  I used a thin long socket extension and placed it in the water pump pulley.  Holding it at the end, it becomes very secure and doesn't wobble at all.  Spun it around toward the alternator pulley and it was perfectly aligned.  Then it was on to the Water pump Pulley to the Crank Pulley....  Ah Ha!  Slightly off.  It seems that the crank pulley sits a tiny bit proud of the water/alternator pulleys.  Probably just enough to get a screechy belt and slowly eat away at the rubber.  I ordered 2 new belts (keeping a spare in the trunk)....  I ordered some shims for the 3G alternator and also water pump pulley shim kit from Mr. Gasket.  I am going to use a pen laser when shimming the water pump pulley and alternator pulley to make sure I am dead on.  All in all, not that big of a deal and to be sure, this puppy is officially out on the road!

Nearing done? Its got to be the highest view count and replies to any thread on the INTERNET with little to no pics.

How about giving it a polish and now post pics of the car along with that engine bay. Each time you take a trip or drive somewhere take a pic and post up!

In my opinion this thread is just getting started . . .

[cobracammer]

Hey Guys.  In the midst of shimming the pulleys, but measurements are alternator and Water pump pulleys aligned, but their alignment is 0.120" off from Crank pulley.  Water pump shim in now and just awaiting arrival of alternator shims in todays mail.  Unsure, but what is the acceptable tolerance on pulley alignment? ( obviously 0.120" is outside of it!) LOL

[cjshaker]

It's not just offset that matters, but they also need to be parallel to each other, or in other words, no offsetting angles. The alternator is usually a little more forgiving since the pulley has some distance to the crank and water pump pulley. Whereas the water pump pulley is so close to the crank pulley, it allows very little room for flex. I'd agree that .120" is too much (roughly 1/8"). 1/16" between the alternator and crank/pump pulleys would likely not cause any problems, but I'm usually not satisfied until they're pretty much dead even. It just takes some patience and trial and error to get it right.

[cobracammer]

Thanks Doug.  I am using a laser to make sure all are aligned as best as possible.

[preaction]

Jason, how about some updated pics of your progress.

[cobracammer]

Will Do.  I was using Photobucket like many on here and had a fairly quick way of snapping from my iPhone and transferring to get the link.  I will browse some other apps and see if I cant post soon.  I have tried 3 times to get the wife to take a video while I drive, but she refuses to get in it.  I tried various riggings (including tape) on the iphone, but couldn't get it to work.  I will figure something out and get a video too.

[machoneman]

Smart woman you got there! 

[mbrunson427]

Will Do.  I was using Photobucket like many on here and had a fairly quick way of snapping from my iPhone and transferring to get the link.  I will browse some other apps and see if I cant post soon.  I have tried 3 times to get the wife to take a video while I drive, but she refuses to get in it.  I tried various riggings (including tape) on the iphone, but couldn't get it to work.  I will figure something out and get a video too.

Here's a story that's actually very on topic at this point in your thread. I don't know a dang thing about fuel injection so I haven't said a word yet.

My uncle owns an 07' Saleen Extreme, black, looks like yours. I'm kind of the caretaker of the car (quite honestly I'm the only one that washes or waxes any of them). We had some friends in town and I pulled up in that car after washing it, friends wife decided she needed a ride in it. I got fairly sideways in 1st gear, punched it into 2nd and let out, she didn't really say anything.......and after about a minute of her not saying anything I realized that she was in some form of shock. Finally she mustered a sentence and she says "get me out of this stupid car". I felt so terrible, she's a really nice lady.

It's a super fast and very fun car to drive. We took it out to an autocross event a couple summers ago and had a great time. The car is definitely better than the driver.

Just looked through my pictures and actually had one of the car. I think this is what yours looks like? For posting pictures I've been using postimages.org, makes it pretty easy.

[WConley]

... I realized that she was in some form of shock. Finally she mustered a sentence and she says "get me out of this stupid car". I felt so terrible, she's a really nice lady...


[/quote]

My wife and my motorcycle have a tense relationship for the same reason.  Somehow she doesn't understand the joy of dragging foot pegs in the canyons 

[Katz427]

I like to hear those stories! Women typically let you know if the ride is "too exciting" by punching you in the back while on a bike, or punching your arm while winding out the car. Once they start throwing punches, time to back it down.

[Dan859]

Somewhat the same idea.  I'm home last summer, my son, daughter-in-law, and grandkids come up to visit.  Spend a few days together, Sunday comes.  We're getting ready to go to Mass, and I ask the oldest granddaughter if she wants to ride with me in my car.  My car is a 64 Comet with a 650 Hp 482 and a 5 speed.  She looks at me for a second and says, "ut uh, no way!  I am not even getting in that car!!".  It's got exhaust cutouts and it is pretty loud when the exhaust is open, so I don't think too much about it when she said no.  Well, the 5 yr old starts jumping up and down, and she's like, "I will grandpa, I will!!".  I look at my son, and he's like "Just make sure you do up the seatbelt.".  I get her in and belted, back out onto the street, light the tires up in 1st, then again when I hit 2nd.  I look over to see how my Granddaughter is doing, she looks up at me, grinning from ear to ear, and says, "Grandpa, this is just awesome!  I'll ride with you anytime!".  Couldn't keep her out of the car after that.  Grandkids are great!   

[cobracammer]

OK so loaded the car up with the tool box, extra belt, extra coolant hoses, "jug" of coolant, fire-extinguisher, etc.  Wanted to put some more miles on the car and with this weekend being in the 90's temperature wise, I also wanted to see if I can still get away with just the one pusher electric fan and no Shroud/Puller fans.

I start the car and let it idle until I get the car up to operating temperature which is about 170 for this EFI system.  By the way, my idle AFR is still at 13.7  Idles well there, but Anytime I go anywhere near this car while its running, I have to shower afterwards because I reek of Fuel!  LOL  I know I may be able to go a little leaner, but I also read that with the cam overlap, my AFR is probably not completely accurate (?).  Plus richer is safer from what I gather.

The good news is that the belt squeal is gone (for now).  I will see if it comes back later as the previous belt that self destructed was on there since 2014 even with the misalignment.  But no noise mean I was clear for the drive.

Engine has no hesitation or bogging issues at my current AFR /timing settings and throttle response is quick.

One issue I have always had and will work on next is deceleration stalling.  I do not like to downshift if I don't have to.  So I usually like to throw it into neutral and slowly come to a stop before a light or when turning.

It seems that if I am cruising in like 4th or 5th (haven't gotten into 6th yet!) and its at about 2200-2400 RPM's and then I put it in neutral to stop, it usually stays running fine.  The RPM's drop almost instantaneously to 1000 (idle) and the engine stays running.  Only very rarely will I put it into Neutral from 2400 RPM and it will not catch itself at 1000 rpm and will slowly lose RPM's (700, then 500, then stall unless I feather the throttle).

If, however I try downshifting and while in the midst of downshifting I get up to like 2700 to 3000 rpm and then put it in neutral, it almost always will start losing RPM's like stated above and will stall if you don't catch it with the throttle.

In reading, there appears to be a feature or features in the EFI that has to due with returning to idle.  I have been reading on "Loop Rate" (up and down) as well as "Decel RPM Decay" and "Decel IAC Decay"  these last 2 appear to need to be changed together in a ratio of 3:1 if I decide to change.

I was going to call the Tech support people and ask them today as well, but I would assume that because the engine really doesn't have high vacuum, that when I throw it into neutral, it would probably be better if I could slow the rate at which it returned to 1000 RPM.

[Joey120373]

Jason, what you are describing is not uncommon, stalling on deceleration.

Way back in the day some carbs were equipped with "dashpots" to deal with this issue. It was essentially a device that would cushion or slow the throttle blade just before it closed off completely, so that instead of slamming shut, just before it hit the idle stop, it would hit the dashpot and gradually close to idle.

I am not familiar with your exact fuel injection set up, but i would be surprised if it did not allow you to do the same thing with your idle air control (IAC) motor.
The Megasquirts i work with do this. From idle, as you open the throttle, the IAC opens a bit as well and you can program how many steps it will open from its idle state.
It will stay there until the throttle closes back to idle, then it will close back down to its normal idle position some small amount of time later.
How far it opens, as well as how fast it closes back down, are all adjustable. Some times the opening part is called "throttle following".

You can also do a fuel cut on decell, kind of the opposite of accell enrichment.  If you slam the throttle shut, the engine tends to go very rich. You should be able to tell the ECU to turn off the injectors completely to avoid this. There is usually a threshold rpm that will keep the engine from stalling for lack of fuel. I'm explaining this poorly, but if the throttle is closed and the rpm is greater than, say 1500 rpm, turn the injectors off.
once the rpm drops below 1500 rpm, turn them back on. You can play around with the RPM threshold a bit to get the best results.

The only downside to cutting the fuel ( turning the injectors off completely ) under decell  is that it wont do the cool burbly backfire thing i love so much when comming to a stop sign....

[cobracammer]

Thanks Joey.  I think your explanation was pretty good    I understood.

Yes the FiTech has the IAC Decay setting which can quicken or slow down the IAC when you let completely off the throttle at a high RPM like I do.  I was told to change it in increments of "10" when I make the changes.  This weekend I plan on testing it out.  Going positive will slow the IAC rate of closure and going negative will quicken how quickly it closes.  Definitely need to change it toward the positive.

Other than that, the car runs beautiful....although a little rich.  I am going to now start slowly raising the AFR at idle 0.1 per drive to see if I can get it to not smell like I poured gas all over myself.  Doesn't burn fuel (Blue smoke), and exhaust is clear at idle....  but God is it RICH!  I think my Idle AFR is 13.7 but I will change to 13.8.... then see how it drives (and returns to idle while under load) and then if all is ok, I'll go up another 0.1 and repeat.  I think the AFR's on the rest of the spectrum are ok as the car doesn't bog or hesitate.