My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[My427stang]

Ross -

It could very well have been a top-down cooling system in the stock Mustang that year, but Jason has done up a new radiator (I think!) so it should be back to the old-style FE system.  I didn't pore over the old posts to verify this.

Either way, the bubbles will want to go to the highest point no matter if the coolant is going towards or away from the engine.  You also want to pick the bubbles off the highest hose, or they will tend to get trapped at another high spot.

BTW - Your direct knowledge of these new self-learning EFI systems is very enlightening.  I've been away from that stuff for quite a while!

- Bill

I'm with Bill. Ross, your knowledge of modern EFI systems is great.....I'll know who to ask if I ever dabble in a similar system! Heck, I'll just bring the car and write a check...LOL!

Thanks guys, I like this stuff, like carbs too, glad to help.  I'd love to tune this cammer, how far from Omaha are you?

[cobracammer]

Ft Lauderdale, Florida.... So what...half an hour maybe?  Lol

[My427stang]

Distance, way of life, weather, scenery, all a VERY long way away

[cobracammer]

Ok so coolant tank "degas" tank has to be linked to bottom radiator hose.  It also has a 2nd line that pulls air bubbles from the radiator.

[My427stang]

Ahh, that's very different.  Good pic

Standard flow system, but degas bottle is exactly as the name implies, a second outlet from the top of the radiator being pulled on by the pump from the lower hose.  Any "gas" at the top of the radiator is pulled into the bottle where it is separated from the liquid until it cools

[WConley]

Yup- Very interesting!  The second line from the top of the radiator changes everything.  That should probably work OK with the bottle hooked to the lower hose...

[cobracammer]

The degas tank hooks to the lower hose through a funky stand alone thermostat housing in the Saleen.  Luckily I kept it.  It actually has the 180- degree thermostat that was used in the 4.6 Modular engine I took out.  I may remove the 190 degree thermostat from the water neck and just utilize the thermostat housed in the lover radiator hose fixture.  I would do the reverse, but the thermostat housing only stays watertight because of a rubber O ring that presses against the housing and the thermostat.  If I take out the stock thermostat, the housing wont be water tight anymore.  This should be good though.

Also,  What exactly am I looking for in the Oil filter when I take it apart?  I know there is going to be something in there because it a brand new engine ....  but what's acceptable and what is bad?

Tried looking this up online, but everyone has a different opinion.

[blykins]

Post pics, we can help tell if it's normal or not.  You're gonna get *some* stuff in there, but you're looking for excessive amounts of that stuff. 

[cobracammer]

Will do.

Also, I have been digging and digging for information on this EZ EFI dual quad system.

I got the car running beautifully the other day, but It would not restart.  Now I have talked to 5 FAST techs and have gotten 5 completely different answers on every question I asked.  Somewhere in their tech forum website, there was mention of the 12 V switched power wire.

To job every ones memory, I originally thought this was my issue when the car wouldn't run.  It ended up being fuel pressure and noise on the ground wire (ECU) from the MSD ground to the battery.

After these changes, I got the car running and idling at 1000-1100 RPM.  However after you shut it off, it wouldn't restart.

In this forum, it specifically stated that the 12V switched wire CAN NOT be shared with any other device.  It has to be all by its self on a clean 12 V source.  Now this is one of the questions I asked the FAST techs 5 times with a answers ranging from "yes" that's your issue, to "No Way" would that interfere...  to "Maybe". 

I am just going to go buy 2 cool looking "aircraft" style toggle switched (with the red flip covers) and wire them up individually to the battery.  Clean sources for the FAST ECU.... and while I am at it, a clean source for the MSD 6A box.  I will leave the Transmission lock out solenoid connected where it is currently.  It cant hurt, plus for my luck its probably why the car wont start back up after running.

[jayb]

Glad to see you working through the issues.  If your timing is really at 60 degrees BTDC, I think that is probably the reason why the car won't start back up once it is warm.  You might be able to start an engine cold with that much timing, but not hot.  And it will never run correctly with that much timing.  Somehow you have to get the timing issue addressed.  Additional timing will make the engine want to idle faster; if yours won't idle at lower timing settings, the EFI unit may not know what to do with the inputs its getting.  Too bad you're not closer; if you were I'd come over and pop a couple of Holleys on that engine to get it running correctly, then start the EFI tune from there.

Also glad to see that you are dedicating a line to the 12V switched power on the EFI box, and again I think it would be a real good idea to get one of those MSD capacitors I mentioned earlier, and put one across the main power/ground to the EFI box, and also to the MSD box.  Noise on the input power supply is a common EFI bugaboo...

[cobracammer]

Thanks Jay.

I just wanted to verify....  I tried 2 weekends ago to set "Exact" TDC, but with the piston stop installed, I was able to rotate the engine clockwise with a breaker bar pretty smoothly.....(it took quite some leverage to turn), but was not able to rotate the engine counterclockwise (and yes I had all of the sparkplugs out).  Is this normal?  we tried 2 times to do it, but just loosened the balancer bolt both times.  I am guessing because of all of that Timing chain, and the 2 cams turning against springs, and the tensioner.....not realistic to be able to turn counterclockwise?

I am positive (within 1 to 2 degrees) that I have TDC marked correctly on the balancer now with the tape....  But the first time I had it running, the balancer said 30 degrees BDTC (before I retested TDC) and now that I have TDC re-marked with a new timing tape, I get it running and the Balancer says 60 degrees BTDC.  I did notice that it did not take much of a turn to get that number to fall... but when I did so (and the timing light started to read as low as 30 degrees btdc, the engine sounded bad.

I think with this "Stupid" EFI, I will have to get it running at whatever gets it started....  then because it quickly leans and makes changes by itself, I will have to slowly turn the distributor a bit a at a time in order to get closer and closer to 13 degrees BTDC... each time giving the computer time to learn and even out.

Or find someone with 2 carbs  LOL

[jayb]

I torque the bolt at the end of the crank to 150 foot pounds, which is way over the spec, but I like to make sure that the timing timing gear is pinned by a lot of force to the crank.  One by-product of this is that I can turn the engine backwards without loosening the bolt.  An SOHC is going to be more difficult to turn backwards than a normal pushrod FE, but if that front bolt is tight, you should still be able to do it.

From the sound of it, you are probably very close on TDC anyway.  Even if you are off +/- 5 degrees, you should not be running at 60 degrees BTDC at idle.  Your plan to get the engine running and then slowly back off the timing makes sense; hopefully the FAST box will learn as you make adjustments. 

[Barry_R]

Without going back and finding out (I have followed along but sporadically...) can you tell me which F.A.S.T. controller you are using?  I have run many of the xFI systems with very good results, by my experience with the simpler EZ-EFI systems has been less than stellar.

On a fairly mild single throttle body multi-port system it worked pretty well, but on a couple of IR "Weber style" setups it never really worked properly.  The EZ self learning system lives completely on the feedback from the oxygen sensor.  An oxygen sensor senses "oxygen" (sounds pretty obvious...) not mixture.  Lacking other sensors the EZ-EFI reads a rich misfire as "lean" & then makes the darn thing even richer.  On OE or the XFi systems you can get into the base map & set correction limits that prevent the runaway adjustments from going off the reservation, but the EZ-EFI will keep going until black smoke is boiling out of the pipes.

One other thing to note is that the self learning F.A.S.T. system needs to see 180 degree coolant temperature before it starts correcting on the dyno - you can watch the A/F ratio start swinging once you hit that temp.  The literature I had claimed 160 degrees but it would not move on the dyno until we warmed it up further.  It moves slowly - needs to "park" at a given load & RPM for several seconds before changing, and then it will sweep rich and then lean in decreasing amounts as it homes in on the chosen target A/F ratio.  To get it to develop a VE map we would park it at - for example - 3000 RPM and 40 pounds torque for five minutes, then move to 3500 RPM and 60 pounds, etc - took a looooong time to get a fairly complete map.

[cjshaker]

On a fairly mild single throttle body multi-port system it worked pretty well, but on a couple of IR "Weber style" setups it never really worked properly.  The EZ self learning system lives completely on the feedback from the oxygen sensor.  An oxygen sensor senses "oxygen" (sounds pretty obvious...) not mixture.  Lacking other sensors the EZ-EFI reads a rich misfire as "lean" & then makes the darn thing even richer.  On OE or the XFi systems you can get into the base map & set correction limits that prevent the runaway adjustments from going off the reservation, but the EZ-EFI will keep going until black smoke is boiling out of the pipes.

One other thing to note is that the self learning F.A.S.T. system needs to see 180 degree coolant temperature before it starts correcting on the dyno - you can watch the A/F ratio start swinging once you hit that temp.  The literature I had claimed 160 degrees but it would not move on the dyno until we warmed it up further.  It moves slowly - needs to "park" at a given load & RPM for several seconds before changing, and then it will sweep rich and then lean in decreasing amounts as it homes in on the chosen target A/F ratio.  To get it to develop a VE map we would park it at - for example - 3000 RPM and 40 pounds torque for five minutes, then move to 3500 RPM and 60 pounds, etc - took a looooong time to get a fairly complete map.

That certainly doesn't sound like a good way to break in an engine (not commenting on your engine, Barry, just in general). I think if I were to use any type of system like that, I would be looking at breaking in the engine with a basic carb set-up until it had an hour or so run-in time and everything was looking good. Then I would switch it over to the EFI system. There are just too many crucial things going on during break-in to be running the engine way rich or lean. Just my opinion, and doesn't help the situation here.

[cobracammer]

Unfortunately, its the EZ EFI. What I wouldnt do to return and go with 2 holly double pumpers.