CJ love

[Gregwill16]

Marc the reinforced shock towers was big block only, from the factory. I think the Boss 302 had them as well. Very well could have been added in the past or more to the story.

[WConley]

Marc -  If it was me I'd go with the devil.  You'll pick up boatloads of torque on the bottom end. 

The added displacement also lets you run a bigger cam and still get velocity in the ports / good idle manners.  The stock heads will need a good plan for cam, compression, and ignition timing if you want to run pump gas.  (Here's where the bigger cam helps too by bleeding dynamic compression ratio.)  The guys here could certainly point you in the right direction for the future aluminum heads.

My philosophy has always been to use the best stuff, that covers the widest range of future possibilities, when you've got the thing apart.  It's such a pain to do it again!

[turbohunter]

Thank you Bill and Greg. Bill that’s where I was go in with the good base of parts. And why I’m going with new. I did not think of being able to go bigger cam and the idle characteristics. Thank you. The gent that rebuilt my heads was talking about a limit of .580 lift with the current set up. Of course springs can change out, that’s not a big deal.

[67xr7cat]

Thanks for the crank offers guys but I have a little bit of an in with the industry so I’m thinking a new one is in my future.
After sleeping on it I’m starting to agree with the devil (and Jay, or are they the same  ) that some cubes would not be a bad thing. That would make it easy to reach my initial goal of 425 hp and later would be a solid base for aluminum heads when I move on from my CJ learning process. In the back of my mind is my brother who has a ‘69 mustang with no motor. It’s a strange car in that the vin says it’s a 351 car but it has reinforced shock towers. I didn’t think 351 cars had that. Can anyone clear that up? It would be nice to build him a CJish engine.
Anyway back to the motor. I’m curious how you guys think the CJ heads will do with say 460 ish cubes (.030/.035 over with a 4.250 stroke).

The reinforced shock towers started showing up in 1968 want to say around mid year on BB cars. On 69/70 you will find them on B302, 351, and BB cars.  Most 351 cars have the reinforced, but not always, guess depended on parts on hard.  There is a 68 Cougar, original 390 car that was well documented that had one of each!

[turbohunter]

Cool, thank you.

[Heo]

Thanks for the crank offers guys but I have a little bit of an in with the industry so I’m thinking a new one is in my future.
After sleeping on it I’m starting to agree with the devil (and Jay, or are they the same  ) that some cubes would not be a bad thing. That would make it easy to reach my initial goal of 425 hp and later would be a solid base for aluminum heads when I move on from my CJ learning process. In the back of my mind is my brother who has a ‘69 mustang with no motor. It’s a strange car in that the vin says it’s a 351 car but it has reinforced shock towers. I didn’t think 351 cars had that. Can anyone clear that up? It would be nice to build him a CJish engine.
Anyway back to the motor. I’m curious how you guys think the CJ heads will do with say 460 ish cubes (.030/.035 over with a 4.250 stroke).

The reinforced shock towers started showing up in 1968 want to say around mid year on BB cars. On 69/70 you will find them on B302, 351, and BB cars.  Most 351 cars have the reinforced, but not always, guess depended on parts on hard.  There is a 68 Cougar, original 390 car that was well documented that had one of each!

I have done bodywork on a lot of Mustangs through the years. Saw at least one with one of eash, some with two  torque boxes
some with one althoug they was coupes, different export braces two piece and one piece, one piece have brackets welded to the
shock towers. one 70 Mach one with Swedish Stil Autoliv three point rollup seatbelts with fomoco cast on them and Ford partnr
Mustangs are full of surprices

[cjshaker]

The reinforced shock towers started showing up in 1968 want to say around mid year on BB cars. On 69/70 you will find them on B302, 351, and BB cars.  Most 351 cars have the reinforced, but not always, guess depended on parts on hard.  There is a 68 Cougar, original 390 car that was well documented that had one of each!

Not sure where that info comes from, but I have never seen reinforced shock towers on a '69 351 Mustang, and I've seen quite a few. Same goes for '70s. There are several '69 351 Mach 1's in my area currently, and none have them. My buddies '70 351 Cleveland Mach 1 does not have them. My old M code '69 Mach didn't have them either.

[cattleFEeder]

My 70 351C cougar eliminator has them.

[67xr7cat]

My 70 351C cougar eliminator has them.

I am a Cougar guy so maybe the Mustang being cheaper why bother LOL

This is all well known information and can be traced back to books used to judge these cars in concours classes.  Just because you have not seen one, does not mean they do not exist. I have seen plenty, so perhaps you need to see more cars.

Again Ford was not consistent on this and depended on what was on hand is the common belief.  The 351 seen them both ways. Have been told depended on options like of it had the comp suspension, A/C etc... but honestly never looked into it that far.  If you are really interested contact the guys that do concours judging.  Btw some cars also came with stock type towers that were welded. That supposed to have started around Dec 67, and the re-inforced wrap around towers around April 68.  Been around Cougars over 40 years, and used to judge some concours classes back in the 80-90's so what I know is from those guys who honestly are way too nuts about this original stuff and why I stopped doing it.

Heo, the 2nd torque box started for the 1968 model year, at least for the Cougar which was only a coupe in 67/68.  The one piece shock tower brace was used on shelby and cars to be exported. Guess why a lot of guys call it the export brace.,

[Heo]

In Sweden we have a mix of  new sold and later imports. Most of them
have a hard life behind them with crashes several, engineswaps etc
So what was there from the beginning is hard to say

[67xr7cat]

In Sweden we have a mix of  new sold and later imports. Most of them
have a hard life behind them with crashes several, engineswaps etc
So what was there from the beginning is hard to say

Hi Heo, for sure these cars are 50 y/o and a lot can happen.  Funny story, was a 67 Cougar XR-7 bought new and moth balled until the guy died.  Guy who worked for him bought it in the late 90's in around 2004 the CCOA was allowed ot look at the car.  Car had something like 2 miles on it. the history of the car well documented and know to be the real deal. Anyway after looking the car over they did a report in the CCOA newsletter. They noted that by the mfg date the radiator hoses should have used worm screw clamps.  While this car had an upper rad hose that had one worm screw clamp and one band clamp type and that maybe they need to change the concours judging book.  Bottom line Ford was making cars! keep the lines running rule of the day!

[turbohunter]

Got the sonic test back.
It’s the best one I’ve ever had. Your results may vary

[jayb]

Dude - bad news on the sonic check.  Those numbers are way off.  Bore spacing on the FE is 4.630".  Factor bore for the 428 is 4.130".  This leaves 0.500" spacing from bore to bore on the 428.  Looking at your map for one example, the middle numbers between cylinders 1 and 2 are .228" and .230", total of .458".  That means that there would be only .042" between the outside of the bores.  That never happens.  Look through the frost plug hole between cylinders 1 and 2, and observe the gap between the cylinders.  Stick a drill bit in there, and find the largest one that will fit.  Subtract the drill bit diameter from 0.500" and that will give you an idea of how much material thickness you have for cylinders 1 and 2 combined, at that point.

That sonic checker was badly out of calibration...

[turbohunter]

Running over there with bits in hand

[WConley]

Yeah, Jay beat me to it.  Even in my oxycontin-induced haze, those numbers seemed WAY off. 

I threw out my back a few days ago working on the house    The pain got bad enough that I have to break out the big guns.  It will pass, but life is not fun right now.  Jay - you might get a few amusing FEA studies out of me right now!!

Marc - Have him check the thickness of a China wall with his probe.  Hopefully he's using a proper curved probe as well.  You never know what people try to pass off these days.