Cleveland or 428?

[410bruce]

Alright guys, I've gotten myself into a mental predicament once again.

Should I go with a 408 Cleveland with factory 4V heads or a TFS headed 428 for my '67 Cougar?
I do this all the time with projects--change my mind on what I want to do.

The 428 is partly done. I have everything to complete the short block. Will need to purchase heads and intake (again, as I sold the TFS and Performer RPM I previously had purchased from Brent,) the compatible rocker stands and rocker assemblies and pushrods. Have a manual transmission flywheel, bell housing and Hooker 6114 headers already. Still need the correct motor mounts.

The Cleveland stuff I will have to purchase from a local guy--a grand for a complete short block and complete 4V closed chamber heads, or $750 for a bare block and the heads.
Will purchase the 408 kit from Brent. Will possibly need to machine the heads for screw-in studs and guide plates--unless a hydraulic flat tappet cam could be utilized with the stock bolt-down rockers--and of course will need new stainless valves and the correct springs and retainers for whatever cam is selected.
Can use all the installation components already in the car--motor mounts, bell housing etc. Will need to purchase a flywheel and headers.

I'm also still wanting to do an engine swap in my '89 F-150 2wd short bed and what the 428 was originally purchased for.
I could install the 428 using factory iron heads and CJ intake I already have and have a torquie, fun driver. Would have to change the transmission, motor mounts etc. but I do have headers that would probably work.

Or...install the Cleveland at stock cubic inch and still have a fun driver. Won't have to change the transmission. Had a 351 4V CJ motor in my old '79 F-100 2wd short bed years ago and it was fun.

Which engine would you put in which rig? The FE would be period correct for the Cougar but of course, neither would be for the truck. I like the idea of the Cleveland in the Cougar because of the ease of maintenance but like the FE because it's correct for the era.

I can either buy the heads for the 428 or the stroker kit for the Cleveland, I can't do both.

Thanks guys.

[turbohunter]

I think we’ve all been in this place Bruce.
Seems to me like you said it yourself in your post.
Small block in the Cougar, FE in the truck.
Those 4v’s are pretty darn cool.
Good luck in your brain tussle.

[410bruce]

Thank you, Marc. Glad to know I'm not alone in my mental gymnastics.     

[jayb]

My brother has a 428 in his 68 Cougar.  Once installed, it really hasn't posed any maintenance problems.  A stock FE is also not that much heavier than a stock Cleveland.  I vote FE in the Cougar.  There is no replacement for displacement 

[410bruce]

Thank you, Jay. 

1 vote for the 428. 

[turbohunter]

LOL Bruce
Just to add to your dilemma I really wasn’t advocating one way or the other. I just brought up what you seemed to be saying in your post.
I know, thanks a lot Marc

BTW I put a 428 in my mustang. The extra bit of weight is no prob with the right springs.

[410bruce]

D'oh! Lol. Okay, Marc, duly noted. I'll change the post to reflect that.

[blykins]

I don't think a factory headed 408C will make the hp that a TFS headed 428 will (without some camshaft) and it for sure won't make the torque. 

[410bruce]

Thank you, Brent.

I'll take that as a roundabout vote for the 428. 

[plovett]

No doubt Jay is being tongue in cheek with his rhyme.  He knows flow is more important than displacement.   Hence his awesome new heads.  Or you could just put a stock 534 Ford in it? 

Either FE or Clevo would be great in your Cougar.  An FE really is tight and spark plug changes and header bolt access are a pain with an FE and stock shock towers.  They are doable, though. 

4V Clevo's can make awesome power thanks to their head flow and the 408 inches would bring the rpm down and make it more streetable.   On the other hand, if you are getting TFS heads for your 428 then the decision does seem more difficult. 

Cutting back the shock towers makes a big difference in a Mustang/Cougar with an FE.  I did it in mine and it was well worth it.  Attaching some pics.  Since you have the engine out........maybe?

Final analyis is this:  If you already have the 428 short block (and you are going to get the good flowing TFS heads)  I say go with that for the Cougar.  Cut the shock towers while the engine bay is open.   And then get a more "trucky" engine for your '89 F150.  Something like a mild 460.  Then tell me where to get the Clevo shortblock and closed chamber 4V heads.   

JMO,

paulie

[410bruce]

Thank you, Paulie.

The 289 is still in the car at this time. I am currently getting it running enough just to move the car around under its own power. The 289 had dropped a valve and the car has been sitting since 1985. It's a complete POS right now and needs tons of rust repair so cutting the shock towers is certainly an option. Unfortunately, I'm no fabricator and would need assistance. However, a good friend who is a welder in a muffler shop and likes to build things said he would install the floor pans and engine bay apron pieces for me. maybe he'd take on the shock towers as well.

I had a 460 in my old '79 F-100 as well--after the 351CJ. It was a whole lotta fun. Ran high 12s with it in the quarter in full street trim. It was pretty impressive for a truck at the time.
I have plenty of 460 stuff laying around, enough to build a fun street engine. Also have a few C6s for the 460 laying around as well.

With how I'm leaning now and all of the input here, I may just shelve the Cleveland idea for now. But, I am thinking I should probably pick up the short block and heads anyway, you know, just in case a future project comes along. 

[Gaugster]

I'll vote for the 428 going in the Cougar. I'm totally biased since I'm a Cougar/FE guy. I can relate to challenges of spark plug access with factory shock towers. I only have manifolds now but hear that headers + power steering (my ride) is another hurtle.

[410bruce]

Thank you, Gaugster. 

[plovett]

And as Jay mentioned an FE is not terribly heavy.   You're already talking aluminum heads and intake, too.  That might be 90 lbs less?  Might as well get an aluminum water pump, and maybe even an aluminum radiator, too?

I bet your friend can do the shock towers.  I don't weld yet, but I helped my buddy do mine.  It wasn't that bad. 

paulie

[plovett]

I had a 460 in my old '79 F-100 as well--after the 351CJ. It was a whole lotta fun. Ran high 12s with it in the quarter in full street trim. It was pretty impressive for a truck at the time.
I have plenty of 460 stuff laying around, enough to build a fun street engine. Also have a few C6s for the 460 laying around as well.

A real "trucky" truck that runs 12's is still impressive today, in my opinion.

pl