Author Topic: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?  (Read 30303 times)

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My427stang

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #75 on: August 31, 2018, 08:33:08 AM »
I don't understand your question Kevin

1 - More duration generally makes more power, but raises the RPM it makes that power and generally makes the curve have more of a peak (as opposed to a flat curve), and generally loses power down low.
2 - Without matching the cam to the rest of the build, statements like this can cause problems, you cannot come up with a general rule.  Roller cams run from the 230s to 270s @ .050 (can even be higher), and every one is "best" for making power in a certain application
3 - My opinion hasn't changed, for your desired use, I wouldn't be chasing cams yet.  Get the car going, get the EFI working, no worries about breaking in the cam because it is already, and then make a decision later.  With your setup, the car will be faster than a factory Cobra

Chasing a horsepower without specific application and environment number is  a fool's errand.  Normal operating range, desired use of the car, fuel availability, all the other engine components, environmental (weather, temp, stop and go traffic) all go into the choice of a cam
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

427HISS

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #76 on: September 03, 2018, 12:13:17 PM »
Anyone ?

My427stang

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #77 on: September 03, 2018, 03:13:45 PM »
Mine didn't count?  or do you disagree?
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

427HISS

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #78 on: September 03, 2018, 11:23:14 PM »
No, just more ideas and discussion. I meant to say anyone,... else.
 No disrespect my friend.
« Last Edit: September 03, 2018, 11:28:07 PM by 427HISS »

My427stang

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #79 on: September 04, 2018, 07:04:33 AM »
I think the reason you aren't getting more answers is the question is too vague

"How drunk can I get until I am too drunk?"

A cam is a trade off, just like the gears on a bike.  Is 1st gear or 10th gear better?  It depends if you want to go uphill or downhill.  As you add duration, or change any cam characteristic, you gain somewhere and lose somewhere, and it has to match end use and other parts to be "right"

If you are asking about your Cobra, you are likely somewhere between the 224 duration range to the 250 duration range, however, the bigger you get, the harder to tune (or at least you need a good EFI system and some practice with it), and less low end you will have, and to quote our president, the difference in that range is "YUGE"

Try not to think about components, think about systems, where do you want your whole car to behave?  idle to 5000, with most of the time cruising? most of the time on I-80 doing 80? 0-100 at the dragstrip with a peak of 6500 and a 6900 rpm shift point?  Little or no concern about tuning?  All of these are "perfect" for one owner, horrible for another.

Also, remember the cam alone doesn't determine RPM range, intake, exhaust, cam, even the tops of the pistons (less on an FE than others)all determine how deep it breathes.  And if given the choice over big cam, bad heads, or good heads, smaller cam, I'll pick the latter on the street

Here's something that will go against a lot of normal logic.  My short bed F100 4x4, had a stout 445 in it, likely 500 hp range and pretty much matched well.  I temporarily put a nice little zero deck 390 in it, baby cam, likely 350 HP.  The truck is more fun with the little engine, little cam, to the point I am rethinking how (and if) I am going to do the 462 on the stand.  It pulls hard, makes nice music, just less than the 445, but it fits the truck real well

Now for you, say your engine is 440 HP, a cam swap gets you to 475, you need to think through where you pay for that.  Good thing on a Cobra, assuming you have a high end EFI you can adjust, overcamming isn't as bad because it's light, and loss of bottom end can help with traction.  However, go too far and you may not like in town and 5th gear. Also, I mentioned it earlier, remember, add a few hundred RPM for a shift point, as you get above a 5800-6000 RPM HP peak, you start getting to where parts matter a little bit more if shifting at 6400, and who knows how Dove built that motor.

---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

427HISS

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #80 on: September 04, 2018, 08:29:07 PM »
Lot's of good thinking and explanations Ross.
My problem is wanting the best with a lower budjet, high HP with kick in the ass low rpm to mid TQ, with a nasty sounding rumble.

I grew up with dirt track racing modifides then to 360 and 410 cu. sprint car racing, so racing engines are in my heart and spirit.
NOTHING,....sounds like a sprint engine, with Little weight off the crank. The ramp up and down at idle is amazing sounding, then hit the fuel hard and it comes alive. Same kind of feeling with a top fuel engine. Nothing like them.

So, since both are not possible in a street engine, I need to some of both, sound, show and go.

I also grew up in the "Pro-Street" days, with blown big blocks, fats on the back, skinnies up front, giving all the sences a big boost !
If I could afford a BBM's new aluminum 427 side oiler, their heads  etc, or a new Shelby system with big bores and stroke and with my stack injection to over 482 cid, for 600 HP (+) it would be very close to my dream motor. A friend  has a KC 482 engine and cost around $18,000 with apx 550 HP.

I almost bought a 460 block and stroked and bored it up to 557 cu. Easy 650 HP (+) for under $11,000, depending.....
But, I wanted to stay with a 427 Cobra's FE engine and I'm not sure it would fit under my hood scoop. Some brands of replica's do others don't.

I will spend the extra for a stand alone laptop computer system over the EZ learn computer that came with my EFI.

Being my last engine, I want to try and get all aspects what I need and want, with a tight bugjet.


My427stang

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #81 on: September 05, 2018, 06:52:50 AM »
So, Kevin, been riding this with you for a while and as a fellow Nebraskan I say this  You want as close as you can to your perfect engine, but on a decent budget to buy parts but not retail labor. (correct me if I am wrong)  As they say: fast, reliable, or cheap, pick any 2

Unfortunately, there is no such engine that will do everything you want without some dough.  However, if you really want to try, I would pull the heads yourself, check what you have for pistons and then have someone like Gessford cc the heads, figure out your compression and make sure springs will work and pick a cam for desired use, we can help when we know what you have.  In fact, it will likely be minutes after you post that me, Jay, Brent, Barry or a host of others can recommend a cam. 

May even want to consider scouting some used parts, a good flat tappet that is already broken in would save some concern and money, and maybe Gessford even has something lying around that would give you some snotty chop.  A roller would take away some worry, but you still need to know what's in the enginee, because if Dove built it with a 270H cam, I doubt he used pistons with deep valve pockets, and to pick a cam, you need to know what's in there before you spend over 1000 dollars on cam, distributor gear, etc just to smack the valves against the pistons

However, we know no more about what Dove put in that engine now than we did when you bought it.  If you want more, you have to do more and that means going inside to make this motor do what you want
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cammerfe

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #82 on: September 05, 2018, 12:37:37 PM »
I built a 397 FE a while back in which I put a Comp cam with similar numbers---sorta. Mine had 242-248, on 110, but with a bit more lift. When we fired it on the dyno, I was completely happy! Sounded great.

With a set of done-up (by Wayne Kuchtyn) F-5 Dove heads and intake and an 850 Holley dyno carb (I was going to go to EFI in the truck), it made 499 HP on the first full pull, and had no problem going to 7500, with the peak at about 6900. Comp picked the details from such information as head flow (from a Superflow) and compression, (about 11.5-1)---and truck weight and gearing.

I told them I wanted the most possible while providing the street manners of the 'AA' factory cam in my '64 Custom/427 with 4.11 'town' gears. They got it right the first time!!

My '63 Effie weighed about 3800 and also had 4.11 gears. I'd believe your Cobra---weighs what? about 2500-2600?---will scoot with what you've got there.

KS
« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 12:40:40 PM by cammerfe »

427HISS

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #83 on: September 05, 2018, 06:22:27 PM »
Guys, I'm almost shacking in my boots (actually in my slippers, don't feel well) after speaking on the phone with my engine builder that stole my FE block and parts from many years ago !  I saw him on facebook and sent him a calm message, but stern. He says he has most of my parts, but not the Genesis block. He will be sending them either on Friday or Monday. If true,... I'm excited !
I won't trust him, but I'm hopeful.

It's been 13 years now, Sal I don't recall all the specs, but here are some of what he's sending back.

Like my nephew would say,...I'm STOAKED!    ;D

Callies Compstar BBC  H Beam Rods- # CSB700ES3B8AH
Big end-3.325
Pin end- .990
Material- 4340

MAHLE pitons- PR # 99-921
FF3267375120  9021  01

Melling oil pump.

RobbMc Reglat or & Fuel pump.

MSD Pro Billet Distributor  PN- 8549

MSD 6-AL ignition

MSD 9m plug wires

FE Crank spacer

Polished timing cover

Denso spark plugs

Full gasket set

ARP- full bolt kit (in & out)

Almost every part that Canton has for the FE.

Road racing oil pan with crank scraper, windage tray, gaskets.

Oil pickup

Oil remote kit

Canister fuel filter.

Oil catch can

Accusump- 3qt full system with billet mounts, clamps, electric pro-kit, dash switch, ball valve. etc...

Ram 10.5 dual clutch

Billet aluminum flywheel

Quick Time bellhousing.

CVF - Polished & coated pulley's

I'm sure there's more I'm forgetting after so many years.....






« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 06:34:45 PM by 427HISS »

TomP

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #84 on: September 07, 2018, 09:02:16 PM »
After reading all this stuff. I say get the car running with a carb. 8 stack intake can be put on later. Same deal with cams, easy to change. It isn't like you have eight project cars like me. Take a cue from Rick with the self built EFI 390in his 62 Falcon. He is no rich guy and has had the car up and running with carbs and the EFI.
 Stuff can be changed around after the fact, it's not like the wrong cam is a critical error. But I like to err on the large side. I read the cam catalog FE listings from the bottom up rather than the top down... 6500-9500 rev range? A little high... try the one above.

In a 428 a duration under 230 will not sound nasty, the loud exhaust will make that evident. Most good sounding ones are 250+ duration at .050 but also not usually EFI.

427HISS

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #85 on: September 08, 2018, 01:00:24 PM »
My last duration was 252/260. @050.  501 lift.

But, like mentioned I'll just replace the cam and see how I like the output.

My427stang

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #86 on: September 08, 2018, 03:48:09 PM »
But, like mentioned I'll just replace the cam and see how I like the output.

and springs, and retainers, and maybe even pistons if you don't have valve clearance....

It feels like a democracy, but the engine gets the final vote, and nobody knows whats in it yet
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

427HISS

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #87 on: September 08, 2018, 06:49:21 PM »
Of course....everything will be checked out and buy all new matching valvetrain. I won't be tearing down the block etc.
« Last Edit: September 08, 2018, 06:54:47 PM by 427HISS »

427HISS

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #88 on: July 07, 2019, 05:04:06 PM »
I was reading my first post and had to correct one thing, I said my builder stole 19k.... in parts & money, but it was actually 10k.
The second mention was 10k also, but wanted to revise the first.

Update.

Things are always going slow due to my health, my left arm still hurts and still a year later I can't lift 30lbs, but I did get my Ram bullet flywheel mounted. I started a thread on pilot bushings "Depth Of Trans Input Shaft Into Pilot Bushing'' the bushing, disk and diaphragm went together perfect. Very happy with the billet install tool. I still need to decide on the type of cam, mechanical roller, hydraulic roller and the specs. I have Dove's 1:76 roller rockers. And need to purchase the engine computer. I'll sell the FAST EZ learn computer that came with the injection.

427HISS

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Re: Picking Cam For Electric Fuel Injection ?
« Reply #89 on: July 07, 2019, 05:56:50 PM »
Also, anybody here have a good 427 side oiler block you don't need ?