'58 Edsel 361 Build and into '54 Ford

[frnkeore]

This is about one of the oldest FE's made. The reason that I wanted it, was because I always wanted to work with one of the early engines, that had machined combustion chambers. I believe they were only made in '58 & '59. My parents got a '58 Citation in '59, when I was 15 and I got my Corsair, when I was 19, the Corsair and Citations, were only MEL engined and I didn't want to work with a MEL. Unlike some, I have always liked the '58 Edsel but, only the '58 so, since I've always loved FE's I went this route. In '58, The 361 was only available in the Ranger and Pacer.

The Citation was the top of the line, the Corsair, was the sporty model of that car and they had a built in 5K tach. Those 2 models, were on the Mercury chassis. The Ranger was the bottom of the line and the Pacer was upscale from it and they were on the Ford chassis. All had the Steering hub mounted, push button trans shifters and they were trouble free, at least, from '59 to '64.

I just got it back from the local machine shop (Keller Motor Supply, Medford OR) I've dealt with him for more than 30 years and he is the best in my area, for precision work. He had to dunk it, over night, twice to get most of the baked on slug off  and it still has small areas that didn't come clean. Hot tanks don't remove rust so, there's lots of it left in the water jackets. I bought it from a forum member at a excellent price and I thank him. I won't say who it is but, if he wants to ID himself, he can

With the slug off, exterior of the casting is fairly crude and inside and out, there are areas that have fairly large cast flash. I don't have pictures of the heads yet, as they are getting seats installed, before coming home. The valves will be 2.09 x 1.65.

This how I want the build to go, I may modify some things but, it will be a 419 ci, with new pistons and crank, in hand, valves on the way. The cam will be HFT of 226 x 233 @ .050, ordered from Howards but, they have notified everyone that they are out/low of cam cores. They only use US cores and this pandemic has hurt them and every other cam maker that use US cores. I'm trying to keep the Static CR, under 10/1 and the dynamic, under 8/1, to run my local 92 octane gas. Haven't decided on whether to go 108, 110 or 112 LSA but, I'm favoring 108 unless it will effect fuel mileage, unfavorably.

Trans will be a stock C6 out of a pickup and I'm trying to get a '62 Galaxie 500 to put it in but, the guy has title issues on it! If not, I'm not sure what it will go in but, my first choice is a '60 Galaxie.

The original pistons, are pretty interesting. I'll post a little on them, too.

I'll try to take lots of pictures, as I go.

[wowens]

Cool build

[FERoadster]

Frank: here is the VIN tag from the car. Found the car in the scrapyard about 16 years ago. I tried to salvage everything from the body.
I did get the entire front end sheet metal but sold that. Rear axle has a 5X5" BP.
Richard >>> FERoadster

[frnkeore]

Thank you, Richard.

[My427stang]

Frank, did you drill for the modern cam retainer plate and timing set?  Easy mod, but best to do before you start assembling

[frnkeore]

Ross, I'm a long, long way from assembling but, yes, Richard gave me a cam retaining plate and aluminum timing cover.

He didn't have a crank spacer, I could use the seal diameter and length of it, to make one of aluminum.

Right now, I'm machining the cap and block for the later thrust bearing diameter.

I have a question, now that I have this block, I see, right from the start, that only the left water inlet has the tear drop shape, that there seams to be no reason for. Anyone know why that inlet is shaped that way?

[My427stang]

Frank, no idea on that quirk of an FE, must have been a reason but I have no idea.

As far as the crank spacers, aftermarket steel spacers are cheap and likely more durable unless you speedi-sleeve the wear surface on an alum spacer.   

[RJP]

I'm not a big fan of the early machined combustion chamber heads simply because there is very little quench area as it is cut away in the machining process. Personally I think there are better iron heads out there. With that said I did run a set on a 427 3 x 2 Holley set up on a centeroiler in my 61 Starliner. Did they work? Yes, they worked ok but IIRC they were timing sensitive, more-so than a head with a cast chamber and a bigger quench pad. Now I don't know if it were the very small quench pad or the difference in a cast or a machined chamber. Would I use a set? Yes, if thats all I had to work with.

[FERoadster]

Frank: looked at about 6 other blocks including another early EDC and most have the teardrop shape including one C4 and one ribbed block. Only 2 blocks had both holes round.  I'll take a look to see if there is a mold pattern, foundry or other way to tell the difference. I'll be in the shop today so I can take a look. Maybe the round holes are from 105 blocks.  I'll post findings.
Also I thought I included a crank sleeve, I've got quite a few and I'll get you a good one. Should be going thru Central Point to look at my 427 sometime in the next 2 weeks.
Richard

Update:  Checked 14 blocks and all have the teardrop water passage in the front bulkhead, the 2 I thought were round still had the gasket on them. So now why the teardrop shape and not a teardrop shaped gasket to match? Frank sorry for Hi-jacking your thread (but you started it (LOL)

[frnkeore]

Richard, you not hi-jacking the thread.

It is a interesting question and a very odd feature. I've always used it as a "for sure" way of IDing a FE, in with a bunch of other blocks and I've often wondered why.

It probably deserves it's own thread, to reach more members, for clues. Could it possibly have anything to do with equaling the flow, between banks?

[Heo]

Could it have something to do with draining the block. you have a tap to drain the block
only on one side so with the dropshape you drain out a tad more on the side without a tap
Just my thought for whats it worth

[blykins]

Frank that early thrust bearing diameter works really well as-is.  I've built some >500 hp road race engines using early blocks and small thrust bearing diameters.  I don't think I'd change it unless it was going in a pulling truck engine where they have to ride the clutch so hard.  If you're just wanting to play, then I understand.

Just as a heads up with the cam thrust plate deal:  the cup plug takes up a lot of real estate when you go to drill/tap those two existing holes for the thrust plate.   The oil feed hole for the distributor gear is back inside the driver's side hole and there's only a couple of threads worth of retainment between the feed hole and the counterbore for the cup plug.  What I do is thread a full bolt in there, then use a center punch through the cam bearing hole and mark the bolt, then use a Dremel and cut a groove in the bolt so that it will pass oil. 



New steel crank spacers are about $40-45. 

No clue on the tear drop water pump hole, I think every FE block I've ever seen (even some aftermarket blocks) has it but just remember that one of the water pump bolt holes and one of the timing cover bolt holes on the passenger side hits water.

The next engine you build, see if you can find someone that has a steel abrating machine instead of a hot tank.   The blocks are baked to get the old paint and grease off and then they are tumbled and hit with steel shot.  Here's how they look when they come out (this one has been machined too):

[frnkeore]

Thanks for the tips guy's.

RJP, how much did the timing change on the machined heads?

Brent, I wish there was a way to clean the water jackets, here locally. I do know the process you speak of, isn't available, in my area. Regarding the cam bolt, as a machinist, my idea is to drill the bolt, relieve the threads, in the passage area and then cross drill to the hole in the center. Kinda like the cam bearings journals are done.

Another question I have is, is there any reason to not restrict the oil to the heads at the block, below the heads? I can't think of one.

[blykins]

Brent, I wish there was a way to clean the water jackets, here locally. I do know the process you speak of, isn't available, in my area. Regarding the cam bolt, as a machinist, my idea is to drill the bolt, relieve the threads, in the passage area and then cross drill to the hole in the center. Kinda like the cam bearings journals are done.

Another question I have is, is there any reason to not restrict the oil to the heads at the block, below the heads? I can't think of one.

Not totally following you on the thrust plate bolt, but just as long as you know what you're up against, you can come up with something.



The only con to restricting the oil at the deck is that if something happens and you change rocker arms, change setups, find that you need more/less oil etc., you'd have to pull the heads to change the restrictors. 

I always oil through the pushrods when given the option, but if you're oiling through the heads, then IMO it's best to restrict it right at the rocker stand opening.  It's very easy to drill and tap the head feed and then just drill an orifice in a set screw. 

[frnkeore]

Brent, imagine your ground slot, being a 1/8" hole in the middle of the bolt and at the end of the slot, a thread relief, matching the hole to the cam bearing and then another 1/8" hole into the center hole.