Author Topic: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake  (Read 13467 times)

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1967 XR7 GT

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2020, 05:28:38 AM »
Jared, hopefully these pics will help. I wanted to post more last night but didn't have time.


Space for raising the ports is limited due to this depression above them, much like the factory intake. Not really an issue because if someone wanted to raise and hog the ports out for a max effort build, the BBM would be the better choice.




I had thought the same thing, the dent in the casting right above the port would limit porting, so I had mine filled in. I figured if I was going to have it ported, might as well do it right. After porting, the ports flow averaged out to 388 cfm, where a stock "J" averaged port flow is 298 cfm.

Are there any flow numbers on the TFS T Wedge ?  Then, are there any numbers on one that's been ported ?



Richard

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WConley

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2020, 01:33:19 PM »

Not to hijack, but here's another FE cat.  He prefers hanging out on the old Ford Racing jacket, sitting on the sideoiler...





Blue Cat

Bad attitude - Check
Clipped ear - Check
Stumpy tail - Check
Beats up on the Orange Cat across the street - Check


Edit:  Not implying that Blue Cat would whoop Jay's FE Cat!  That's a farm cat.  They pack some nasty power adders.

Many have learned a hard lesson after staging against the orange Farm Truck:



« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 02:24:56 PM by WConley »
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Trick Flow Specialties

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2020, 05:21:54 PM »
Hi FE fans! 

Yes, our new FE Tunnel Wedge intake was released to market last month.  Good news and bad news, sales was higher than expected and we sold out of our first production run more quickly than we expected.  We’re working with our foundry to get more castings and get these back in stock as soon as possible.  The entire industry and supply chain is struggling to keep up with demand and our foundries (Cast and machined right here in Ohio!) are no exception, so it’s tough for us to give a more accurate estimate than “early next year” right now.

From the limited side view from those pics the ports look smaller than the BBM which is more like the stock size. Probably better for a street deal than the big port BBM.
We are aware of at least 2 different versions of the BBM manifold.  We’ve not done a direct comparison, but we understand their early version had larger ports than their later version.  Our design was based off of the OE manifold to get carb locations and overall style, but ports were designed from scratch to optimize flow with our heads.

What is the power range of it on a 427 cube FE?   How does it compare to a medium riser below 6000 RPM?

There are too many variables for anyone to give you a solid answer on this, including heads, compression ratio, cam specs, etc.  But, our Tunnel Wedge intake was designed to be usable for 390-428 CI FE’s in the 500-700hp range, and will deliver peak TQ/power between 3750 - 7500rpm (7500 rpm for those of you that like to gamble!).  Actual HP/TQ peaks will depend heavily on your displacement, heads, and cam selection.  We did our testing on a 396 running our PowerPort 175cc heads, and it did make more power and torque across the RPM range compared to our Track Heat single plane intake.  A more modern carb option on the TW might have produced even better results.

For anyone still interested, ports appear to be a conservative MR design. I'd guess it was designed to work with the ports in their heads (they'd be stupid not to make them that way), and it looks like they could work with just about any standard FE head with some port matching. Just a guess, but I'd think they would work very well with their heads, and are aimed more at the street/strip crowd or smaller CI engines.
Yep, it is a conservative mid-riser design.  We design all of our intakes to perform well right out of the box with our heads.  We also test fit with competitor’s heads to help ensure good compatibility across the market.  The intake runners are designed to taper slightly to allow for port matching.  We test manifolds un-port matched, and can often pick up anywhere from 5-15 hp just through port matching.

The TFS heads do have a turbulence in the intake port flow at ~.610" lift, but with a little work the flow jumps up and keeps flowing.  The TFS Track Head 4V intake manifold flows the best of any 4V intakes out of the box, and jumps up easily with just tweaks.  Better than the old HR 4V manifold.   Joe-JDC
Our testing (and other 3rd party testing) shows strong competition beating flow numbers up to .800” lift.  While we don’t doubt a skilled builder could rework them and achieve better flow numbers above .600” than out of the box, it’s worth noting that a majority of the flow is happening at lower lifts and the valve is only open all the way momentarily, so you need to look at the whole picture not just max lift flow.  Also, there can be significant changes in measured flow numbers depending on flow plate design (or clay) and bore size the heads were flowed with, especially with the shorter port of the FE head.

From what I see there they look pretty good is there anyway that you could pour the intake and see what the total volume is?

While it is tempting, and often common practice, to try to compare one head or manifold to another based on volume, there is much more to airflow than volume and volume is not really a relevant factor.  We are often able to achieve competitive flow numbers with smaller runner and port sizes, and this can often result in better real world performance due to improved velocity and efficient cylinder filling.
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blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2020, 06:17:16 PM »
Hi FE fans! 

Yes, our new FE Tunnel Wedge intake was released to market last month.  Good news and bad news, sales was higher than expected and we sold out of our first production run more quickly than we expected.  We’re working with our foundry to get more castings and get these back in stock as soon as possible.  The entire industry and supply chain is struggling to keep up with demand and our foundries (Cast and machined right here in Ohio!) are no exception, so it’s tough for us to give a more accurate estimate than “early next year” right now.

From the limited side view from those pics the ports look smaller than the BBM which is more like the stock size. Probably better for a street deal than the big port BBM.
We are aware of at least 2 different versions of the BBM manifold.  We’ve not done a direct comparison, but we understand their early version had larger ports than their later version.  Our design was based off of the OE manifold to get carb locations and overall style, but ports were designed from scratch to optimize flow with our heads.

What is the power range of it on a 427 cube FE?   How does it compare to a medium riser below 6000 RPM?

There are too many variables for anyone to give you a solid answer on this, including heads, compression ratio, cam specs, etc.  But, our Tunnel Wedge intake was designed to be usable for 390-428 CI FE’s in the 500-700hp range, and will deliver peak TQ/power between 3750 - 7500rpm (7500 rpm for those of you that like to gamble!).  Actual HP/TQ peaks will depend heavily on your displacement, heads, and cam selection.  We did our testing on a 396 running our PowerPort 175cc heads, and it did make more power and torque across the RPM range compared to our Track Heat single plane intake.  A more modern carb option on the TW might have produced even better results.

For anyone still interested, ports appear to be a conservative MR design. I'd guess it was designed to work with the ports in their heads (they'd be stupid not to make them that way), and it looks like they could work with just about any standard FE head with some port matching. Just a guess, but I'd think they would work very well with their heads, and are aimed more at the street/strip crowd or smaller CI engines.
Yep, it is a conservative mid-riser design.  We design all of our intakes to perform well right out of the box with our heads.  We also test fit with competitor’s heads to help ensure good compatibility across the market.  The intake runners are designed to taper slightly to allow for port matching.  We test manifolds un-port matched, and can often pick up anywhere from 5-15 hp just through port matching.

The TFS heads do have a turbulence in the intake port flow at ~.610" lift, but with a little work the flow jumps up and keeps flowing.  The TFS Track Head 4V intake manifold flows the best of any 4V intakes out of the box, and jumps up easily with just tweaks.  Better than the old HR 4V manifold.   Joe-JDC
Our testing (and other 3rd party testing) shows strong competition beating flow numbers up to .800” lift.  While we don’t doubt a skilled builder could rework them and achieve better flow numbers above .600” than out of the box, it’s worth noting that a majority of the flow is happening at lower lifts and the valve is only open all the way momentarily, so you need to look at the whole picture not just max lift flow.  Also, there can be significant changes in measured flow numbers depending on flow plate design (or clay) and bore size the heads were flowed with, especially with the shorter port of the FE head.

From what I see there they look pretty good is there anyway that you could pour the intake and see what the total volume is?

While it is tempting, and often common practice, to try to compare one head or manifold to another based on volume, there is much more to airflow than volume and volume is not really a relevant factor.  We are often able to achieve competitive flow numbers with smaller runner and port sizes, and this can often result in better real world performance due to improved velocity and efficient cylinder filling.

I appreciate the work that you all put into this head.  It's my go-to for most of my aftermarket head FE builds.   

The only issue I've had is valvetrain geometry.  A .050" longer valve than normal with a .300" raised rocker stand puts you in a +.250" net stand height.   I know you specify the Harland Sharp rocker set, but lots of guys use other rockers.  I've used everything from factory non-adjustables to T&D street rockers and 99% of the time, I'm having to mill the rocker stands down, anywhere from .080" to .200" depending on the rocker arm.   Precision Oil Pumps has even developed some shortened billet stands/end stands specifically for the TFS application.   

Otherwise, the heads are absolute peaches and I've had them on everything from 390's to 496's. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 07:31:49 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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My427stang

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2020, 06:23:08 PM »

From what I see there they look pretty good is there anyway that you could pour the intake and see what the total volume is?

While it is tempting, and often common practice, to try to compare one head or manifold to another based on volume, there is much more to airflow than volume and volume is not really a relevant factor.  We are often able to achieve competitive flow numbers with smaller runner and port sizes, and this can often result in better real world performance due to improved velocity and efficient cylinder filling.

That is my point exactly, given my experience with multiple sets of your heads, I am hoping you built the TW with more flow and less volume than the Dove, BBM, and lesser extent the Ford.  I can't imagine anyone would want MORE volume, the available alternatives are big boys

If you go peek in the dyno section, you'll see a few of us have been very happy with your heads

Second point, adjust that CnC program and send us a Track Heat head and give us an EFI version of your single 4 intake, my checkbook is in front of me...seriously!
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67xr7cat

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2021, 10:14:32 AM »
Saw a test of the TFS tunnel wedge on power nation. They put it on 445 from a prior episode. Strange part is it only made about 5 hp more peak than the TFS 4V intake. Have wonder if something was amiss with the efi?

Here is with the Tunnel wedge and efi.
https://youtu.be/rGQehVU55_g

Here is the original build and dyno test with 4V.
https://youtu.be/iLxMVfnvLvU

blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2021, 10:33:07 AM »
Saw a test of the TFS tunnel wedge on power nation. They put it on 445 from a prior episode. Strange part is it only made about 5 hp more peak than the TFS 4V intake. Have wonder if something was amiss with the efi?

Here is with the Tunnel wedge and efi.
https://youtu.be/rGQehVU55_g

Here is the original build and dyno test with 4V.
https://youtu.be/iLxMVfnvLvU

Their camshaft was way less than desirable for a hydraulic roller FE.  I think with the right cam, the TW would have pulled on up. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

Barry_R

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2021, 12:01:35 PM »
The self learning EFI would take a bunch of run time to generate a really good fuel curve.

hwoods

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2021, 12:04:45 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGQehVU55_g



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Previous FE Cars:   1965 Ford Galaxie 390/4spd then upgraded to 427 sideoiler
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67xr7cat

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2021, 10:11:55 PM »
Saw a test of the TFS tunnel wedge on power nation. They put it on 445 from a prior episode. Strange part is it only made about 5 hp more peak than the TFS 4V intake. Have wonder if something was amiss with the efi?

Here is with the Tunnel wedge and efi.
https://youtu.be/rGQehVU55_g

Here is the original build and dyno test with 4V.
https://youtu.be/iLxMVfnvLvU

Their camshaft was way less than desirable for a hydraulic roller FE.  I think with the right cam, the TW would have pulled on up.

The cam was a hydraulic roller 254 / 262 @.050" .670" lift, 110 LSA. Not big, but not small either. What would be the right cam?

So the 4V intake and carb hit peak around 5,850 and held it to about 6,100 rpm before dropping off and had an overall smoother curve. The TW peaked at about 5,800 rpm and started dropping off.  How can a TW with atleast double the cfm in throttle bodies peak earlier and drop off earlier than the single plane with a 4150 style carb? Not saying your wrong, just not seeing it as all cam and I'd think the TFS TW would be doing better than a 4V like that by 5,500 rpm? I attached the dyno graphs. This sure helps convince me to keep the 2x4 MR over the TFS TW, although the TW sure looks good on a FE! -Steve

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2021, 10:35:58 PM »
I think I'd like to try the TF t-Wedge but my 390 currently runs fairly well with mildly ported E-brocks and a stock BT MR 2x4 so curious if there was any gain to be had. Hardly worth the investment for a few HP although the -Wedge cool factor is worth something. Has anyone compared the BT vs TF as far as flow and performance ?   

winr1

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2021, 10:48:48 PM »
" my 390 currently runs fairly well " .....  pffttt ... heh  ;D



Ricky.


winr1

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2021, 11:00:12 PM »
Shady ......


No one has there panties in a wedge ... ya post was vile ....




Ricky.

cammerfe

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2021, 12:51:02 AM »
When I was in school, there were a few around who seemed to have it in for cats. I told them, "As long as you can run faster than 1200 feet per second, you'll be OK messing with my cat.

"My handloads of light bullets for my 1911 chronographed at about that speed, and you'd be out of range before I could get my '06, loaded with a saboted .22 copper slug, which will go at a bit over 4000." That seemed to stop the smart-ass. I like cats.

KS

Jb427

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2021, 04:07:06 AM »
More options the better i think USA people have it ezy lol. TFS need to make cammer heads and parts + tunnel wedge cammer intake. Any new fe part option is a good thing more people would buy and build them if it was not twice or even 4 X the price of most other engines.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 04:42:28 AM by Jb427 »