My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[jmlay]

I did buy it after Halloween...

[cobracammer]

OK, update.  Tried starting the car this morning (a day off from work).  This was the first time I tried to start it since replacing the intake manifold gasket in my search for a vacuum leak that is causing the car to shoot up past 2500 RPM as soon as it lights off.

Sadly....  no effect.  As soon as I pushed the start button, the car revved right up!  I was so frustrated!!!  I called FiTech and spoke to Cody (Cody I am told knows the dual quad power adder system really well).  After talking to him for a bit, he is still adamant that its a vacuum leak.  I mentioned IRM (electrical noise) like the FAST system suffers from, but he said no chance.

I explained to him that there is no way in HECK that intake manifold gasket is leaking.  In addition, the other vacuum ports on the throttle bodies are all capped with snug fitting brand new vacuum caps.  Only vacuum ports being used are:  Small vacuum reference for the Fuel pressure regulator, Small vacuum reference for the Vacuum Gauge, and the slightly larger vacuum reference for the brake booster.

I also explained that before I replaced the intake manifold gasket, I disconnected the brake booster and capped it to test, and it had no effect.  So my thinking is that the brake booster is good.

Throttle body (carb) gaskets are brand new and in mint condition. Carb Studs are all in perfect shape and coated in blue thread locker.  Went into the Fitech computer and verified all of the inputs are correct; Warm Idle is 1000, CI is 482, etc.  Keep being told it must be a pretty heafty leak, but there is no where left to look!  :-/

We verified that the IAC is not stuck as I can cover the whole throttle body (not just the IAC port) and the car keeps on running.  I am at a loss!!!  I can not for the life of me think where this could be leaking from!  All I did was one tiny burn out in the driveway, and this happened.  Other than paying a mobile mechanic to come to the house with a smoke machine (I am not even in the mood to try myself at this point)....  I Dunno.  LOL

[My427stang]

So this is a stumper, however, if it is consistent and EFI related, it is either a significant vacuum leak or a programming issue, or a misdiagnosed IAC.

It could also be an ignition issue, I wouldn't expect it, but any chance your timing changed?  Loose distributor?  Stuck vacuum advance? 

If not, then I would do the following

1 - If possible, adjust both cold and hot idle very low, one at a time, and see if it changes
2 - If possible, unhook the IAC while idling
3 - Go back and readjust the throttle plates and be sure of where you are, as well as looking close at the imprint on the gaskets
4 - If this program requires a reset of the TPS each time you adjust, do so each time you try something.

Get some data and come back.  I find it VERY hard to believe you have an intake gasket leak, but all respect intended, you have had a few loose bolts over the years and having a pipe pulg or a distributor bolt come loose would not be a surprise.  Let us know!

[jayb]

Jason, just to be sure, that plug in the back of the intake manifold is still there, right?  I remember at one point you had not installed that...

[cobracammer]

Hi Jay and Ross.  Happy holidays!!  Distributor is clamped down tight and the plus is indeed there (I remember that one, so I always remember to include that area (read of the intake) when I check.

You guys may find this amusing (as I did after a bit).  After going over all areas again where a possible vacuum leak could happen.... literally for about the 25th time, I called FiTech again.  This time, I got someone new.  Not the usual 3 guys I speak to.  I have to say before I get into this that the usual guys aren't bad.  I actually think they know their stuff.... But as you guys know as you try helping me without being able to see the actual engine, its educated guessing.

So I explain to this new (to me) tech how I resealed the intake manifold, checked all of my vacuum port plugs on the throttle bodies, reset the ECU to the factory tune, etc..etc..etc.  I also explain to him that this all happened after one little "innocent" burn out in the driveway!  The first thing he asks is.... are the throttle blades closed.  I say to him, "yes, I have backed the throttle blade adjustment screws all the way out on both throttle bodies"  I said, "after the screws are backed all the way out, they stay a little cracked, but I was under the impression that this is normal to prevent binding."  He says, "No, if you back the screws off all the way, they should be shut all the way.... no small crack at all!"  I explain to him that I have the throttle adjustment screws backed so far out, that they are almost able to come out!  LOL.  So he thinks for a second and asks me, "You have the throttle linkage removed right?".  I explain to him I don't, but Its not holding it open as its super loose (Lokar) and I can jiggle it all around and the throttle blades don't close any further."  So he explains that its not written in the instructions anywhere (and he doesn't know why not), but when they are testing these units or tuning their own engines with the dual quad set up, you have to do it with the throttle linkage completely removed.  He said it wont make sense, but just do it. 

I go in the garage and give the throttle linkage a little jiggle, and still loose as anything.  At this point I think I am wasting time, but desperate, I disconnect the throttle linkage and put it aside.  As soon as I do, I am able to close the throttle blades all the way.  This guy was right, it makes no sense.  Even if you back the throttle blade adjustment screws all the way out with the linkage attached, there is no way for you to get them closed enough.  As soon as you remove the linkage, it lets you close it the rest of the way.

He said they( and now forever going forward- I) should get the car started, warmed up and the IAC's dialed in before even thinking about hooking up the throttle.....  GREAT TO KNOW this little tid bit that is no where to be found anywhere in any directions / manual.

To give credit, Ross did tell me a few months ago that the throttle blades cracked open in the amount I described was too much, but since I couldn't post the pictures I took on here, I emailed them to FiTech where an unnamed tech emailed me back telling me that they look fine and he believes that they look all the way closed to him.

Anyway, got the car running, got the RPM's back at 1000 Warm and the IAC between 5 and 7 when warm.  After the holidays I will re-dial in the timing (since I'm sure it moved a little since I replaced the intake manifold gasket).  One of the most frustrating issues thus far  LOL

Thank you guys again for hanging in there with me and throwing out ideas!

[My427stang]

Glad you found it.

Are you running any kind of return spring? or just the spring on the FITech linkage?

I do agree it sounds odd, because eventually you will need to hook up the linkage and seems like it will hang up again.  Maybe you just need more return spring

[cobracammer]

Hi Ross,

Yes, I have a separate return spring.  I guess what interests me is how it changed over night after running perfectly (RPM and IAC) for the last few months.  I turn the car on one day and the RPM's shoot up automatically to 3000?  LOL.  I feel a ton better as I know now that there are no vacuum leaks and also that I know how to remedy it.  But as you said, I will now be hooking the linkage back up not that its dialed in (throttle blades), and I am unsure how or when it will change on its own again.

Thanks again and I will keep you posted.

Warm Regards and Happy Holidays!

[cobracammer]

Hey All,

Took the car out today for the first drive since installing the FiTech system.  I have the idle AFR set at 13.7, I have 1100 AFR set to 13.5 and WOT set somewhere in the 12's (I have forgotten but can go back and check).

This is what I experienced.  From the Driveway, in 1st, as I let off the clutch and throttle up, the AFR dips down from Idle (13.7 or there about) and goes as lean as 15's!, then I shift into 2nd, and the AFR richens up and goes back to where it should be roughly.  From 2nd gear through 3rd  (Not a long street-  LOL) it pulls like a freight train and does not appear to be running lean.

Oddly and of mention, when I am going from 1st to 2nd, and I get the lean condition in the 15's, it does not make the lean popping noise I was getting when I ran the FAST efi and did not have the AFR's dialed in enough.

I am thinking Accel Pump needs to be adjusted, but am not sure as it only really happens in between 1st and 2nd.  I also don't know if I should keep driving the car (even with this lean condition) and let the computer learn a bit more.....  longer drives .....  and then screw with the Accel Pump.

Good to drive it again!  Also, by the way, I purchased a fairly stout "Cragar" hood scoop....  tried my hand at primer, paint and clear with a little wet sanding....  didn't turn out half bad.  I also made it functional so I was able to cut open the area under the scoop to let cooler air in (Cooler air being relative here in South Florida).  Dumps right on top of the Air filter!  I can see Air Temp on the controller, so I would be curious what that reads at highway speed (Ill keep an eye out on my next drive).

Any thoughts on the Lean condition would be welcome.  :0)

[jayb]

The engine is going lean because the EFI system is not providing enough fuel under the combination of RPM and manifold vacuum that you are experiencing.  It is on a different part of the fuel map when you are doing the other shifts so apparently it is OK there.  If you had an MS3-Pro EFI system I could tell you exactly what to do to fix it, but with a self learning system like the Fitech I don't know how you would address it, other than just driving the car and letting the system "learn" to make the correction, if it is capable of that.  In any case, though, a brief flash to a lean condition is probably not dangerous for the engine.  I think if it was me I'd drive it for a while and see if it self-corrects - Jay

[machoneman]

As it's running well, I'd drive it (computer learning) a lot....and only afterwards, fool with the pump, fuel pressure, etc.

If btw it running well after the 'learning curve' and some adjustments, thereafter I'd pretty much ignore all the A/F readings and just drive it because....it sounds like your searching for the ultimate readings for all points of the rpm compass. That ain't ever gonna happen! 

[cobracammer]

Thanks Jay and Bob.  Yea I was fairly happy with the run this weekend.  The only difference between the FiTech settings and the old FAST system I had last year was the accel fuel.  With the FAST efi system, I was getting hesitation between 1st and 2nd, so I adjusted the Accel Fuel pump to +1 and then it smoothed it out.

However, with the FiTech (even though I have the ability to adjust the accel fuel (slow throttle) and Fast accel fuel (stomping on the gas), there was only a little hesitation and no popping , which I was surprised since I was seeing 15 to 15.5 to 1 AFR.  I agree and think that driving it a little more will be best.....  what ever problem is "Left over" after the computer learns, I am sure I can adjust out.

Also, BTW, the FiTech system is both a self learning system or manual input system.  It has the feature to shut off self learning and just adjust the tables yourself with a laptop.  I am definitely not at that level yet.  :0)   Thanks again guys

[cobracammer]

OK. this may be one of the last posts on this particular forum post, but I wanted to sort of "Round Out" the last issue or 2 from parts in boxes to driving care free!

Over the last few months, I haven't really had the (Courage) time to drive the car.  Mostly because I don't live near by anyone who can help tow me and each time, in the past, I get the car flat-bedded, I get some slack jaw yokum who ends up putting his mark on the car in some sort of damage.  The last doozie was a driver who almost ripped off the front fascia (Saleens are Lowered- So low, you cant get a jack under them).  When I asked him to stop, he told me that "That's why you have insurance and that you should just expect some damage when getting towed!"  Seriously?  Anyway.... that was just one of the 3 or 4 times that tow's have gone bad for me.

But since the weather here has been nice (upper 70's to lower 80's) and the EFI needs mileage in order to learn and run more efficiently, I started to venture out.  10 to 15 miles at a time.  The last time I went out a few weeks ago, it ran beautifully!  No hesitation, no sputtering, no anything!  I let it idle in the driveway to get some heat into the oil.  By that time, the system goes into closed loop and away I go!
The only issue I had (quasi issue) was that at idle, stayed nice and cool.  At highway speed, I was creeping into the 215-220 range.  Just to recap, at the time I had a 16" Pusher fan (2000 CFM) on the drint of the radiator with an aluminum shroud with 2 10" puller fans (about 500 CFM each) and the aftermarket aluminum 3 row radiator.  I ran this issue past Jay and he suggested removing the aluminum shroud and the puller fans and letting it idle in the driveway to make sure the 2000 CFM pusher would keep the engine cool at idle. 

Luckily, after making this "subtraction", the car hit temp at idle of 185 and the ECU turned the fan on and the temp dropped to about 183 and stayed there.  I have the ECU trying to wait for it to drop to 180, but the fan just stays on because it never drops that low.

So with the cooling issue solved, I went for another spin to get a few more miles on the ECU.  Once again, the car drove like a dream except for the Belt squeal that comes and goes randomly.  Its been like this for as long as I can remember and with all of the other Gremlins on this car I have been working through, I really didn't care about belt squeal.....  Figured it was just a really strong engine and maybe the heat under the hood was making it slick?  Dunno...  was just making myself feel better.

I thought this time out I would go a few extra miles and stop at a gas station for a proper fill up rather than with 5 gallon gas cans in the garage!  LOL

The belt started to squeal as I was going 40 in a residential about 1 mile from the station..... and then, as usual, the squeal went away.  Just as I head the squeal stop, I noticed the temp gauge creeping up...  200....  210...  220... 238.

At 238, I shut off the engine and coasted into the gas station!

Got out of the car and ofcourse it sounds like a hot tub party under the hood.  Coolant pouring out.  Popped the hood and there is the belt laying on the bottom spash shield between the engine and radiator.  Snapped!

Long story short, my feared tow truck interaction was soon upon me.  Greatfully, this time I picked an awesome company....  Had aluminum ramps specifically for lowered cars, tie downs don't touch the rims (Rims and tires are brand new and installed on Saturday).  All in all an awesome interaction.  Before he left I got his card and his name and I will feel tons better out and about in the car knowing I can call him to pick me up  LOL

Anyway, back home after Easter Dinner, I wanted to know why.  I decided to test the Pulleys to see if possibly there was a rough edge that was chewing on the bely.  Slowly going all the way around each pulley with my pinkie....  smooth all around.  Lastly I wanted to test pulley alignment.  I used a thin long socket extension and placed it in the water pump pulley.  Holding it at the end, it becomes very secure and doesn't wobble at all.  Spun it around toward the alternator pulley and it was perfectly aligned.  Then it was on to the Water pump Pulley to the Crank Pulley....  Ah Ha!  Slightly off.  It seems that the crank pulley sits a tiny bit proud of the water/alternator pulleys.  Probably just enough to get a screechy belt and slowly eat away at the rubber.  I ordered 2 new belts (keeping a spare in the trunk)....  I ordered some shims for the 3G alternator and also water pump pulley shim kit from Mr. Gasket.  I am going to use a pen laser when shimming the water pump pulley and alternator pulley to make sure I am dead on.  All in all, not that big of a deal and to be sure, this puppy is officially out on the road!

[preaction]

Jason, I and Im sure many others hope this is nowhere near your last post about this great story and engine combo you would have never reached almost 114,000 reads of this if this wasn't true keep up the great work.

[cjshaker]

First, congrats on finally getting to the end of your project, and being able to enjoy it some!
Second, all the anticipation of reading your thread and all the work you've gone through.....and not a single video of the car being driven, for everyone to see and enjoy, should get you banned

I'll give you a last piece of advice, always carry a few basic necessities in the car with you. I always carry a spare belt, a distributor pick-up, an ignition box, a voltage regulator and the basic tools I'd need to change them. I have a small bag I keep in the trunk to keep it all together and easy to get at. You wouldn't have to carry as much, but a few basics will keep you covered on the main potential trouble pieces.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Thank god.... I was getting near the point where I was gonna start a gofundme page for gas money so I could bring you two 750's and make your car run