Starting to understand why building engines may be best left to the professional

[My427stang]

Just because I like to do readbacks....military aviator in me...

So you were at an intake opening point of 7 BTDC when you started...and now you are at 10 BTDC, and you are comfortable with your process and it was repeatable?

If the answer is yes, then it should make a difference, but you could even go to the next slot too and check it  I certainly would, using DCR calcs and 9.98:1 static compression with a 445, you went from  to 7.37:1 to 7.61:1 in the A6 position, another 2 degrees (likely A8 with your gear set) will bring you to 7.74 and will drive the vacuum and torque, especially part throttle, even higher.

As far as a cause, looks like you either have a cam that was ground a little goofy, a keyway in the crank that's a little off, or an oddly made timing set.  In any case, that really explains your low vacuum

Just to be 100% clear, I would certainly feel better where you are, but if you are confident your numbers are right, I'd be shooting for more (as originally planned) given the application

[My427stang]

You can button it up and know that you're pretty stinkin close to the card or you can stick it on an a8 keyway and advance it a little more. 

Comet, "straight up" actually means that the ICL equals the LSA.  He isn't straight up right now, he's actually around 2 degrees advanced.  I'm only stating that because a lot of guys call putting the cam in the way it's ground "putting it in straight up" and although that term is thrown around a lot, it's technically incorrect.

Just saw this one, I agree with going with the A8...heck I'd go more if I could...and a big "AMEN" on the straight up definition   Commonly misused

[Yellow Truck]

I have to run to a cardiac stress test for my wife, but I'll ask this now so I can get on with it when I get back - how do I ensure the two gears are aligned when installing? I noticed in my test fits that when tightened down there was a little friction on the chain releasing from the lower sprocket on the "loose" side causing it to catch on the gear. I assume a clean release is the goal.

I am assuming the timing gear only goes on one way (timing marks to the front) and there is nothing to space either gear away from the block.

I have the Ford shop manual and it calls for 34 to 45 ft-lbs of torque on the camshaft gear to camshaft bolt and damper to crank bolt it calls for 70 to 90 ft-lbs. Are these values correct for the aftermarket cam and crank?

[blykins]

Timing gears go with dots/marks to the outside. 

Sometimes it's helpful to back the crank gear out a little bit so you can get the cam gear started on the cam without shoving the cam back in the block.  Get the crank gear on, get the dot at 12:00, put the cam gear and chain on (with the dot pointing down towards the dot on the crank gear), get your bolt started (with Loctite), snug it up, then take a drift/punch/etc. and push the crank gear on all the way.  Tighten the cam bolt up and torque. 

Everytime I bolt one up, I will take a 4-5" straightedge and lay it across the faces of both gears to make sure they're flush with each other.  Helps point out any issues (mainly with SBF engines). 

Cam bolt torques to 65 lb-ft. 

I torque aftermarket balancer bolts to 125 lb-ft.

[Yellow Truck]

On A8 I'm seeing open 0.050 at 11 BTDC, close 0.050 at 43 ABDC, and peak lift of .337 at 104 ATDC. Looks kosher.

Brent, thanks for your instructions. When I was happy with the timing I put a small straight(ish) edge on it and the cam was more than 1/8 deeper than the crank, hammered it back with a drift, then the cam was high, tightened it down and they are level and the chain releases freely.

I have some blue Locktite, is that adequate for the cam bolt? Also, my ARP cam bolt has a flat, red, translucent, plastic band, about 1/4 inch wide  about halfway down the bolt. I have no recollection of this from the initial install. Any idea what it is? Ads for the bolt on Summit don't show this. Could it have been in the cam?

Picture is worth a few words:
IMG_3417 by Fred Snoyd, on Flickr

[Barry_R]

That red band is dried red loctite

[Yellow Truck]

Well no much wonder I don't remember it. Guess that answers my other question - I need red locktite!

Thank you Barry.

[Drew Pojedinec]

Use red.... take it off with air tools  

[My427stang]

So, call me nervous but

That cam, installed dot to dot should have an .050 intake valve opening of 9 BTDC, 8 advanced "should" be 17 BTDC, but you are at 11 BTDC

So something is off by 6 degrees.  I am OK with that, but have never seen a combo with a modern cam that far off.

Here is my statement and if you are confident, good enough for me.  If this was in my shop, I would take the degree kit, piston stop, and put all the parts back on the bench.  Then I would do a complete fresh setup, including the piston stop and finding TDC, maybe even changing how I mounted the wire so I had to change procedures.

Then I would verify my valve events, if they are still good, great, but since you aren't checking valve clearance, I think it is incredibly important to maike sure you didn't make a mistake.

If that cam is on 100 ICL because you repeated an error, you may bend all the intake valves at start up.  If you are sure, I will be quiet, but as good as it has come in, I am concerned of that much variance

[blykins]

Double checking would be prudent.  If it's repeatable with a new setup, you're gold.

I have seen a hand full of combos be that far out with all new parts.  Just ran into one the other day that I had to retard 8 degrees to get it on spec.

If this was a solid cam, I'd say pull the plugs and put a couple of .100" shims between the rockers and valve stems.  If it would roll over with no issue, then I'd call it good.  With a juice lifter it's a little more tricky. 

[Yellow Truck]

"Juice lifter" took me a second.

Ross - I pretty much did as you say. Took everything off the engine, moved the position of the degree wheel and indicator wire so I was looking at it from a different position, confirmed TDC with the piston stop (for about the 20th time - I think I may be wearing a notch in #1), adjusted the angles on the degree wheel and pushrod to make sure I had a clean up/down position, confirmed zero and peak lift over 4 revolutions, and then took the measurements on A6 again, then took it apart and did A8.

Was considering doing the clearance check - I have a crappy borescope but it doesn't work well enough to use to watch the clearance while turning the engine.

If I  do the clearance check I have a dumb question - I've seen videos on using air pressure into the spark plug hole to keep the valve from falling in. If the piston is at TDC won't it prevent the valve from dropping into the cylinder? I'll have to pick up a tool to remove the spring and find some test springs but I should be able to.

[My427stang]

Theoretically it's fine to just put it at TDC, but can be funky when you try to get the keepers back on because the valve can drop a little and it's difficult to grab the valve to reassemble.

Air is easy, also you can take clothes line rope and pushing it in the hole and lightly load the head of the valve buy turning the motor

I'd really like to see you check clearance as outlined earlier, it would give you peace of mind and whether it feels like it or not, you are doing very good and precise work, may as well keep it going through fire up

[Yellow Truck]

I'm leaning towards doing the check, my reason is it really bothers me that my first measurements before taking it apart indicated the cam was behaving as per the cam card, but when I pulled the gears to advance it and re-measured I had funny numbers until I stopped using the 5 inch extension on the dial and went to using the pushrod. Since that change all my measurements have been repeatable, but it worries me.

Are the checking springs specific to an FE? One other question - do you think this will do to get the springs and retainers off?

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/wmr-w84001/overview/

[funsummer]

i had a RPM 4.250 stroke crank that had the keyway slot machined 8 degrees off tdc.
I timed the thing 2 many times to prove to myself that the error was the keyway slot.
Check then double check.

[My427stang]

I'm leaning towards doing the check, my reason is it really bothers me that my first measurements before taking it apart indicated the cam was behaving as per the cam card, but when I pulled the gears to advance it and re-measured I had funny numbers until I stopped using the 5 inch extension on the dial and went to using the pushrod. Since that change all my measurements have been repeatable, but it worries me.

Are the checking springs specific to an FE? One other question - do you think this will do to get the springs and retainers off?

https://www.summitracing.com/int/parts/wmr-w84001/overview/

That will work just fine, especially given that you only have one (maybe 2) to take off,  they work great just slow if trying to do many

I am not sure what to tell you on your procedures, however, if in doubt, the best thing you can do is check clearance from 15 BTDC until 5 ATDC, no rockers, just pushing it down and measuring.

Checking springs just need to hold things up, rocker springs, something you can find at the hardware store, it just basically has to be a little longer than 2 inches uncompressed and soft enough for you to push down easy