Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?

[427HISS]

Ross, what are you quoting "they just don't lend themselves to a home tuned EFI system, or a dyno run or two, and certainly not a self-tuning system" ?

From home tune, does that mean that very intelligent and non-in business gearhead men don't know about building engines, tuning EFI systems or dyno's ?  I'm I not getting what you mean or are you just being a.....?

Please explain.

[427HISS]

I spoke a little with a guy today that had to leave for a week, but told me to speak with Brent, Barry and others here.
I'm still wanting more power with my Dove 428. I can't afford to buy or build a aftermarket 482 side oiler, unless money comes falling from the sky, so I'll have to use my current motor.

He mentioned getting different stroker crank and pistons to create a 462-433 cu. That's all we had time for.
A few people here and a friend said to keep my wossy cam, get it running then this winter put in the upscale cam and spring kit.
My thought is, it's faster and much easier to do the change out of the engine bay.

So if....a different stroker crank and pistons are changed, what cube, stroke, bore size etc, what will that bring in HP/TQ ?

I don't know much about the Dove aluminum heads, but I let a call to them. I have a bit more info somewhere....I'll look.

Valves-Precision
Compression- 10:7:1
Lash .022 (hot)
I really want to know the flow numbers.

Still thinking of either a hydro roller or mechanical roller. (wonder how much the power difference would be)

I'll paste again the info I know.

428FE and a stack injection system. The cam is the COMP Cams 11-217-4.
I still want my engine to sound and feel nasty, but what are the cam profile's that this injection needs.
I can give you more details, but this is just for basic information about cam's for injection.

Comp Cams Magnum Mechanical Flat Tappet Camshafts
COMP Cams 11-217-4
Part Number: 249-11-217-4

Operating Range:   1800-5800 RPM
Duration Advertised:   270° Intake / 270° Exhaust
Duration @ .050'' Lift:   224° Intake / 224° Exhaust
Valve Lift:   .530'' Intake / .530'' Exhaust
Valve Setting:   .022'' Intake / .022'' Exhaust
Lobe Separation Angle:   110°
Specifications:

Exhaust Valve Lift (in.)0.53Intake Valve Lift (in.)0.530RPM Range1800-5800Exh. Duration @ .050 in. (Deg)224Int. Duration @ .050 in. (Deg)224Exh. Duration Advertised (Deg)270Int. Duration Advertised (Deg)270Engine Make/SizeChevy Big Block (396-454)Lifter TypeMechanical Flat TappetUsageStreet/StripAdvertised Duration270 int./270 exh.Advertised Exhaust Duration270Advertised Intake Duration270Basic Operating RPM Range1,800-5,800Cam StyleMechanical flat tappetComputer-Controlled CompatibleNoDuration at 050 inch Lift224 int./224 exh.Exhaust Duration at 050 inch Lift224Exhaust Valve Lash (in.)0.022Exhaust Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio (0.53Grind NumberCB 270S-10Intake Duration at 050 inch Lift224Intake Valve Lash (in.)0.022Intake Valve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio (i0.53QuantitySold individuallyValve Lift with Factory Rocker Arm Ratio0.530 int./0.530 exh.Valve Springs RequiredYesLobe Separation (Deg)110Manufacturer's Part Number:11-217-4

[DuckRyder]

Not Ross but I’d just like to say a few things.

1) You’re getting real good advice here.

2) I think a big part of why you aren’t getting more is that there’s not much else to say until some more details are had.

It all has to work together and it is hard to make it work together until you figure out exactly what you’re dealing with, where a cam is concerned even seemingly small changes can drastically affect things like whether it’ll run on pump gas... (DCR)

Most of the things that would make a camshaft fit into the “sound nasty” category take it out of the “EFI" category (particularly what I gather is an older EFI with limited tuning capability).

Even the best laid plans might not work out spot on in spite of ones best efforts when others have to be depended on and possibly out of no ones particular fault... (voice of experience here)

If you are going to change the engine, then you have to do the checking.

All of that said, now you’re talking about changing the rotating assembly, the money that will take to do will pay for a lot of checking, camshaft (*ahem* roller) and maybe even EFI...

I positively see the wisdom in using what you have if it is all together and running...

Lastly as a couple have alluded to - we all would love to have a car that sounds like a funny car until we have to live with a funny car....

[My427stang]

Ross, what are you quoting "they just don't lend themselves to a home tuned EFI system, or a dyno run or two, and certainly not a self-tuning system" ?

From home tune, does that mean that very intelligent and non-in business gearhead men don't know about building engines, tuning EFI systems or dyno's ?  I'm I not getting what you mean or are you just being a.....?

Please explain.

Kevin, I am telling you that you can't have your cake and eat it too.  If you found a very sharp EFI tuner, and there are some, but not a lot, he could, with the right system have you in open loop at idle, then some closed loop at part throttle, then back to open loop.  Or he could tune using fuel tables and force the system to command what the engine wants

However, narrow the LSA, drop the compression then try to make it act nicely, each of those things fight each other.  10 runs on a dyno at WOT won't get it right, nor will a self learning system, you need to be able to study logs and see what the engine needs and know the components aren't forcing incorrect numbers. 

I am not being an a$$, I am telling you that you went right back to the beginning of the conversation and building a street EFI system either takes building the engine to match the EFI (like Joe told you, low overlap from wide LSA and reasonable duration), or having time and money to tune the engine to a variety of environments (very purposeful tuning by someone who knows what they are seeing and a system that gives them control)

Let me tell you, that is why the big tuners make big bucks, an engine is a system, and nobody can say "what cam do I use" without the entire system planned and a knowledgeable tuner working it

I am the last guy to say guys can't build at home, hell I am an USAF Colonel by day.  However, I have 33 years of EFI, diesel and you name it work, factory and otherwise, and I am trying to explain that people have come in to me and all the other builders with what they "want" and often we have to talk them out of it, or at least revise it, and they end up happier.  That's what I am trying to say respectfully, but feel now that I have to say it bluntly.  That's why you aren't getting the answers you want, they aren't there

[427HISS]

First let me say, thank you for your service Colonel !   

Ok, I'll stop wanting the best of all worlds and go with I have, except for the larger cam. Once I find out the head specs, I'll let you know. I'll stop researching in ways of making the best power and asking about the same questions on other websites to get different views, like..."did you not like the answers you received on the other forum"?

Years ago, people used to like bench racing, like using the same block, but using different bores, strokes, Pistons, intakes, heads with the many different combinations, fuel delivery's, to electronics etc. It used to be fun, even if you weren't going to build a engine at all. I'm not wanting to be jerk by having several pages, changing/adding my options, asking many questions,
etc..

I'll slow done and get back you all after I know everything about the heads.

No disrespect....and hanks to you all,
Kevin

[My427stang]

First let me say, thank you for your service Colonel !   

Ok, I'll stop wanting the best of all worlds and go with I have, except for the larger cam. Once I find out the head specs, I'll let you know. I'll stop researching in ways of making the best power and asking about the same questions on other websites to get different views, like..."did you not like the answers you received on the other forum"?

Years ago, people used to like bench racing, like using the same block, but using different bores, strokes, Pistons, intakes, heads with the many different combinations, fuel delivery's, to electronics etc. It used to be fun, even if you weren't going to build a engine at all. I'm not wanting to be jerk by having several pages, changing/adding my options, asking many questions,
etc..

I'll slow done and get back you all after I know everything about the heads.

No disrespect....and hanks to you all,
Kevin

Kevin, here is the best bet

1 - Figure out actual compression, quench, and port flow as set up in your motor
2 - Report back on gearing and intended USE of the car, not sound unless that IS the primary goal at the cost of performance.  More drag racing, more cruising, idling into a show, whatever is the most common use.  Can't be all of them "jack of all trades, master of none...."
3 - Then you pick a cam, note it should not be a narrow LSA lumpity cam.  Doesn't mean it will be a baby, but your intake manifold will not want too radical without a big plenum to buffer pulses and Cobra headers typically are horrible, combined with the EFI, it's important to keep the cam conservative and likely wide-ish LSA for minimal overlap.

In the end, bench racing, chair flying, all good, but prior to this exchange you have been asking opinions, but trying to shape a response for a mismatched combo based on what you'd like to see/hear.   You have much room to grow over a 270 Comp, but it's not going to be happy as a short track engine either

[427HISS]

I believe that this cam will work out well. David Dove recommends it.

[62Falcon390]

i have a solid flat cam in my 390, and i use the fast ez efi kit on my modified tunnel ram in a 3380 pound  4 speed falcon.. i want to go abit more radical but i love the sound this cam makes

Intake lobe: Compcams 270XTQ
Exhaust lobe: Compcams TL276
270/276 degrees @ 0.020"
240/246 degrees @ 0.050"
108 degree lobe separation angle
Gross lift .598"/.608" with 1.76 rockers

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4jGxka4DcB8

[427HISS]

I'm going to use the fast ez that came with the efi and see how I like it. I can always step up later. But, it is a older version.

[DuckRyder]

427 hiss. That cam seems like exactly what everyone explained you don’t want ...

[frnkeore]

I've read this whole thread and the thing that has concerned me, is your health issues, should you ever get that engine in your Cobra.

The cam you want, will come on strong, when it gets to it's power band. The adrenaline will peak and your heart may not be able to peak with it. That combined with the diabetic aspect and you passing out, sure doesn't help my concerns.

I'm 75 and a former SCCA Formula Atlantic driver. In SCCA, you have to pass a physical to drive, that includes a EKG and any other health issues. I'm sorry to say this but, you would not pass the criteria for that.

Again, I hate to say it but, think about the risk to the public if you get on it and something happens. If you do install your engine, I would limit any hard acceleration to track conditions, where there are crews to mitigate things.


 

[427HISS]

I'm going to use the fast ez that came with the efi and see how I like it. I can always step up later. But, it is a older version.

Sounds good.

[427HISS]

427 hiss. That cam seems like exactly what everyone explained you don’t want ...

Why's that ?

[blykins]

I'm going to use the fast ez that came with the efi and see how I like it. I can always step up later. But, it is a older version.

Sounds good.

Do you know that you just quoted yourself and replied to yourself?   That's some deep stuff right there. 

[427HISS]

Lol, no. I meant to 62Falcon390 saying the video of his engine running sounded good.