Author Topic: Edelbrock fuel injection install  (Read 11379 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Edelbrock fuel injection install
« on: July 09, 2020, 04:27:20 PM »
Well, I have some free time and thought I'd start a thread and maybe keep it going through completion of the swap on my F100.  So far I would summarize the Edelbrock EFI Pro Flo 4 as a "nice small block Chevy system" delivered with a Ford intake and distributor.  I don't have a lot of love for Edelbrock, but if it runs well, the pain will subside :)

And no, it's not running yet LOL

This is going on my 490 HP all iron 461 in the dyno section, in my 71 F100 short box 4x4.   I am keeping the in cab tank, but modifying it for a full 3/8 feed and return.  Originally it was 5/16 feed and no return.  The system has full timing control, fan control, and sells as a bolt-on kit...but you'll see, so far it's not really that

Some info so far

1 - The Victor needs to be worked.  At least port matched, have to add a bung for the coolant temp sensor, and add a PCV port if you don't want hoses coming from the front.  Pushrod clearances are tight, but did not require any machining, nor did the mating surfaces on a 10.160 block with .053 head gasket and .010 cut heads.

2 - The throttle body looks very nice, but there are very limited places to put a throttle ball, and the arm is hardened.  I got through it eventually with a combination of bits and stones, but they could have poked a couple extra holes

3 -  The injector wiring harness is OK, and labelled nicely, but it is likely the only wiring harness that is sized correctly for a big block with a distributor in the front, and very difficult to make look pretty.  I eventually ran it under the intake to hide it

4 - The distributor harness is unusable without modification, it is designed for a coil and distributor out back, a la Chevy, and is therefore dramatically too short.  I am considering hiding a coil out back and making a 3-pin weatherpack extension for the distributor, as the parts have to be located back there to mate up with the injector harness.

5 - The ECM harness seems to be long enough to mount in the bed, when I get the other harnesses where I want them, I will determine what I need to do with that bundle of snakes :)

6 - The new distributor is pretty nice, clearly MSD, but comes with a melonized gear which means it would need to be changed with a hyd roller.

7 - The fuel system is a bit funky, of course it doesn't come with one, but it talks about being pulse width modulation-capable for pump pressure, but it isn't.  It is also a dead-head system, which means one regulated line to one rail feeding, which then feeds the second rail capped by a plug, where I prefer to feed through the two rails and regulate the backside.  The word on the street is that my way is overkill, and this is how the OEM does it, so I am going to give it a shot.  It does make plumbing easier, but on a bigger HP machine, I'd likely feed it differently.

8 - It requires a fuel pump relay, which Edelbrock sells a plug in kit for 134.00  :o  It doesn't come in the kit and as delivered can only handle a 10 amp pump (most are 20+) so I bought a Painless Wiring kit will adapt.  By the way, it is also switched by ground not hot, so you need to have compatible relay.  It's cheap enough at 40 bucks, but it would have been so much easier for Edelbrock to provide it.  Sort of ridiculous

9 - All the fuel system is designed to come off the Chevy side (pass side) which will look neat when done as my drives side was getting crowded, but sort of burns my butt, again, Chevy kit with a Ford intake LOL 

In the end, as I said, if it works well, I will forget the pain, but I have said to myself MANY times, converting to a med riser dual quad would have been cheaper and done by now :)

I expect with the modifications and required fuel parts, the 1500-1700 dollar EFI will end up around 2500-2800 when complete.  At this point, I would likely not recommend it to a beginner, but if it runs really well, maybe I will grow to love it and recommend to someone who wants to swear a little  :)

Doing this in between builds, so updates likely slow, but more to come!


---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

turbohunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2509
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2020, 05:08:50 PM »
Cool, been waiting for you attack this.
Very interested.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


HarleyJack17

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #2 on: July 10, 2020, 01:26:54 PM »
Sad to hear they did not engineer it to fit a Ford even though that is what it is for. Not surprised. The no relay is icing on the cake though. Good luck with it. It looks sharp anyway.

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2020, 09:23:43 AM »
Considering the PF4 kit for a SBF with 35lb injectors.  This thread is really insightful about the installation issues to be expected.  The alternative would be a Sniper on a Victor Jr intake.  I have a Sniper on my 445 and it seems to run well, but I'm looking to try sequential for this build.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

Kirk Morgan

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 43
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2020, 06:27:58 PM »
I have a Big Stuff3 if you are interested that came off of a small block Ford. I have installed many Fast Easy EFI units and i have always installed a return line with no problems at all. I have installed them with computer controlled timing and without. I must say it was worth the extra expense to use the computer controlled timing function. I did find out it took more refinement and computer control learn time to learn the settings when the engine vacuum was below 11 inches at idle.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #5 on: July 12, 2020, 07:02:00 AM »
I have a Big Stuff3 if you are interested that came off of a small block Ford. I have installed many Fast Easy EFI units and i have always installed a return line with no problems at all. I have installed them with computer controlled timing and without. I must say it was worth the extra expense to use the computer controlled timing function. I did find out it took more refinement and computer control learn time to learn the settings when the engine vacuum was below 11 inches at idle.

The Edelbrock is frustrating because of the harness design, we'll see how the programming works, I can't imagine it's Edelbrocks own.  Must be one of the big names. The point is that the kit seems as inexpensive as the throttle body systems, but really isn't.  It is nice that it has Bluetooth monitoring and programming and ignition control, so we'll see how it works. I expect well, I just tend to be very fussy with wiring, so it's frustrating to have to cut apart a kit.

Also, just to be clear, I install EVERY one with a return system, Edelbrock included, although this one was a bit more involved with an in cab tank.  There is no way not to, you'd burn out a pump, unless you went with voltage control (which was another odd comment, advertised it does it, but doesn't), and even then seems returnless seems sketchy to me.  The deadhead comment was that Edelbrock recommends the pump and return circuit to come off the regulator before the rails, with a single pressure line to the rails  I haven't done them that way, as I always looked to have the regulator on the return after the rails. We'll see, makes for less plumbing to the engine, but doesn't save a lot overall

I generally route it:

supply>>rail 1>>>crossover>>>rail 2>>regulator>>return

Edelbrock uses

supply>>>regulator>>return
                               >>single line to rail 1>>>crossover>>>rail 2>>plugged

Programming should be easy enough for this one, only 490 hp @ 5000, and pulls 16 inches at idle.  It's mellow, but really hauls the mail in a shortbox F100 4x4

Yesterday was fuel line day, I would take pictures, but I was only partially successful, ran out of parts.  I will say NiCopp line is nice, but not sure there is a big benefit over aluminum for fuel systems.  I am sticking with it, but fought some flare splitting, kinked one after screwing up a long compound bend (these lines are 68-72 inches long with 7-8 bends in them) In the end, to me it's like aluminum with a higher price tag LOL.  That being said, it looks real nice, and I will stick with it so the whole system matches.  I need to get another roll, and will take some pictures when it's partially assembled
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #6 on: July 12, 2020, 07:40:11 AM »
I'm with you on the regulatory placement.  I can't imagine why you woudn't want the fuel circulating through the rails before it heads back to the tank. 
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #7 on: July 12, 2020, 10:30:46 AM »
The instructions read "DISTRIBUTOR CONNECTION - Connect the 3-pin connector on the distributor to the Pro-Flo 4 #37-1634 Coil/IAC sub harness connector labeled DISTRIBUTOR. Ford and some Chrysler applications with distributor located at front of engine will use the provided distributor extension harness."

Did your kit come with the mentioned harness extension?
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2020, 05:36:52 PM »
The instructions read "DISTRIBUTOR CONNECTION - Connect the 3-pin connector on the distributor to the Pro-Flo 4 #37-1634 Coil/IAC sub harness connector labeled DISTRIBUTOR. Ford and some Chrysler applications with distributor located at front of engine will use the provided distributor extension harness."

Did your kit come with the mentioned harness extension?

No and my instructions don't say that.  I already made a 3-pin Weatherpack jumper harness, regardless, the coil wires have to be extended as well.  So even with the extender, the coil wires would need to be lengthened, another small issue, but I guess if Edelbrock doesn't provide a coil mounting boss on the Victor, there is no reason to give you enough wire to a specific coil mount. :) 

I am not having any issues with the install, or posting looking for help, just working it on the side and reporting back in case someone else decides to go this route.



---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2020, 08:15:14 PM »
Ross, thanks for the response.  Wasn't intending to try to fix something, was just curious after reading the latest online installation instructions. 
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2020, 07:03:00 AM »
Ross, thanks for the response.  Wasn't intending to try to fix something, was just curious after reading the latest online installation instructions.

I didn't mean to sound like I was jabbing at you, I appreciate the interest. This system does look really nice, but it's a bit more clumsy that I would expect.  That being said, it cou'd also be from hanging over the radiator support of a lifted truck, which never helps either :)
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #11 on: July 31, 2020, 06:33:40 PM »
So talking to Tommy T today, he mentioned this was the longest EFI install EVER...which is probably right, because I am putting it second, third, 4th, who knows to everything else.

However, today I got it running!  I ran all jumpers and temporary hook up because I decided to mount the ECM under the dash and figured I better make sure it runs first

I'll post a video and some pictures later but some lessons learned and info

1 - Edelbrock sent me the distributor extension harness, no questions asked, and fast too, I appreciated it very much

2 - The fuel pump relay took some thinking.  Normally, 1/2 of the relay is grounded, however, the Edelbrock shuts the pump off and on using a ground, easy enough, I wired continuous 12V through the 12V side, through an impact switch, and then isolated the ground wire and hooked it to the Edelbrock shut off wire.  Worked slick

3 - I wound the 3 inch mandrel bet pipe in through the frame so tightly, that I had to pull the entire exhaust off.  Added some work, but we got it.  I couldn't get at a pipe to put an O2 sensor otherwise (unless I pointed it straight down LOL)

4 - I turned the key, and WHAM, ran like shit LOL.  Did some diagnostics and saw odd lack of numbers from the Intake Air Sensor and O2 sensor  This made NO sense, because the intake air sensor was safely still in the Edelbrock box ...how could it be giving bad numbers?  LOL....plugged it in hung it over the throttle body for some air flow and man it ran nice after that, O2 sensor readings came right in

I intiially set it up with the wizard, and it did just fine, but the cam specs, cid and compression wanted me to run it at 58 psi and the "wild" cam program.  Ran fine, but needed tweaking.  After getting it close, the system told me I was idling at 15 inches of vacuum, so I lied to the wizard, and put "medium" cam in. Which really for a 230/236 @ .050 on 112, is medium...this instructed a corresponding reduction in fuel pressure from 58 to 43, quieted the pump down and the program says will support up to  550 HP (motor is 490-ish )  It really liked the different program, so I let it chug away for an hour on learn, and it sounded great. 

Initial at crank is 12 BTDC, I adjusted the idle to be 18 BTDC, and max total at 38 at 2700.  Can't drive it yet, but the program on the bluetooth tablet is super easy and works across the garage.  It has all kinds of options for vacuum advance, tip in fuel, cold start, looks to be pretty well thought out

Suprisingly, the engine actually has a little more lope than it did, at least the sound out of the exhaust.  It idles smoother but you can hear it firing nicely out of the pipes.  I am pretty happy so far

Game plan is to button up the install over the weekend, then start road testing and see what it does.  So far, I expect it to work pretty well, but we'll see when it's trying to make things happen
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #12 on: July 31, 2020, 08:51:53 PM »
Thanks for the update!  Good to see you got it running.  Looking forward to the road test.  I have a PF4 ordered for my 363, so will be good to learn from your installation.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #13 on: August 01, 2020, 07:47:35 AM »
Thanks for the update!  Good to see you got it running.  Looking forward to the road test.  I have a PF4 ordered for my 363, so will be good to learn from your installation.

I will post here, tried to check cold start last night (70 degrees or so) and the starter was hanging up.  Could be a backfeed from the 12V source I got, need to check, also throttle was extremely twitchy, almost hard to pull it forward into it's spot for the night.

More to come, need to wire it permanently and start playing
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #14 on: August 01, 2020, 06:06:45 PM »
So first, please realize the rat's nest of wires is because this was a pre-fire before I cut into the cowl, I then said, why not zip tie everything to go for a ride? Then it started pouring.

Anyway, seems to be running great, I need to find a quieter fuel pump.  The Deatchswerks 350iL, which is supposed to be a very good pump, sure isn't a quiet pump...in fact, it's worse than a Holley Blue!

Regardless, not much narration other than whining about the pump, but some sound and some flipping through the Bluetooth Controller, seems like a fun little EFI kit so far.  Throttle seems very responsive, but I will know tomorrow

https://youtu.be/bmVY8NeWJgU

As a recap, 461 inch FE, ported D2s flowing 277 cfm, port matched and plenum work on the Victor EFI, 230/236 @ .050 112 LSA on 106, 9.75:1. 490 HP on a dyno carb and no tuning

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=8110.0



---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

turbohunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2509
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #15 on: August 01, 2020, 06:45:40 PM »
Hmm
The wagon may need this.

Be interested in mileage vs carb.
« Last Edit: August 01, 2020, 06:47:32 PM by turbohunter »
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #16 on: August 02, 2020, 12:29:57 PM »
So funny day today, went out in the neighborhood, attempting to make bigger circles until I felt safe to hit the road.

Well, in front of a jogger I tried to accelerate easy and it LEAPT, then my foot came off and it bark the tires as it slowed, and I did that all the way home.  WTF

I tried some tuning, then went to Edelbrock's web site and it's pretty common in manual linkage throttles, to get the travel for the ford linkage, you put the ball close to the pivot point, but it gets so touchy you can't drive it

I ended up moving it as far out on the throttle arm as I could, knowing I wouldn't get full throttle, but I wanted to diagnose.  It drove beautiful....

I got about 20 miles on it, got better as it went, fuel pump is UNBEARABLE, I left a message for the company in OK so we'll see if I have a bad one or need to find another. 

Right now a/f mixtures are set for 13.8 idle, 13.5 cruise, and 12.8 WOT.  I think I am going to lean things up quite a bit, at least for cruise and see how it does.  There are so many different options, I'll have to sneak up on it one change at a time, but even now it runs well.  So far a success

Tomorrow I will wire it permanently, come up with a plan for the fuel pump and throttle, and then likely start using it for a daily driver for a bit and see how it does.    My gut tells me I am going to have to do some sort of progressive cable setup for the throttle, I just don't see the stock Ford working, although I do have the original 71 bellcrank I can see if I can adapt, I still think it'll be too quick

Success I think, at least after I can get the angle grinder fuel pump back to Oklahoma or in someone's race car!
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

HarleyJack17

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 268
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #17 on: August 03, 2020, 05:08:20 PM »
My GOD that fuel pump is horrendous!  That is year 2020 stuff right there! Hopefully they send you a new one or ear protection. Good update. Since you are modernizing the old girl just do some fly by wire HAHA.  Good thread, nice truck.

RustyCrankshaft

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #18 on: August 03, 2020, 08:37:03 PM »
  My gut tells me I am going to have to do some sort of progressive cable setup for the throttle, I just don't see the stock Ford working, although I do have the original 71 bellcrank I can see if I can adapt, I still think it'll be too quick

Success I think, at least after I can get the angle grinder fuel pump back to Oklahoma or in someone's race car!

Could you maybe use the pedal off a dent side pickup and convert it to cable? Dents had both mechanical and cable throttle pedals and I've used the cable pedal when I've done out of the ordinary engine swaps or combos to make it easier to get full throttle and not end up with weird pedal travel issues.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #19 on: August 04, 2020, 10:39:37 PM »
That’s a good idea, I need to finish revamping the wiring and then I’ll figure out what to do with the pedal it works really well now but I don’t get full throttle, drivable but not fully capable

I’m hoping if I extend it slightly I can find a balance between sensitivity and full throttle, If not I’ll have to replace it or do some work to both sides of the fulcrum
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #20 on: August 05, 2020, 02:13:33 PM »
Here's a funny thing today...

Finished up all my wiring for now, I do plan on getting some fabric style tape and once the wiring harness warms up and get s settled to where it's going to be happy, I am going to retape to make it look more "1971" LOL

However, I spent a good part of the morning, wiring the tach output to my Sun Super Tach.  No workie...

Talked to Edelbrock, because the test light showed a constant voltage, odd.  BUT I had in my head, MSD,...well, after we trouble shoot and discuss adapters for square wave tach signals I ask.  "Can I just hook it to the negative side of the coil?"

The guy says, "Sure, of course, the system doesn't care"....ROFL, so I hooked the tach up to the original wire and as they say "Honeybadger don't care!"  The tach is working and the Edelbrock ECM is happy, the truck runs great.

A few miles on it and I will determine what I want to do for a quieter pump, but its 70 degrees and clear, I am going for a good ride

I am starting to like this system, it's not as adjustable as my Mustang, but it's pretty decent, especially if you already had a return line fuel system and a vehicle that could easily use an in tank pump.  In fact, I have a GTO I work on, we cammed it and headers, healthy 4 speed 67 4 barrel, we may go this route too.
« Last Edit: August 05, 2020, 02:15:33 PM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

BigBlueIron

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 403
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2020, 10:00:59 AM »
Good to hear you are coming around on this. You seemed less than impressed with most of it before hand.

I would be very curious to know what the cold weather characteristics. Will it start and go through a proper warm up in 0 degrees like a modern factory style fuel injection. That would be a big selling point for me. I live about 2 blocks from work, to go home I fire up whatever I'm driving let it run a min and putter home that 2 blocks leave it running in the driveway go in change clothes and head to the shop. It is a total pain in the rear with anything carb. Plus a person could add an autostart system. Put one of those on my 7.3 last year, best $400 ever spent especially on that cold blooded bastard.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #22 on: August 06, 2020, 12:10:43 PM »
It has a cold start enrichment feature that you can adjust, and it does go to fast idle when cold.  So pretty normal

I still dislike the harness and some silly things.

1 - Given this is a street system, you'd assume heater and gauges.  It'd be very easy over the long run to have two water ports on the Victor, even if you did it on both the EFI and normal Victor, or at least a drillable boss

2 - The put in capital letters that you MUST vacuum reference the regulator at idle to lean it out.  However, there is no place to grab a 1/8 or 3/16 manifold vacuum line.  I am going to drill into the TB and either press a tube in or thread with 1/8 NPT

3 - You have to buy an additional relay for most fuel pumps, theirs is BIG money, but a Painless version is cheap, why not just fold the cost into the system and be able to use a realistic pump

4 - They have two loose relays you have to mount on the fender, another why?  Why not make the plastic ECM case hold the relays, just adds to messy install work.

5 - The stupidest thing EVER, when you link your tablet (that comes from them) to the ECM via bluetooth, it says "confirm you want to connect to ECM #000XXX by entering the ECM number (same number)  You have 8 seconds to do it and do it right.  Doesn't have to be done every time, but it takes 2-3 do-overs and is like some punishment to go super fast or it won't link....why a time limit?

That being said, the loads and adjustments the system does on it's own are quick.  it fired and was happy immediately.  Seems to run real well.
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

driveamerican

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 72
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #23 on: August 08, 2020, 03:34:30 AM »
Now I really can't wait to get back on mine as soon as I get this bowtie out of my shop funny how even in california chevrolet trucks of the 1960-1972 years rusted when people watered their lawn. It came over for rockers now the cab and bed are off to remove previous repairs and complete paint, 4l80, air conditioning, wire harness. Well he's a good friend, but the wife wants her truck under her 5th wheel for spring so I better shut up and get on it.

turbohunter

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2509
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2020, 05:46:13 AM »
Thanks for that Ross.
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon


cjshaker

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 4448
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2020, 10:16:17 AM »
$2500-$2800 dollars is hard to swallow. Given an average for gas prices around my parts, that's 1000-1100 gallons of fuel. Yikes! That's roughly 61 tanks of fuel! If you pick up 2 MPG, I guess you would essentially pay for it in roughly 32 tanks of gas. I realize that MPG is not the only factor for EFI though.

The controller seems laid out nicely. I think they used a vacuum cleaner motor for the pump. :P That would drive me nuts, in short order!
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #26 on: August 20, 2020, 07:23:50 PM »
Any update on the PF4 installation?  What did you finally do for the fuel supply/regulator/return routing?  Received by PF4 for my 363, need to get some installation ideas sorted.

Thanks!
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #27 on: August 27, 2020, 08:41:04 AM »
Sorry for the late reply, been focused on delivering the two I just dyno'd

The PF4 is doing great when hot, OK when cold.  It almost seems too rich when cold, I have not played with the cold start enrichment.  Its at zero though so a little odd.  You can go negative, I am going to try it.

Once it reaches 160 or so, runs like a dream.  I still have to swap pumps, and I wish I would have put an under body tank back when I did all the body work, but at this point, I am going to leave it.  I have about 75 miles on it since the last update, but with the noisy pump and a 50x50x40 crate in the back, it's not really daily driver fun.  Should be able to jump on it starting 1 Sep or so and wrap it up
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #28 on: August 28, 2020, 07:25:39 AM »
Did you replumb the system to have the fuel run through the rails continuously or just feed the system deadheaded off the bypass regulator?  I'm not clear yet on what the cleanest method would be on these systems.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #29 on: August 28, 2020, 08:51:47 AM »
I did not replumb the system.  I decided that I would give it a try based on Edelbrock's tech line saying that many OEM are set up this way, and the fact that I am only at 500-ish HP.  You can monitor rail pressure and I never see a fluctuation but I also don't know the response time of the gauge

That being said, eventually I think I will at least tie them together up front at the feed instead of in series  That would make two 4 cylinder banks.  Seems like there would be a pressure drop. however it's so much of a cleaner install to have the return come right off the regulator.

5 and 6 are farthest from the source, 1-5-4-2-6-3-7-8  makes me think they could be affected, 1 dumps, cheats 5, and 4 and 2 dump and cheat 6, but not sure.  Maybe I will see if I can move the pressure sensor to the end too.  You have me thinking now LOL

If I separated, I would have 1-X-4-2-X-3 and 5-X-X-6-X-7-8, likely better, we'll see,  Pump first :)

I did find the cold start issue, turns out there was a ECM update, and whether I had a glitch or a bad load, I loaded it yesterday and it started clean as a whistle.  Prior to that it stunk, but I found out it wasn't rich cold it was idling at 22:1, lean as hell.  Cleaned right up with even minor throttle and perfect when 165 degrees or higher,  but now it holds a nice 13.4 at cold start and sounds so much better.

« Last Edit: August 29, 2020, 08:49:21 AM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #30 on: September 20, 2020, 01:41:54 PM »
Well, today I got a full hour on the truck, and other than the miserable noisy pump, it just kept doing better and better.  So far I like what see

Some lessons

1 - Even if you think you are an EFI guy, you need to read the instructions LOL.  Not that it was an incredible thing, but the tuning you can do to help learning is by looking at short term fuel correction, you have two choices a global adjustment to "trim" or specific throttle positions.  Once I read that it was pretty darn easy to get to some significant changes and then the truck just drove nice

2 - I had a bad O2 sensor, new in the box, which is not uncommon with this kit (although I sat on this project for over a year so certainly no warranty) It was intermittent, so I was sure it was wiring, tested by their standards and it always passed.  However it would go off line intermittently, finally I bought a Chinese 22 dollar O2 sensor just to see if it would do the same thing, and VOILA, runs like a dream.  I am not sure I will trust this cheapo, it heats a little slower and who knows if it's calibrated, but man it's running better

In the end, I'd say this is a decent setup, I can't say that a Sniper or FITech throttle body with ignition control wouldn't be just as good, but this is good and comes with a lot of neat stuff

Next step is to find a quiet fuel pump, this is like a Holley Blue mixed with a nest of angry robot hornets and a screaming 3 year old.....LOL it needs to go
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

68fecyclone

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 44
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #31 on: September 20, 2020, 02:12:32 PM »
  A question, could that pump be so noisy due to being dead headed?  I wonder if a return line would quiet it down some. Rob
« Last Edit: September 20, 2020, 02:28:35 PM by 68fecyclone »

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #32 on: September 20, 2020, 05:50:21 PM »
It has a return, it’s just dead headed after the regulator

The company told me I picked the noisiest one they had, and that’s why it didn’t say “quiet” in the description.....it didn’t say noisy either! ::)
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

TTA89

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 8
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #33 on: September 21, 2020, 07:20:59 PM »

1 - Given this is a street system, you'd assume heater and gauges.  It'd be very easy over the long run to have two water ports on the Victor, even if you did it on both the EFI and normal Victor, or at least a drillable boss


Wait a minute...  So there isn't anywhere to hook up heater hose?  So how would you run a heater?
-Mike
67 390 GT Mustang
Current status: Slowly coming back together

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #34 on: September 21, 2020, 07:37:17 PM »
There are 2 NPT bungs, like every other FE intake, My point was I needed three total, coolant temperature sensor, heater and gauge

You’d be fine if you didn’t have a heater or if you chose not to have a gauge but I wantEd all three so welded a bung in
« Last Edit: September 21, 2020, 07:43:19 PM by My427stang »
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

70bosscat

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 18
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #35 on: September 27, 2020, 02:39:47 PM »
I've never heard a fuel pump that sounds like a leaf blower. I can't believe they actually sell that thing.

Barry_R

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1906
    • View Profile
    • Survival Motorsports
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2020, 01:46:57 PM »
Carter makes a really nice little external mount pump that is very quiet and we've used it to supply a 600HP package with zero issues for a few years of service now.  Historically I have fed both bank's from the rear and connected them up front, with the regulator mounted to the passenger side front rail.  I don't know if it really matters, but I think it might have been John Meaney who told me to do it that way nearly 20 years ago and I keep doing it.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2020, 02:19:20 PM »
I typically go through the rails and regulate the return/exit, this Edelbrock system dead heads the rails, likely fine for 490 HP, I don't have a good reason knowing the OEM is happy with a deadhead rail, but I don't love it.  Game plan at some later date is to plumb it the way I normally do them, and see how the fuel trim tables change.  If they don't, it didn't matter

As far as the pump, I change my mind on my own stuff a lot, but I think I am going to end up with the big Weldon with a -8AN feed.  Likely this spring, bringing the Mustang in soon, rattle chasing and prep for the big motor
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #38 on: November 08, 2020, 06:40:44 PM »
Installed a Pro-Flo 4 on my Z2363 and got it started today. Does the table report real-time telemetry?  Didn't seem obvious like a Sniper injection.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #39 on: November 08, 2020, 10:00:31 PM »
There is a gauge view that tells you all it can tell you

The only command it will show is the amount it’s trying to correct SP% I think
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #40 on: November 10, 2020, 05:28:48 PM »
Go to 1:51 and watch me fat finger, you can see the different live gauge displays and how I got there

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmVY8NeWJgU&feature=youtu.be
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #41 on: November 10, 2020, 06:36:42 PM »
Thanks Ross.  I had been there on my tablet, but none of the data was updating.  I called Edelbrock tech and they said the issue was the bluetooth disconnecting.  The signal may drop, but the green "check" will still show, making it seem that the bluetooth is still connected.  The fix was to press the green check to disconnect, then reconnect.

So far so good.  Start up was easy, now time to play with it!

One of the areas I'm a bit concerned about is sharing the TPS signal with my Quick 4 4R70W transmission controller.  The Quick 4 manufacturer sold me an interface harness with a resistor (and other components?) that they say should keep the Pro Flo 4 happy.  Edelbrock tech is insistent that the TPS signal is sacred and cannot be compromised.  Will find out soon enough.
« Last Edit: November 10, 2020, 06:40:57 PM by JamesonRacing »
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

RustyCrankshaft

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 489
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #42 on: November 10, 2020, 09:04:30 PM »
Thanks Ross.  I had been there on my tablet, but none of the data was updating.  I called Edelbrock tech and they said the issue was the bluetooth disconnecting.  The signal may drop, but the green "check" will still show, making it seem that the bluetooth is still connected.  The fix was to press the green check to disconnect, then reconnect.

So far so good.  Start up was easy, now time to play with it!

One of the areas I'm a bit concerned about is sharing the TPS signal with my Quick 4 4R70W transmission controller.  The Quick 4 manufacturer sold me an interface harness with a resistor (and other components?) that they say should keep the Pro Flo 4 happy.  Edelbrock tech is insistent that the TPS signal is sacred and cannot be compromised.  Will find out soon enough.

Most "plug and play" EFI systems I've dealt with all say it's sudden instant death if you tap into the TPS signal but as long as it's done well as far as the wiring splices/connectors go then I haven't had any issues. Although I haven't tried it with this version of MSD injection, I have with FAST, FiTech, Sniper, etc. So far had pretty good luck.

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #43 on: November 11, 2020, 05:54:31 PM »
Thanks Ross.  I had been there on my tablet, but none of the data was updating.  I called Edelbrock tech and they said the issue was the bluetooth disconnecting.  The signal may drop, but the green "check" will still show, making it seem that the bluetooth is still connected.  The fix was to press the green check to disconnect, then reconnect.

So far so good.  Start up was easy, now time to play with it!

One of the areas I'm a bit concerned about is sharing the TPS signal with my Quick 4 4R70W transmission controller.  The Quick 4 manufacturer sold me an interface harness with a resistor (and other components?) that they say should keep the Pro Flo 4 happy.  Edelbrock tech is insistent that the TPS signal is sacred and cannot be compromised.  Will find out soon enough.

I have grown to hate that tablet.  Sometimes it links, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes it will work across the shop.  The thing to remember, if anything isn't working, shut the key off and wait until you hear the click from the relay. the click is the magic rest LOL

We have asked for Iphone support, no deal, I may try a different tablet and see what happens
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #44 on: November 11, 2020, 07:01:45 PM »
Curious where you ended up on your AFR targets.  Seems the cruise setting would want to be above 14.0, but not sure how far.  My Z2363 shows between 11 and 12" vacuum at idle, which is a bit more than I expected it would.  Does that make sense for it to still have a "Race" base map?  I'm going to bump up the idle timing from 15 to 18 and see how it likes it.  My FEs all seem to like a lot of timing; would imaging the small block would be similar.
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W

My427stang

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3918
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #45 on: November 11, 2020, 08:03:31 PM »
I run mine at 15 initial, I keep leaning cruise AFR out, but haven't done much with the others.  I will go out and look at the numbers and report back

Mine has more vacuum, but it was far happier with the milder of the two maps
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

JamesonRacing

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 361
  • 1966 - What a great year for FOMOCO
    • View Profile
Re: Edelbrock fuel injection install
« Reply #46 on: June 08, 2021, 06:35:53 PM »
Hi Ross....Long term update/review on your experience with the Edelbrock Pro Flo 4?
1966 Fairlane GT, Silver Blue/Black 496/C4 (9.93@133)
1966 Fairlane GT, Nightmist Blue/Black 465/TKO (11.41@122)
1966 Fairlane GTA Conv, Antique Bronze/Black, 418EFI/C6
1966 F250 C/S, Rangoon Red, 445/T19
1965 Falcon Futura 4-door, Turquoise, EF! Z2363/4R70W