208 hp 352

[cammerfe]

To answer the question asked above, Yes, I have done a dual-quad FE EFI set-up.

When Holley first announced their retro-fit TBI system, I was writing for Super Ford Magazine. I called and asked about feasibility of using their system on a Medium Riser 427 with dual quads, (Brother Lon's '67 Mustang) and was told that they were about 6 months away from having such a product. Several months later, I was told that the program was shelved "for the foreseeable future." I asked about using a pair of systems on one engine, and they agreed to assist in such a project.

The project, written-up in a several-part series in Super Ford, ultimately consisted of a pair of stand-alone electronic controls for the two throttle bodies, with the fuel delivery paired so as to have adequate flow and volume. We had to replace the eight injectors because good 'cruise' and good 'WOT' were not attainable with a single setting while using the factory-supplied items.

When we got the injectors changed and the tune in hand, we found that we not only had much more user-friendly start and low speed characteristics, the mid-range was much enhanced and WOT power was significantly more than had been available with any sort of Holley carb pairs.

Testing was done using an accelerometer as a yardstick while using the test-track at T&C Livonia.

KS

[TimeWarpF100]

275 hp 352

[TimeWarpF100]

275 hp 352

[plovett]

He also asked about wheel spin, from a dead stop I can get in it very hard and no wheel spin! That is a HUGE factor.

This Friday is last Friday night drags for the year until February. Tempted to go. See how it does.

My testing spot now has too much traffic to do any real testing.

You have a 482 and can't even spin the tires?  Holy moly.  You have some issues with the combination for sure.  I have a little 428 and it spins street tires well into 2nd gear, up to 65-70 mph.  It spins cheater slicks part way through 1st gear up to maybe 40-45 mph. 

[TimeWarpF100]

275 hp 352

[cammerfe]

To answer the question asked above, Yes, I have done a dual-quad FE EFI set-up.

When Holley first announced their retro-fit TBI system, I was writing for Super Ford Magazine. I called and asked about feasibility of using their system on a Medium Riser 427 with dual quads, (Brother Lon's '67 Mustang) and was told that they were about 6 months away from having such a product. Several months later, I was told that the program was shelved "for the foreseeable future." I asked about using a pair of systems on one engine, and they agreed to assist in such a project.

The project, written-up in a several-part series in Super Ford, ultimately consisted of a pair of stand-alone electronic controls for the two throttle bodies, with the fuel delivery paired so as to have adequate flow and volume. We had to replace the eight injectors because good 'cruise' and good 'WOT' were not attainable with a single setting while using the factory-supplied items.

When we got the injectors changed and the tune in hand, we found that we not only had much more user-friendly start and low speed characteristics, the mid-range was much enhanced and WOT power was significantly more than had been available with any sort of Holley carb pairs.

Testing was done using an accelerometer as a yardstick while using the test-track at T&C Livonia.

KS

Very interesting!  Thanks for the input. What year would that have been?

Jason )CobraCammer has one on his SOHC Saleen project. I should probably go back and read thru his efforts.

Must be more than 20 years ago now. Our approach, regarding the cam, was that you chose the cam to go with the other hard parts, and then tuned the EFI to work with what you had in place. Lon's Mustang had a custom Comp cam, but I have no clear memory of the details. It was somewhat rowdy, but the EFI tuning made it easy to live with and it always started instantly.

KS

[TimeWarpF100]

275 hp 352

[plovett]

He also asked about wheel spin, from a dead stop I can get in it very hard and no wheel spin! That is a HUGE factor.

This Friday is last Friday night drags for the year until February. Tempted to go. See how it does.

My testing spot now has too much traffic to do any real testing.

You have a 482 and can't even spin the tires?  Holy moly.  You have some issues with the combination for sure.  I have a little 428 and it spins street tires well into 2nd gear, up to 65-70 mph.  It spins cheater slicks part way through 1st gear up to maybe 40-45 mph.

So what you are saying that in any build the only important thing is how much it can spin the tires?

Nope.  I'm not saying that at all.  I do 1/4 mile testing, as well.  And I drive my car on the street.

Good luck figuring out your combination.

paulie

[WerbyFord]

He also asked about wheel spin, from a dead stop I can get in it very hard and no wheel spin! That is a HUGE factor.

This Friday is last Friday night drags for the year until February. Tempted to go. See how it does.

My testing spot now has too much traffic to do any real testing.

You have a 482 and can't even spin the tires?  Holy moly.  You have some issues with the combination for sure.  I have a little 428 and it spins street tires well into 2nd gear, up to 65-70 mph.  It spins cheater slicks part way through 1st gear up to maybe 40-45 mph.

HaHaHaHahahahahahahahahahahaha!

So what you are saying that in any build the only important thing is how much it can spin the tires? And, tire spin is the new true indicator of how much HP the engine has? So how about if you take that parachute, hang glider or tall ladder and get down off that high horse & drive on by with that wheel spinner you have and let's have a friendly competition?

That statement you just made tells me all I need to know about such brilliance!

In my builds I strive for least amount of tire spin vs how much I can make it spin.

So go ahead stop on by for the competition then we will see how that "wheel spin" works out for you!

If a converter manufacturer says the converter is as tight as they can make it and still stalling a bit high that means my "Combination" is all wrong? Yeah, Ok, Got It . . .

You should probably open the mind a bit about EFI, take both feet out of your mouth and put the thinking cap on!

So before I make a cam change we should probably do that contest before hand . . It's current "Combination" is already much better than yours.

How about:

60'

1/8 Mile
1/4 Mile
Road Course
Braking Tests
Top Speed
Overall Handling
Ride Quality
Driveability
Engine/Drivetrain "Combination"
Chassis Dyno

Then we do a entire vehicle  contest along with fit and finish

Any other categories you want to add? Wheel spin?

Of all categories mentioned above which one do you think your cougar would win?

Maybe you should work on your "Combination" before hand?

Your reading comprehension also needs a bit of work. No where did I say it WOULD NOT spin the tires. Don't want it to but if I went WOT it may. Have not tried it yet.

Hey this is starting to remind me of the good-old high school days, when everybody told me how slow my cobra jet was.
Well, it WAS slow by today's standards, but for 1975 in high school, it was the fastest car in the lot for sure. And the best looking I would have to add. Total chick magnet.

TimeWarp, I think you're being a little over-defensive, it seems you attack your car (and the old-school 1958-vintage FE) and then defend it vigorously. (That's actually a Monte Python skit with John Cleese). Relax, we are just trying to help. Everybody has a little expertise here and there

I'll offer mine - in the Gonkulator, EXCEPT for its potential feedback on the EFI mixture readings, that 106 LSA isn't hurting a thing performance wise. For sure as you plan, I'd get some times on it before yanking it out.

Now back to the High School rivalry:
I like your idea of a shootout between your rig and Paulie's Cougar.
The bright red on your truck will make it faster, and I suppose it's prettier than Paulie's (dog blue IIRC?) Cougar.
But, the Cougar is a lot lighter and way less of a brick aero-wise. Trucks run a lot lower MPH than you might think due to their brick-like aero.

I've already run both engines & cars in the Gonkulator but I don't want to give any hints.

How bout we compare time slips, bit by bit.
First both of you post 60 ft times with the rest blanked out.
The excitement builds.
Another sip of beer and a bite of popcorn in the stands.
The 330ft mark goes by - you both post those.
Some of the crowd is standing up now.
(Lets face it, a 66 truck and 67 cougar, maybe there's 20 of us in the stands but half are standing).
Then we post the 660 results, then 1000 ft, then 1320 and the blinking light!!!

How bout it?

One other category where I bet either me or Bill Ballinger would win - ponies PER DOLLAR.
I always emohasize this when comparisons are made to the new computer-powered iron.
All the Muscle Cars back in the day were UNDER $30,000 (in today's dollars) for a stripper CAR and a hot drive train.
Nobody paid $60,000 or $90,000 for a car, that would be just nuts. That was house money.

So TimeWarp and Paulie, let's do that Time Slip shootout here.
All in good fun!

[plovett]

He also asked about wheel spin, from a dead stop I can get in it very hard and no wheel spin! That is a HUGE factor.

This Friday is last Friday night drags for the year until February. Tempted to go. See how it does.

My testing spot now has too much traffic to do any real testing.

You have a 482 and can't even spin the tires?  Holy moly.  You have some issues with the combination for sure.  I have a little 428 and it spins street tires well into 2nd gear, up to 65-70 mph.  It spins cheater slicks part way through 1st gear up to maybe 40-45 mph.

HaHaHaHahahahahahahahahahahaha!

So what you are saying that in any build the only important thing is how much it can spin the tires? And, tire spin is the new true indicator of how much HP the engine has? So how about if you take that parachute, hang glider or tall ladder and get down off that high horse & drive on by with that wheel spinner you have and let's have a friendly competition?

That statement you just made tells me all I need to know about such brilliance!

In my builds I strive for least amount of tire spin vs how much I can make it spin.

So go ahead stop on by for the competition then we will see how that "wheel spin" works out for you!

If a converter manufacturer says the converter is as tight as they can make it and still stalling a bit high that means my "Combination" is all wrong? Yeah, Ok, Got It . . .

You should probably open the mind a bit about EFI, take both feet out of your mouth and put the thinking cap on!

So before I make a cam change we should probably do that contest before hand . . It's current "Combination" is already much better than yours.

How about:

60'

1/8 Mile
1/4 Mile
Road Course
Braking Tests
Top Speed
Overall Handling
Ride Quality
Driveability
Engine/Drivetrain "Combination"
Chassis Dyno

Then we do a entire vehicle  contest along with fit and finish

Any other categories you want to add? Wheel spin?

Of all categories mentioned above which one do you think your cougar would win?

Maybe you should work on your "Combination" before hand?

Your reading comprehension also needs a bit of work. No where did I say it WOULD NOT spin the tires. Don't want it to but if I went WOT it may. Have not tried it yet.

Hey this is starting to remind me of the good-old high school days, when everybody told me how slow my cobra jet was.
Well, it WAS slow by today's standards, but for 1975 in high school, it was the fastest car in the lot for sure. And the best looking I would have to add. Total chick magnet.

TimeWarp, I think you're being a little over-defensive, it seems you attack your car (and the old-school 1958-vintage FE) and then defend it vigorously. (That's actually a Monte Python skit with John Cleese). Relax, we are just trying to help. Everybody has a little expertise here and there

I'll offer mine - in the Gonkulator, EXCEPT for its potential feedback on the EFI mixture readings, that 106 LSA isn't hurting a thing performance wise. For sure as you plan, I'd get some times on it before yanking it out.

Now back to the High School rivalry:
I like your idea of a shootout between your rig and Paulie's Cougar.
The bright red on your truck will make it faster, and I suppose it's prettier than Paulie's (dog blue IIRC?) Cougar.
But, the Cougar is a lot lighter and way less of a brick aero-wise. Trucks run a lot lower MPH than you might think due to their brick-like aero.

I've already run both engines & cars in the Gonkulator but I don't want to give any hints.

How bout we compare time slips, bit by bit.
First both of you post 60 ft times with the rest blanked out.
The excitement builds.
Another sip of beer and a bite of popcorn in the stands.
The 330ft mark goes by - you both post those.
Some of the crowd is standing up now.
(Lets face it, a 66 truck and 67 cougar, maybe there's 20 of us in the stands but half are standing).
Then we post the 660 results, then 1000 ft, then 1320 and the blinking light!!!

How bout it?

One other category where I bet either me or Bill Ballinger would win - ponies PER DOLLAR.
I always emohasize this when comparisons are made to the new computer-powered iron.
All the Muscle Cars back in the day were UNDER $30,000 (in today's dollars) for a stripper CAR and a hot drive train.
Nobody paid $60,000 or $90,000 for a car, that would be just nuts. That was house money.

So TimeWarp and Paulie, let's do that Time Slip shootout here.
All in good fun!

  For me, 1.99 60 ft on street tires on a street surface.  G-tech g-meter.  Admittedly, my suspension is not awesome.  That was rolling in and out the throttle to try to hook.


The tires are 10.5" ET Street bias plys.  I think I had the pressure down to 17 psi.   And yes, my Cougar is the ugly blue one. 

paulie

[plovett]

I'll have to see if my G-tech still has that run in it.  I remember the 1/4 time and mph, but not 330', 1/8 mile, 1000 ft. and such.  I don't even remember if the G-tech records 330' and 1000'.  It's been a while for me. 

paulie

[plovett]

Also, I think the G-meter might not record 60 foot times like on the dragstrip.  I think it can't account for rollout or where you are staged behind the light.  It just starts recording when it can tell that you are moving.  So the 60' time can be deceptive?  I think?

JMO,

paulie

[WerbyFord]

Also, I think the G-meter might not record 60 foot times like on the dragstrip.  I think it can't account for rollout or where you are staged behind the light.  It just starts recording when it can tell that you are moving.  So the 60' time can be deceptive?  I think?

JMO,

paulie

Unless you change it, most of the GTECH are set up with a 12" rollout.
In fact, all the raw data is in there.
So if you upload it to your laptop later on you can specify when to subtract rollout & how much eg 6" 12" 18".
0-60mph is almost always quoted from a dead stop so no rollout. ALMOST always.
Timeslip stuff of course includes rollout, 12" is a typical number.

I calibrate my GTECH stuff now & then vs the dragstip timeslips to make sure that both jive.

One of the most valuable things about the GTECH that a dragstrip CANNOT do is show you G's vs time.
You can tell what your peak G's is on launching, and if you hit it too hard or too soft.

Its also good for telling when to shift - when the G's fall away in 1st, then if you shift to 2nd too early they fall WAY off, vs holding 1st til the G's only drop a little bit into 2nd.

The G's vs time is so sensitive, I can compare runs & pick out the "kick" from when I Cobra-Jetted my heads, the same up to 3000 & then you can see it right on the G's vs time where the bigger heads start coming on.

Well I guess this very-slow-motion race is underway, a 1.99 60ft from Blue Cougar is all we have so far.

[plovett]

Yeah, a 1.99 60 ft is pretty slow motion for sure.   

I will give a hint though, this was on a cold winter day.  Maybe 40-45 degrees F.  So the traction was lackin' but the miles per hour were showing the power! 

paulie

[plovett]

Also, I think the G-meter might not record 60 foot times like on the dragstrip.  I think it can't account for rollout or where you are staged behind the light.  It just starts recording when it can tell that you are moving.  So the 60' time can be deceptive?  I think?

JMO,

paulie

Unless you change it, most of the GTECH are set up with a 12" rollout.
In fact, all the raw data is in there.
So if you upload it to your laptop later on you can specify when to subtract rollout & how much eg 6" 12" 18".
0-60mph is almost always quoted from a dead stop so no rollout. ALMOST always.
Timeslip stuff of course includes rollout, 12" is a typical number.

I calibrate my GTECH stuff now & then vs the dragstip timeslips to make sure that both jive.

One of the most valuable things about the GTECH that a dragstrip CANNOT do is show you G's vs time.
You can tell what your peak G's is on launching, and if you hit it too hard or too soft.

Its also good for telling when to shift - when the G's fall away in 1st, then if you shift to 2nd too early they fall WAY off, vs holding 1st til the G's only drop a little bit into 2nd.

The G's vs time is so sensitive, I can compare runs & pick out the "kick" from when I Cobra-Jetted my heads, the same up to 3000 & then you can see it right on the G's vs time where the bigger heads start coming on.

Well I guess this very-slow-motion race is underway, a 1.99 60ft from Blue Cougar is all we have so far.

That is all very good info.  Especially about the g's and the shift points.  Thanks!  To be honest I haven't had my GTECH on my Cougar for a few years now. I have to find it and see if it still works. 

If I remember right, I was shifting into second around 6600-6700 rpm and into third around 6900-7000.

paulie