Starting to understand why building engines may be best left to the professional

[jayb]

Sure, you can advance the engine by flicking the starter.  It's easier with the plugs out, but not absolutely necessary.  If you have a Ford starter on the fender you can also just short the terminal that the battery comes into with the closest small terminal, with a screwdriver, in a pinch.  A starter button is easier though.

Good idea to check the pushrods...

[Yellow Truck]

This morning I had one of my less bright moments. Had to move the truck into the driveway so I could pull the motorhome out of storage to do some work on it and get into a diesel shop on Monday.

It started but was running as badly as I've ever heard an engine. Shut it down right away and went and peered under the hood. After I did the preload adjustment last week I put the plugs back in and put the leads on the passenger side but was interrupted and forgot to put the driver's side on. Four cylinder FE bad idea.

Fired up fine after than and I got it into the drive way so I had the curb for the motorhome (42 feet, needs all of it).

Later in the day I got the passenger side valve cover off and pulled the rocker and pushrods. All straight - tested them on a piece of tempered glass that I then dropped while putting it away. Amazing how 1/4  inch drop can turn it into little tiny squares.

I'll be dealing with the oil restrictors and measuring a couple of other positions before I put it away, but using a measuring pushrod on the #1 exhaust I got 8.7385 inches. The actual pushrod is 8.7465. Seems to be reasonable.

Barry tells me the Morel lifters have between 120 and 150 thousands of travel, and 1 turn of the screw is a little more than 40 thousands, so the difference shouldn't be significant.

I did see a few witness marks on the pushrods, this is the worst - since I've never looked at pushrods that have been run I don't really know what to expect. You can see two parallel marks about 1/3 from the left of the visible rod.

[cjshaker]

That rub looks pretty insignificant. I wouldn't fret about it unless you see it start getting much worse.

If it makes you feel any better, about 35 years ago, I did a tune up on a friends 302 powered '70 fastback. We took it out for a drive and the car felt lazy. Lazier than usual with it's basically stock 302. Took it back to the house and popped the hood...and discovered the same thing you did. Forgot to put on one whole bank of plug wires. Yeah, pretty sure that just MAY have been the cause.   I was surprised it even ran, but the really odd part was how smooth the engine was. It didn't buck or shake, just sat there idling...like a 4 cylinder..lol

[fryedaddy]

i had 1 plug wire came off going down the highway and my 428 started backfiring out the mufflers,i guess that unburned gas in that cyl was igniting in the exhaust

[Yellow Truck]

I was astonished it ran at all. Didn't backfire as it only ran a few seconds and the exhaust never got hot.

Will watch the weather for a good opportunity to get the other side apart and take a few other pushrod measurements, although I am now less concerned with my measuring skills and think my valve train issues are the result of my adjusting skills.

It was windy here today so I did everything quickly since the truck is outside and I don't want it full of dust.

[Yellow Truck]

Winds were calmer today so I got a chance to get the other side off. Measured an intake lifter and found it to be 8.7255 compared to the pushrod length of 8.7465. I don't think it is a problem.

Having said that I found two of the pushrods had worse witness marks than the other side had.

I tried to find something that was a snug fit to the oil passage under the rocker stud, the only thing that would fit and was snug was a 3/16 allen key. Measured corner to corner it is 7/32s on a caliper. I could go and try and find a rod that length, but is there an reason I can put a little of the silicone I used on the intake in there? Since the two restrictors I have fell down the passage I am assuming there is lots of oil flow around them as well as through them.

[Barry_R]

That's not a rub worth worrying about.  I have had engines with a clearly visible 1/16 inch of clearance show rubs like that.  Asked Kaase about that stuff once and he told me that a light rub was fine - calms things down when they vibrate.  Most non-FE engines rub the pushrods on purpose - guide plates...

[My427stang]

I am with Barry, we build to not rub, but if the rub doesn't bind the play of rocker it's just acting like a guide plate.  460s, small blocks, Chebby's run all day long with built in contact

The second picture in this last pair looks a little odd, almost like damage or a pinch not rubbing, but I assume it's the camera

[Yellow Truck]

You are right, it is the camera. Hard to get a picture of a curved surface, especially in direct sunlight.

[Yellow Truck]

This is getting annoying. I got a nice calm day to put back the pushrods and rocker assemblies, and then started on re-doing the preload. The engine hasn't been run in over a week, so there is little oil in the top of the engine.

With the adjuster screws fully out the first two lifters seemed a bit mushy - I could push them down pretty far with my fingers although there was no free play. If I pressed on the rocker I could get an 1/8th of an inch of movement with no problem.

I adjusted them down one full turn from the top and moved on to cylinder 2. The video below shows the difference. With the adjuster full out, the cylinder 2 intake lifter has no free play at all and I can't even move it with the leverage of the allen key.

I stopped work on it because I don't understand what I'm seeing.

I used a switch to flick the starter and was setting the intake with the exhaust valve opening, and the exhaust with the intake valve closing.
https://youtu.be/frVZl7jj84w

[Yellow Truck]

Bought a $9 borescope on Amazon and tried to use it to inspect the lifters. You get what you pay for and I wound up laying a pad on top of the engine bay and laying down on it to look down the passages. Not easy since I'm 6'4" and 230 lbs, and I have a bad hip (not pretty either, I assume).

The pushrods are centered on the lifters, and when I rotate the engine with the starter while looking I don't see any strange behaviour.

Yet here I am - #1 intake and exhaust had fairly easy movement (as per the video) before and after preload adjustment. There was a tiny bit of free movement - less than 1/4 turn of the adjuster - and after that was taken up the rocker could be rocked backwards to compress the lifter with a finger. #2 exhaust was the same, but #2 intake and one of the #3 lifters (don't remember) have no movement. I can rotate the pushrod easily (not like a pushrod that is closing a valve), but NO up and down free movement and I can't rock the rocker backwards at all (this is with the adjuster turned all the way out).

On the #2 there is a no resistance to rotating the adjustment screw for the first 1/8 of a turn, then it starts to bind from pressure back from the pushrod.

I don't know what the heck to think. I have been turning the engine with the starter and have turned it over a dozen rotations in the past 24 hours, and today had some oil running down the rockers and springs. I can't imagine that there is so much oil pressure in those lifters that it is causing this.

I'm afraid to finish the assembly and restart it.

[My427stang]

So, if I understand correctly, you don't trust your valve adjustment.

If it was my job to do, normally I would use the EOIC method, but I think in your case it may be better to simplify

I would follow the firing order and bring each cylinder to TDC, but use a ratchet and a socket, turning the direction of engine rotation.  With a street cam like that I cannot imagine any ramp issues.  I do bump the starter for solids and for EOIC, but the more we can slow this down to a repeatable, by cylinder, process, the more I think you will be comfortable

Then take your time to get to zero lash on one rocker at a time. Make some slop, make it go away, doi it again, and teach yourself to feel for the slop, ignore all the other stuff like how squishy it feels, or how much resistance, just figure out how to feel when there is more space available than there is pushrod length, then learn to make that go away.  Yearn to be able to say this  "I am positive that there is zero slop between the rocker and pushrod and top of the lifter, but the plunger is not compressed" 

THEN, when you are confident, for THAT rocker, add a careful and measured full turn of the wrench and hold the wrench as you tighten the lock nut and go to the next one.

Each rocker, you will get better at feeling it.  Remember this is preload and it has a window of "good enough" Do one, turn the motor by hand, and do the next until you get to #8

Remember, if you are cranking and there is oil pressure, some lifters will be in a position to fill and have little spring pressure, others will have pushed the oil out and maybe not refilled, so ignore all that and just think "available space for the pushrod" 

The last thing I'd say is maybe it's time to dump the adjustables and go factory style.  You likely will NEVER have to adjust again, so you could just set up for factory, sell off your stuff and build an uber-reliable system. FWIW, I am doing a 10.25:1 396 with a stout little hyd cam and I have no intent to deal with adjustable rockers, it could be an easy way for you to sleep at night LOL

[jayb]

On the #2 there is a no resistance to rotating the adjustment screw for the first 1/8 of a turn, then it starts to bind from pressure back from the pushrod.

Pretty sure that the difference you are seeing between the lifters is that some of them are filled with oil and some aren't.  Try this:  Tighten down the adjustment screw on one of the ones that won't turn down, maybe go 1 turn, give it half an hour, and then back it off to the original position.  If you can then retighten it 1 turn without the pressure you felt before, then that's the issue.  The valve spring pressure has forced the oil out of the lifter as far as you've gone on the adjustment.  Seeing some of the lifters retain oil like this is not abnormal, so don't worry about it.

If after backing it off it is still difficult to tighten down, then you may be at the bottom of the travel for that lifter.  In that case you'd want to back it off a couple turns, and if its still not springy, when you push down on the rocker, that plunger might be bottomed out and stuck in the lifter.  Not likely with new lifters, I don't think...

[Yellow Truck]

Ross/Jay - thanks for the advice.

I get that I want "zero slop" and the mushiness is not the issue, Ross thanks for putting it so clearly. The problem is that I'm starting with zero slop on two lifters and not sure where to start the pre-load because I can't tell if the lifter is compressed. Jay, I will try as you suggest to press some oil out of the lifter and re-gain the mushy feel. I did turn the engine so the #2 intake valve is open, so max spring pressure was on the lifter but I didn't leave it there. What I think I'll do is leave it in that position for a few hours and see the lifter bleeds down.

To be clear, I have all the adjustment screws full turned out to start (however I've done the pre-load on #1 intake and exhaust, and #2 exhaust so they are down a little more than one turn).

If the plunger was at the bottom of the lifter and stuck I would have the opposite problem - too much free movement of the pushrod. With the adjustment screw out all the way I have no free movement, and the lifter is as hard as a rock.

[My427stang]

Ross/Jay - thanks for the advice.

I get that I want "zero slop" and the mushiness is not the issue, Ross thanks for putting it so clearly. The problem is that I'm starting with zero slop on two lifters and not sure where to start the pre-load because I can't tell if the lifter is compressed. Jay, I will try as you suggest to press some oil out of the lifter and re-gain the mushy feel. I did turn the engine so the #2 intake valve is open, so max spring pressure was on the lifter but I didn't leave it there. What I think I'll do is leave it in that position for a few hours and see the lifter bleeds down.

To be clear, I have all the adjustment screws full turned out to start (however I've done the pre-load on #1 intake and exhaust, and #2 exhaust so they are down a little more than one turn).

If the plunger was at the bottom of the lifter and stuck I would have the opposite problem - too much free movement of the pushrod. With the adjustment screw out all the way I have no free movement, and the lifter is as hard as a rock.

I guess what I am trying to say is that if you know you are zero for a single valve, then preload is mathematical based on thread pitch. Don't even think about it, true zero + 1 turn, you are done, or likely 1.25 turns I think on an FE.  Also remember it is preload, which has a wide range of good enough, it is not bearing clearance or ring gap, nor is it a tuning tool.

THEN when all 16 are done, start it, if a lifter is stuck, you'll have a skip, if not, you are done.  I am trying to say the critical part is the zero lash, then it's just a turn of the adjuster and learn from what the engine does. 

My thought is you are trying to measure and analyze something precisely that doesn't need to be, and cannot be precisely measured with the intake on anyway. Your comments on squish and resistance are just confusing you IMHO

Additionally, if all of them end up in the same place in terms of threads showing on the adjuster (or at least all the intakes match each other and same for exhaust) you have a warm fuzzy you did it right