Author Topic: Edelbrock fuel injection install  (Read 11438 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
    • View Profile
Edelbrock fuel injection install
« on: July 09, 2020, 04:27:20 PM »
Well, I have some free time and thought I'd start a thread and maybe keep it going through completion of the swap on my F100.  So far I would summarize the Edelbrock EFI Pro Flo 4 as a "nice small block Chevy system" delivered with a Ford intake and distributor.  I don't have a lot of love for Edelbrock, but if it runs well, the pain will subside :)

And no, it's not running yet LOL

This is going on my 490 HP all iron 461 in the dyno section, in my 71 F100 short box 4x4.   I am keeping the in cab tank, but modifying it for a full 3/8 feed and return.  Originally it was 5/16 feed and no return.  The system has full timing control, fan control, and sells as a bolt-on kit...but you'll see, so far it's not really that

Some info so far

1 - The Victor needs to be worked.  At least port matched, have to add a bung for the coolant temp sensor, and add a PCV port if you don't want hoses coming from the front.  Pushrod clearances are tight, but did not require any machining, nor did the mating surfaces on a 10.160 block with .053 head gasket and .010 cut heads.

2 - The throttle body looks very nice, but there are very limited places to put a throttle ball, and the arm is hardened.  I got through it eventually with a combination of bits and stones, but they could have poked a couple extra holes

3 -  The injector wiring harness is OK, and labelled nicely, but it is likely the only wiring harness that is sized correctly for a big block with a distributor in the front, and very difficult to make look pretty.  I eventually ran it under the intake to hide it

4 - The distributor harness is unusable without modification, it is designed for a coil and distributor out back, a la Chevy, and is therefore dramatically too short.  I am considering hiding a coil out back and making a 3-pin weatherpack extension for the distributor, as the parts have to be located back there to mate up with the injector harness.

5 - The ECM harness seems to be long enough to mount in the bed, when I get the other harnesses where I want them, I will determine what I need to do with that bundle of snakes :)

6 - The new distributor is pretty nice, clearly MSD, but comes with a melonized gear which means it would need to be changed with a hyd roller.

7 - The fuel system is a bit funky, of course it doesn't come with one, but it talks about being pulse width modulation-capable for pump pressure, but it isn't.  It is also a dead-head system, which means one regulated line to one rail feeding, which then feeds the second rail capped by a plug, where I prefer to feed through the two rails and regulate the backside.  The word on the street is that my way is overkill, and this is how the OEM does it, so I am going to give it a shot.  It does make plumbing easier, but on a bigger HP machine, I'd likely feed it differently.

8 - It requires a fuel pump relay, which Edelbrock sells a plug in kit for 134.00  :o  It doesn't come in the kit and as delivered can only handle a 10 amp pump (most are 20+) so I bought a Painless Wiring kit will adapt.  By the way, it is also switched by ground not hot, so you need to have compatible relay.  It's cheap enough at 40 bucks, but it would have been so much easier for Edelbrock to provide it.  Sort of ridiculous

9 - All the fuel system is designed to come off the Chevy side (pass side) which will look neat when done as my drives side was getting crowded, but sort of burns my butt, again, Chevy kit with a Ford intake LOL 

In the end, as I said, if it works well, I will forget the pain, but I have said to myself MANY times, converting to a med riser dual quad would have been cheaper and done by now :)

I expect with the modifications and required fuel parts, the 1500-1700 dollar EFI will end up around 2500-2800 when complete.  At this point, I would likely not recommend it to a beginner, but if it runs really well, maybe I will grow to love it and recommend to someone who wants to swear a little  :)

Doing this in between builds, so updates likely slow, but more to come!


---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

turbohunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2509
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2020, 05:08:50 PM »
Cool, been waiting for you attack this.
Very interested.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


HarleyJack17

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 271
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2020, 01:26:54 PM »
Sad to hear they did not engineer it to fit a Ford even though that is what it is for. Not surprised. The no relay is icing on the cake though. Good luck with it. It looks sharp anyway.

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 09:23:43 AM »
Considering the PF4 kit for a SBF with 35lb injectors.  This thread is really insightful about the installation issues to be expected.  The alternative would be a Sniper on a Victor Jr intake.  I have a Sniper on my 445 and it seems to run well, but I'm looking to try sequential for this build.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

Kirk Morgan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2020, 06:27:58 PM »
I have a Big Stuff3 if you are interested that came off of a small block Ford. I have installed many Fast Easy EFI units and i have always installed a return line with no problems at all. I have installed them with computer controlled timing and without. I must say it was worth the extra expense to use the computer controlled timing function. I did find out it took more refinement and computer control learn time to learn the settings when the engine vacuum was below 11 inches at idle.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2020, 07:02:00 AM »
I have a Big Stuff3 if you are interested that came off of a small block Ford. I have installed many Fast Easy EFI units and i have always installed a return line with no problems at all. I have installed them with computer controlled timing and without. I must say it was worth the extra expense to use the computer controlled timing function. I did find out it took more refinement and computer control learn time to learn the settings when the engine vacuum was below 11 inches at idle.

The Edelbrock is frustrating because of the harness design, we'll see how the programming works, I can't imagine it's Edelbrocks own.  Must be one of the big names. The point is that the kit seems as inexpensive as the throttle body systems, but really isn't.  It is nice that it has Bluetooth monitoring and programming and ignition control, so we'll see how it works. I expect well, I just tend to be very fussy with wiring, so it's frustrating to have to cut apart a kit.

Also, just to be clear, I install EVERY one with a return system, Edelbrock included, although this one was a bit more involved with an in cab tank.  There is no way not to, you'd burn out a pump, unless you went with voltage control (which was another odd comment, advertised it does it, but doesn't), and even then seems returnless seems sketchy to me.  The deadhead comment was that Edelbrock recommends the pump and return circuit to come off the regulator before the rails, with a single pressure line to the rails  I haven't done them that way, as I always looked to have the regulator on the return after the rails. We'll see, makes for less plumbing to the engine, but doesn't save a lot overall

I generally route it:

supply>>rail 1>>>crossover>>>rail 2>>regulator>>return

Edelbrock uses

supply>>>regulator>>return
                               >>single line to rail 1>>>crossover>>>rail 2>>plugged

Programming should be easy enough for this one, only 490 hp @ 5000, and pulls 16 inches at idle.  It's mellow, but really hauls the mail in a shortbox F100 4x4

Yesterday was fuel line day, I would take pictures, but I was only partially successful, ran out of parts.  I will say NiCopp line is nice, but not sure there is a big benefit over aluminum for fuel systems.  I am sticking with it, but fought some flare splitting, kinked one after screwing up a long compound bend (these lines are 68-72 inches long with 7-8 bends in them) In the end, to me it's like aluminum with a higher price tag LOL.  That being said, it looks real nice, and I will stick with it so the whole system matches.  I need to get another roll, and will take some pictures when it's partially assembled
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2020, 07:40:11 AM »
I'm with you on the regulatory placement.  I can't imagine why you woudn't want the fuel circulating through the rails before it heads back to the tank. 
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2020, 10:30:46 AM »
The instructions read "DISTRIBUTOR CONNECTION - Connect the 3-pin connector on the distributor to the Pro-Flo 4 #37-1634 Coil/IAC sub harness connector labeled DISTRIBUTOR. Ford and some Chrysler applications with distributor located at front of engine will use the provided distributor extension harness."

Did your kit come with the mentioned harness extension?
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2020, 05:36:52 PM »
The instructions read "DISTRIBUTOR CONNECTION - Connect the 3-pin connector on the distributor to the Pro-Flo 4 #37-1634 Coil/IAC sub harness connector labeled DISTRIBUTOR. Ford and some Chrysler applications with distributor located at front of engine will use the provided distributor extension harness."

Did your kit come with the mentioned harness extension?

No and my instructions don't say that.  I already made a 3-pin Weatherpack jumper harness, regardless, the coil wires have to be extended as well.  So even with the extender, the coil wires would need to be lengthened, another small issue, but I guess if Edelbrock doesn't provide a coil mounting boss on the Victor, there is no reason to give you enough wire to a specific coil mount. :) 

I am not having any issues with the install, or posting looking for help, just working it on the side and reporting back in case someone else decides to go this route.



---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2020, 08:15:14 PM »
Ross, thanks for the response.  Wasn't intending to try to fix something, was just curious after reading the latest online installation instructions. 
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2020, 07:03:00 AM »
Ross, thanks for the response.  Wasn't intending to try to fix something, was just curious after reading the latest online installation instructions.

I didn't mean to sound like I was jabbing at you, I appreciate the interest. This system does look really nice, but it's a bit more clumsy that I would expect.  That being said, it cou'd also be from hanging over the radiator support of a lifted truck, which never helps either :)
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2020, 06:33:40 PM »
So talking to Tommy T today, he mentioned this was the longest EFI install EVER...which is probably right, because I am putting it second, third, 4th, who knows to everything else.

However, today I got it running!  I ran all jumpers and temporary hook up because I decided to mount the ECM under the dash and figured I better make sure it runs first

I'll post a video and some pictures later but some lessons learned and info

1 - Edelbrock sent me the distributor extension harness, no questions asked, and fast too, I appreciated it very much

2 - The fuel pump relay took some thinking.  Normally, 1/2 of the relay is grounded, however, the Edelbrock shuts the pump off and on using a ground, easy enough, I wired continuous 12V through the 12V side, through an impact switch, and then isolated the ground wire and hooked it to the Edelbrock shut off wire.  Worked slick

3 - I wound the 3 inch mandrel bet pipe in through the frame so tightly, that I had to pull the entire exhaust off.  Added some work, but we got it.  I couldn't get at a pipe to put an O2 sensor otherwise (unless I pointed it straight down LOL)

4 - I turned the key, and WHAM, ran like shit LOL.  Did some diagnostics and saw odd lack of numbers from the Intake Air Sensor and O2 sensor  This made NO sense, because the intake air sensor was safely still in the Edelbrock box ...how could it be giving bad numbers?  LOL....plugged it in hung it over the throttle body for some air flow and man it ran nice after that, O2 sensor readings came right in

I intiially set it up with the wizard, and it did just fine, but the cam specs, cid and compression wanted me to run it at 58 psi and the "wild" cam program.  Ran fine, but needed tweaking.  After getting it close, the system told me I was idling at 15 inches of vacuum, so I lied to the wizard, and put "medium" cam in. Which really for a 230/236 @ .050 on 112, is medium...this instructed a corresponding reduction in fuel pressure from 58 to 43, quieted the pump down and the program says will support up to  550 HP (motor is 490-ish )  It really liked the different program, so I let it chug away for an hour on learn, and it sounded great. 

Initial at crank is 12 BTDC, I adjusted the idle to be 18 BTDC, and max total at 38 at 2700.  Can't drive it yet, but the program on the bluetooth tablet is super easy and works across the garage.  It has all kinds of options for vacuum advance, tip in fuel, cold start, looks to be pretty well thought out

Suprisingly, the engine actually has a little more lope than it did, at least the sound out of the exhaust.  It idles smoother but you can hear it firing nicely out of the pipes.  I am pretty happy so far

Game plan is to button up the install over the weekend, then start road testing and see what it does.  So far, I expect it to work pretty well, but we'll see when it's trying to make things happen
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2020, 08:51:53 PM »
Thanks for the update!  Good to see you got it running.  Looking forward to the road test.  I have a PF4 ordered for my 363, so will be good to learn from your installation.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2020, 07:47:35 AM »
Thanks for the update!  Good to see you got it running.  Looking forward to the road test.  I have a PF4 ordered for my 363, so will be good to learn from your installation.

I will post here, tried to check cold start last night (70 degrees or so) and the starter was hanging up.  Could be a backfeed from the 12V source I got, need to check, also throttle was extremely twitchy, almost hard to pull it forward into it's spot for the night.

More to come, need to wire it permanently and start playing
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3929
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2020, 06:06:45 PM »
So first, please realize the rat's nest of wires is because this was a pre-fire before I cut into the cowl, I then said, why not zip tie everything to go for a ride? Then it started pouring.

Anyway, seems to be running great, I need to find a quieter fuel pump.  The Deatchswerks 350iL, which is supposed to be a very good pump, sure isn't a quiet pump...in fact, it's worse than a Holley Blue!

Regardless, not much narration other than whining about the pump, but some sound and some flipping through the Bluetooth Controller, seems like a fun little EFI kit so far.  Throttle seems very responsive, but I will know tomorrow

https://youtu.be/bmVY8NeWJgU

As a recap, 461 inch FE, ported D2s flowing 277 cfm, port matched and plenum work on the Victor EFI, 230/236 @ .050 112 LSA on 106, 9.75:1. 490 HP on a dyno carb and no tuning

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=8110.0



---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch