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Messages - RJP

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241
FE Technical Forum / Re: My mind is wandering - port vs throttle body EFI
« on: July 07, 2017, 05:05:36 PM »
I'm not being silly. Ever watch the old mechanical diesel Greyhound buses at altitude? They puke black smoke because a mechanical injection system does not know the engine is at altitude. They inject the same volume of fuel regardless of air density. A carb will deliver less fuel due to the less dense air passing thru the carb. If you don't believe me read what David Morrison of Pro-stock racers Reher-Morrison wrote about re-jetting for altitude when they raced at Denver or other high altitude tracks. Quote: "It is a misconception that you must lean out a carburetor at high altitude The fact is that a properly tuned engine will use the same jets in Denver as it does at sea level" He goes on to say: "In this age of digital everything carburetors have an undeserved reputation as a low tech device. In fact a racing carb.  is a very ingenious system. A carb responds to differential pressure and therefor it self-compensates for changes in barometric pressure. The gas in the floatbowl is always subject to the prevailing atmospheric pressure; the jets deliver fuel in proportion to the differential between the pressure in the float bowl and the pressure in the induction system. So when barometric pressure drops, as it does so dramatically in Denver, there is less pressure differential and therefore fuel flow is reduced accordingly." When races get down to the last couple of thousands of a second difference I'd say he knows what he is talking about so I'll take the word of a professional builder/tuner so well versed in tuning, racing and making power plus my own personal experiences traveling at high altitude. One misconception of yours that jumps out at me is you say at "a significant elevation you still have a fairly strong vacuum signal pulling on your carb"... Your vacuum signal is proportionally reduced at elevation. And yes, you can jet too lean no matter what altitude you are running at if you try.     

242
FE Technical Forum / Re: My mind is wandering - port vs throttle body EFI
« on: July 07, 2017, 01:10:44 PM »
Quote from: Adam Dice on July 05, 2017, 03:52:35 PM
Quote from: RJP on July 01, 2017, 07:02:29 AM
Quote from: unclewill on June 30, 2017, 08:51:14 AM
The "self learning" EFI starts with a too rich base map for safety and leans itself out through time.  The FiTech computer allows for fine tuning for most parameters - I suspect most TBI retrofit systems offer the same.
Anyone who is unclear on why EFI trumps a carb on ANY engine needs only to drive their vehicle from sea level to 8000' of elevation without opening the hood.
So whats the problem with carbs at altitude? Jet change? Power valve change? Your statement is simply untrue. No hood needs to be lifted with a carb equipped car to correct for altitude. I have made countless trips over Tioga Pass, Ca. [alt. 9945'] in 3 different carb equipped cars and not once did I need to lift the hood to adjust for altitude. All 3 cars have 3310/780 Holleys and ran just fine. No puking black smoke, no loading up, no stumbling or flat spots, all ran fine. A carb will respond in kind to atmosphere or lack of as fuel delivery is directly related to the amount of air flowing thru the carb. Less air...less fuel, its that simple.

My experience with carbs is that they are not that good at big changes in altitude. If I take my Galaxie from Billings (3300' in elevation) up over the Beartooth Pass (10,947' in elevation) it definitely is a rich pig at the top. Do I have to change jets to get over the top? No, but if I was to be in that elevation full time, I would definitely have to re-jet.  The same goes for dirt bikes, snowmobiles and everything else I have run in both low and high elevations and also at the temperature extremes.  Over a small elevation range (1,500 feet or so), it's not as big a deal.

Also, I am still getting some drive time on my Fitech on my 428 with a XE274 cam, but it seems to do fine with 9.5" of idle vacuum and cam lobe center in the 106-110 area.  The efi has definitely helped it to run a lot better in those areas just under the powerband of the cam.  I can cruise down the street in that 1500 to 2000 rpm range and it is plumb happy now.  I am definitely not anti-carb, but liking the efi so far.
Is your Galaxie puking black smoke at altitude? Don't confuse lack of power with "pig rich", not the same. The only effect I see [feel] is lack of power at anything above 5-6000' elev. Defiantly a loss of power due to lack of atmospheric pressure but the carb will respond to that lack of atmospheric pressure because the air flow that produces the vacuum signal thru the carb venturis is reduced...Less vacuum, less fuel pulled thru the jets. A properly calibrated and tuned carb on a well tuned engine will "cruise down the street in that 1500 to 2000 rpm range" and be "plumb happy" as well. Am I knocking EFI? No, I think it is perfectly fine for those who embrace new technology and like the benefits of tuning with a laptop computer. I also believe EFI has its place in hotrodding. For me personally I like the simplicity of a carburetor knowing that if I'm in the middle of nowhere I can get a carb working with a few simple hand tools and not deal with the myriad of sensors and electronics EFIs usually need.

243
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: I am back in the fold
« on: July 02, 2017, 10:02:32 PM »
Stunning car...Best looking of all the 60s models. But then again I'm a bit partial to Starliners.

244
FE Technical Forum / Re: My mind is wandering - port vs throttle body EFI
« on: July 01, 2017, 07:02:29 AM »
Quote from: unclewill on June 30, 2017, 08:51:14 AM
The "self learning" EFI starts with a too rich base map for safety and leans itself out through time.  The FiTech computer allows for fine tuning for most parameters - I suspect most TBI retrofit systems offer the same.
Anyone who is unclear on why EFI trumps a carb on ANY engine needs only to drive their vehicle from sea level to 8000' of elevation without opening the hood.
So whats the problem with carbs at altitude? Jet change? Power valve change? Your statement is simply untrue. No hood needs to be lifted with a carb equipped car to correct for altitude. I have made countless trips over Tioga Pass, Ca. [alt. 9945'] in 3 different carb equipped cars and not once did I need to lift the hood to adjust for altitude. All 3 cars have 3310/780 Holleys and ran just fine. No puking black smoke, no loading up, no stumbling or flat spots, all ran fine. A carb will respond in kind to atmosphere or lack of as fuel delivery is directly related to the amount of air flowing thru the carb. Less air...less fuel, its that simple.

245
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Early Lincoln 4 Speed Automatic, MEL Era AND MEL Forum Login
« on: January 29, 2017, 02:03:34 PM »
Quote from: chris401 on January 29, 2017, 08:57:49 AM
Must not have been very strong compared to the Cruise-O-Matic. A 4 speed automatic seems the way to go over a 3 speed if it held up. Wikipedia mentioned a fire destroyed the plant the Hydramatics were built in and left Lincoln and Cadillac out of trannys for a time.
The Hydramatic was a very stout transmission. But they had a few drawbacks such as the simple fluid coupling in place of a more efficient torque converter,  Low gear was very low and in most cases useless for anything other than stump pulling. The trans was also very heavy as the case is cast iron and all rotating parts were iron or steel. B&M made them famous with their "B&M Hydro-stick" in the 50s and it was about the only choice if you wanted to race with an automatic as all other factory automatics were not suited for racing due in part to lack of gear shift control, strength and few people understood the complex hydraulic system of the valve bodies and governors. The Chrysler aluminum Torque Flite was the 1st factory automatic that had the potential due to it's "Simpson design" simplicity and the strength to be used for racing. 

246
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Early Lincoln 4 Speed Automatic, MEL Era AND MEL Forum Login
« on: January 29, 2017, 12:48:09 AM »
The GM Hydra-matic was never factory installed behind any MEL engines that I know of. The GM 4 sp. Hydro was used in the 49 thru 55 Lincolns behind the 317" & 341" Lincoln/truck OHV engine as well as the 49 thru 51 flathead Lincoln engine.

247
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Holley vs. AVS... opinions...
« on: January 01, 2017, 01:57:10 PM »
Quote from: My427stang on December 31, 2016, 05:42:28 PM
Quote from: RJP on December 31, 2016, 02:00:49 PM
What are power valve restrictors? And what modifications to the metering block are needed to accommodate these power valve restrictors?

Keeps your power valves from getting away from you. They can be crazy sometimes  ;)
Damn...I didn't know there was a fix for that. Slippery 'lil suckers, aren't they?...That could explain all those power valves that turned up missing. :o

248
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Holley vs. AVS... opinions...
« on: December 31, 2016, 02:00:49 PM »
Quote from: ericwevans on December 30, 2016, 04:07:01 PM
So I know most people will say Holley.  I'd like to get opinions why.  Traditionally I have been an AFB/AVS guy for the reasons that I believed it to be a better street carb (opinion), there are no gaskets below the fuel line, and with the needles I have the ability to tune the cruise and power separately on the primary side of the carb.  For the first time I am considering a Holley carb, but to get the ability to tune the power valve I am looking at a Holley Track Warrior, or a Holley Ultra XP which come with a significant price difference over an AVS, and both come without a choke which I could probably live with if I had to (gets driven daily, so cold startup might get old).  Since my goal is to tinker and make as much HP while retaining as much fuel mileage as possible I am really looking for the tunability.  The added feature of the XP I really like that I believe will improve drivability is the Idle Air Bypass which allows you to maintain optimal closed throttle blade position and adjust the idle with a different mechanism.

So for current pricing comparison...
Thunder AVS: $420
Holley TW: $490
Holley XP: $697

As a final though, since all I am really looking for is power valve adjustability, has anyone tried or successfully just modified a plain jane 4150 metering block for power valve restrictors?  A standard 4150 is only $431.

So should I pay the Holley premium?  And if so, why.  :-)
What are power valve restrictors? And what modifications to the metering block are needed to accommodate these power valve restrictors?

249
FE Technical Forum / Re: Balancing of different FE assembly
« on: December 07, 2016, 02:46:14 PM »
It is remotely possible that you have a 406 block [also 4.13" bore] easiest way to tell is the 406 block has the 2 bolt motor mount bosses whereas all 428 blocks have the 4 bolt mounts...Just a thought.

250
FE Technical Forum / Re: 406 build
« on: December 07, 2016, 02:40:54 PM »
Personally I would have had the block sonic checked before buying pistons as 406 cylinders can be notoriously thin.  Factory bore oversize recommendation is only .015" Some have successfully bored 406 blocks +.030" but either they were lucky or...? On the EDC heads I would not use them if you are looking to maximize quench. The machined combustion chambers remove too much quench area leaving a 'almost' open chamber. I would use the C2SZ-C heads. Make sure you check piston to valve clearance with those Egge pistons as they are usually made as factory replacements and may not have valve reliefs as the orig. 406 pistons were without valve reliefs, IIRC. The AA cam has .500" lift whereas the 1962 406 cam was .479" Small difference in lift but valve timing and duration may cause lots of grief with p/v clearance.

251
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Cylinder Head Equipment
« on: December 01, 2016, 05:01:11 PM »
If you have the patience of Jobe you can find screaming good deals out there. I bought a very nice Sioux 645 valve grinder + seat grinding equipment that came out of a ...[Gasp!] Cheevrooolay dealership. I like dealership equipment as they don't get used and abused as much as a machine coming from a machine shop that sees daily use. In fact this machine & equipment was stored in the back of the shop as it had not been used in many years. The only use[abuse] the machine saw was the guy I bought it from used the valve grinder to sharpen his screwdrivers, knives and anything else that would fit. After replacing the grinding wheel, a chuck drive belt and some minor adjustments it works perfectly. It does not perform quite as well as a large wheel machine [wheel surface speed] it does a fine job if you take a little extra time grinding and keep the wheel properly dressed. I also bought a Van Norman seat/guide setup from a shop that was closing their doors, owner wanted to retire. Again, not the top of the line equipment but good enough for my home shop that does limited work confined mainly to FE and 385 engine work. These machines have saved me a not-so-small fortune in dollars and time by being able to do work that you would otherwise pay and wait on an outside shop to do. Kinda nice to pull a set of heads one day and reinstall fresh heads the next day and all it costs is gaskets and some valve stem seals. Also a side benefit is when you have some extra time or nothing else to do you can freshen up a set or a couple sets of heads just to keep in stock, then doing a valve job is just a simple one day swap. 

252
FE Technical Forum / Re: High vol or standard water pump? 61-64 or 65+?
« on: November 04, 2016, 02:49:19 PM »
Quote from: GJCAT427 on November 04, 2016, 05:40:46 AM
RJP, I went to the stewart sight and they show pictures of the pump catagories  and the one that shows FEs is marked as 429/460. Suppose its a typo? it does have a different prt # than the 429/460 in the next picture.
Yes they do and that is a problem...I emailed them for some clarity on the FE/460 pump confusion and never heard back. The web site indicated 2 separate part numbers so I would have to assume that there are 2 different pumps for the 2 separate engine families but you know what "assume" means? LOL ::) It was this confusion that led me to Summit's Flowkooler pump...that and the free shipping for anything over $99.00. However the Flowkooler was not without it's problems. After installing the pump and running the engine I noticed the w/p-alt. belt with some strange wear on about half the surface [the flat side] and found the belt rubbing on the w/p inlet neck. I don't know if it was due to the size of the pump pulley or the casting was off by a few degrees. A little work with a die grinder provided just enough clearance to eliminate the contact. I didn't have that problem with the Stewart pump thats on my 66 Fairlane GTA. I'd buy either pump again rather than waste my time with another dime store pump.   

253
FE Technical Forum / Re: High vol or standard water pump? 61-64 or 65+?
« on: November 03, 2016, 01:27:53 PM »
More on Flow-kooler water pumps. I removed a cheap dime store w/p with a stamped steel impeller and installed a new F/K pump on my 66 Galaxie 428 that always had some sort of issue running on the hot side, not over heating but in the 195-215 range depending on the engine load and outside air temp.  The 'test' came on the last road trip that included a very winding 2-2.5 mile 9-10% grade that the Galaxie always heated up to 215+/- and the engine would ping and rattle badly. The new pump flowed enough coolant at low rpm to prevent any heating issue at all. Water temp stayed at or close to the 180F thermostat with no pinging, detonation or rattling. I will also recommend Stewart water pumps also as these use a proper centrifugal impeller that moves water smoothly rather than beats the water into submission. Think along the lines of a boat propeller vs. a paddle wheel boat.

254
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: Modern Over Dramatic Twist On My Favorite Movie
« on: October 27, 2016, 12:01:36 AM »
That movie was a good reason for a road trip. I wanted to see where Super Soul [Cleavon Little] broadcast from. After a little internet research I found he did his radio show scene in the Goldfield Hotel. So the wife and I loaded up the car and took off. After a carshow in Bishop we headed down 395 to Big Pine and across 168 to US 95. Heading north we arrived in Goldfield NV, a self proclaimed ghost town with a population of about 300. County seat for Esmeralda County. We found the Goldfield Hotel but could not go in as it has been closed to the public for years. Interesting history as it has been said the hotel is haunted by, among several other ghosts, the ghost of a woman who's newborn baby either died during childbirth or was murdered by the woman's lover and the body was disposed of in a abandon mine shaft... don't know if there is any truth to the story but many people have sighted ghosts in the lobby and on the 1st floor hallway and one room [room 109] is said to be where she "resides" as the room is unusually cold and cameras will not work. The hotel has been featured on The Discovery Channel on haunted houses and buildings and FOX's World Scariest Places.     

255
FE Technical Forum / Re: oil filters
« on: September 05, 2016, 12:08:49 PM »
I've had 2 Fram filters fail, 25-30 lb oil pressure loss. Didn't bother cutting either 1 open, caught it early before any engine damage occurred. Switched to Baldwin or Wix. I buy 'em by the case.

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