Author Topic: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake  (Read 13471 times)

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AlanCasida

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Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« on: October 21, 2020, 06:51:20 PM »
A guy I am "friends" with on facebook posted some pictures of the TFS tunnel wedge he just received so apparently they are available. Some of you may know him. His name is Charlie Hamilton.
 

Nightmist66

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2020, 08:27:06 PM »
No surprise after years of waiting, they're still NOT in stock!  >:(

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-56400114
Jared



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wowens

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2020, 04:53:10 AM »
I have emailed Trick Flow about every 3 months for 2 years. Only answer I ever got was "no promise date yet". They have not answered me emails lately. I think I will try again.
Woody

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2020, 07:41:52 AM »
No surprise after years of waiting, they're still NOT in stock!  >:(

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-56400114

They do have an estimated ship date though. Was that there before?
And I can't remember, what was the price on the BBM? Wasn't it around $1200?
Doug Smith


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Stangman

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2020, 08:55:55 AM »
From the limited side view from those pics the ports look smaller than the BBM which is more like the stock size. Probably better for a street deal than the big port BBM.

turbohunter

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2020, 10:26:42 AM »
From the limited side view from those pics the ports look smaller than the BBM which is more like the stock size. Probably better for a street deal than the big port BBM.
I was trying to find that info this morning. Didn’t find anything concrete.
Marc
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wowens

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #6 on: October 22, 2020, 04:41:32 PM »
Just got a reply from Trick Flow.
On backorder, 1st run sold out "very quick".
I was supposed to be on their order list.  WT#
Woody

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2020, 01:24:49 PM »
I guess your next. ;) :o 8)

427LX

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2020, 05:25:37 PM »
What is the power range of it on a 427 cube FE?   How does it compare to a medium riser below 6000 RPM?

cjshaker

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2020, 10:34:35 AM »
No surprise after years of waiting, they're still NOT in stock!  >:(

https://www.summitracing.com/parts/tfs-56400114

Just got a reply from Trick Flow.
On backorder, 1st run sold out "very quick".
I was supposed to be on their order list.  WT#

I placed an order for one on Oct. 23rd. At the time it was listed as "not in stock". A few days later I got an email saying it would be shipped out. I was billed for it on Saturday and it's currently in transit and scheduled to be delivered tomorrow, Nov 3rd. Apparently, TFS's "list" doesn't mean much. ??? :-X
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

cjshaker

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2020, 08:20:09 AM »
For anyone still interested, ports appear to be a conservative MR design. I'd guess it was designed to work with the ports in their heads (they'd be stupid not to make them that way), and it looks like they could work with just about any standard FE head with some port matching. Just a guess, but I'd think they would work very well with their heads, and are aimed more at the street/strip crowd or smaller CI engines.



Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

My427stang

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2020, 08:47:15 AM »
From what I see there they look pretty good is there anyway that you could pour the intake and see what the total volume is?
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blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2020, 08:51:35 AM »
For anyone still interested, ports appear to be a conservative MR design. I'd guess it was designed to work with the ports in their heads (they'd be stupid not to make them that way), and it looks like they could work with just about any standard FE head with some port matching. Just a guess, but I'd think they would work very well with their heads, and are aimed more at the street/strip crowd or smaller CI engines.





At least you have raised that cat well.  It seems interested in FE parts.  :)
Brent Lykins
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cjshaker

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2020, 10:59:26 AM »
At least you have raised that cat well.  It seems interested in FE parts.  :)

She's only 5 months old, but already used to loud cars and guns around my place. First time starting the Mach and the Harley's, they bolted (got 4 kittens). Now, if I just open the door to the Mach, or get on the Harley, they keep a safe distance and watch with fascination..lol She follows me everywhere.
Doug Smith


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'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

shady

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2020, 01:33:41 PM »
Somebody mention cats?
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
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cjshaker

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2020, 02:07:33 PM »
Deliberate cruelty to animals says a lot about someones character. Usually associated with serial killers, mass murderers and psychopaths.
Doug Smith


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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2020, 04:48:55 PM »
I have been working out a project I'd like to try the Tunnel Wedge on.

Speaking of cats, mine have a more detailed interest, they like screws & jets & springs and such, they wait till I am not looking, as can been seen, they like laying on the nice warm router, that I don't use any more since I upgraded, I just keep it plugged in for them now.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 06:37:36 PM by 1967 XR7 GT »
Richard

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2020, 05:32:12 PM »
I like cats because they don't suck up to you, unlike dogs. 

Regarding the TFS T-Wedge intake,  it looks like a home run to me.  Combine their heads with that intake and BAM!  It seems like Trickflow made very efficient ports on both their heads and intake manifolds, compared to the BBM's. 

If I were starting from "scratch", it seems like the TFS stuff would be the cat's meow. 

JMO,

pl
« Last Edit: November 04, 2020, 05:35:06 PM by plovett »

Katz427

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2020, 06:03:50 PM »
I loose bolts all the time. Usually in a couple days I'll look and one of the cats is playing with it.
 

Joe-JDC

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2020, 06:09:13 PM »
The TFS heads do have a turbulence in the intake port flow at ~.610" lift, but with a little work the flow jumps up and keeps flowing.  The TFS Track Head 4V intake manifold flows the best of any 4V intakes out of the box, and jumps up easily with just tweaks.  Better than the old HR 4V manifold.   Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

Nightmist66

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2020, 07:08:02 PM »
Glad to see you snagged one, Doug. Could you see what the approximate port size is, please? I would like to do a bundle buy between this and the TF single plane 4V when the funds come around. They both look like nice intakes. I see they finally addressed the oil return area. The intake at PRI had little to no room for the oil return. Looks like they milled that area out, now.
Jared



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Nightmist66

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2020, 07:12:01 PM »
Joe, how does the Trick Flow single plane compare in volume and cfm out of the box to a 4150 Victor?
Jared



66 Fairlane GT 390 - .035" Over 390, Wide Ratio Top Loader, 9" w/spool, 4.86

jayb

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2020, 09:17:13 PM »
Deliberate cruelty to animals says a lot about someones character. Usually associated with serial killers, mass murderers and psychopaths.

+1.  Bad joke, Shady  :(

Not to hijack, but here's another FE cat.  He prefers hanging out on the old Ford Racing jacket, sitting on the sideoiler...

Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

shady

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2020, 08:42:42 AM »
Well, I guess between the election and the CV, everybody has their panties in a wedge.

Note to self: no more PI and cat jokes.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
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cjshaker

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2020, 10:45:35 AM »
Jared, hopefully these pics will help. I wanted to post more last night but didn't have time.

Port dimensions:

I apologize for the first picture, where the ruler is covering most of the port and makes it difficult to see the measurement. The top of the ruler is level with the top of the port and the measurement comes in at just a hair under 2".





Space for raising the ports is limited due to this depression above them, much like the factory intake. Not really an issue because if someone wanted to raise and hog the ports out for a max effort build, the BBM would be the better choice.



And yes, it has been milled for better oil drainback. Details like this are kind of nice.





Here's a shot of the bottom plate and necessary hardware that come with it, including safety wire for the bolts. Another nice touch. I don't know if this stuff comes with the BBM. Anyone?



A couple more pics of the overall intake. Machining seems very nice, edges are broke and the overall casting seems pretty good. Much better than the factory pieces anyway. Earl seems to approve of it 8)



« Last Edit: November 05, 2020, 10:50:39 AM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Joe-JDC

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2020, 10:54:17 AM »
"Out of the box", a Victor has ports that are small and angled for the engine builder to port/gasket match to their particular cylinder head.  The Victor 427 flow is ~360 cfm "as cast".  The flow comes up rather quickly with port work.  The Trick Flow Track Heat FE manifold is considerably better "as cast", and the flow definitely comes up with a little work.  I have never poured either of them for volume.  I don't get too concerned about volume on the typical engines we build.  In all my years of working with Ford engines( first one 1962), I have had only one that was finicky with tunnel ram volume and rpm.  Most can be manipulated with spacers if you have the room and patience to find the best combination.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

Nightmist66

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2020, 06:51:07 PM »
Thank you for checking on that for me, Doug! I appreciate the pics also.


Joe, thank you for your response. I appreciate it!


Well, I have decided for sure, I NEED both of these intakes.  ;D
Jared



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Posi67

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #27 on: November 05, 2020, 11:28:18 PM »
Really like this intake as well as the Cats. Mine weren't much of car types but great company. As for the intake, I'm wondering and probably waiting to see if this has any improvement power wise over a stock BT 2x4 that is currently on my 390. Heads are Edelbrock with mild port work and a 1247 gasket match. Pretty sure my Dove T-wedge is too big and I have a BBM wedge for another deal that would certainly be too much.

Always wanted a T-wedge as a kid and was too dumb to know my Ford dealer could have ordered me one.

427John

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2020, 02:32:54 AM »
I always thought the Tunnel wedge and similar Tunnel port and Pontiac 421 SD bathtub intakes were some of the coolest factory intakes ever offered.

427John

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #29 on: November 06, 2020, 02:37:27 AM »
I think it is great that this intake and a modern version of the old PSE black widow are available again.

1967 XR7 GT

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #30 on: November 06, 2020, 05:28:38 AM »
Jared, hopefully these pics will help. I wanted to post more last night but didn't have time.


Space for raising the ports is limited due to this depression above them, much like the factory intake. Not really an issue because if someone wanted to raise and hog the ports out for a max effort build, the BBM would be the better choice.




I had thought the same thing, the dent in the casting right above the port would limit porting, so I had mine filled in. I figured if I was going to have it ported, might as well do it right. After porting, the ports flow averaged out to 388 cfm, where a stock "J" averaged port flow is 298 cfm.

Are there any flow numbers on the TFS T Wedge ?  Then, are there any numbers on one that's been ported ?



Richard

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WConley

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #31 on: November 06, 2020, 01:33:19 PM »

Not to hijack, but here's another FE cat.  He prefers hanging out on the old Ford Racing jacket, sitting on the sideoiler...





Blue Cat

Bad attitude - Check
Clipped ear - Check
Stumpy tail - Check
Beats up on the Orange Cat across the street - Check


Edit:  Not implying that Blue Cat would whoop Jay's FE Cat!  That's a farm cat.  They pack some nasty power adders.

Many have learned a hard lesson after staging against the orange Farm Truck:



« Last Edit: November 06, 2020, 02:24:56 PM by WConley »
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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #32 on: November 09, 2020, 05:21:54 PM »
Hi FE fans! 

Yes, our new FE Tunnel Wedge intake was released to market last month.  Good news and bad news, sales was higher than expected and we sold out of our first production run more quickly than we expected.  We’re working with our foundry to get more castings and get these back in stock as soon as possible.  The entire industry and supply chain is struggling to keep up with demand and our foundries (Cast and machined right here in Ohio!) are no exception, so it’s tough for us to give a more accurate estimate than “early next year” right now.

From the limited side view from those pics the ports look smaller than the BBM which is more like the stock size. Probably better for a street deal than the big port BBM.
We are aware of at least 2 different versions of the BBM manifold.  We’ve not done a direct comparison, but we understand their early version had larger ports than their later version.  Our design was based off of the OE manifold to get carb locations and overall style, but ports were designed from scratch to optimize flow with our heads.

What is the power range of it on a 427 cube FE?   How does it compare to a medium riser below 6000 RPM?

There are too many variables for anyone to give you a solid answer on this, including heads, compression ratio, cam specs, etc.  But, our Tunnel Wedge intake was designed to be usable for 390-428 CI FE’s in the 500-700hp range, and will deliver peak TQ/power between 3750 - 7500rpm (7500 rpm for those of you that like to gamble!).  Actual HP/TQ peaks will depend heavily on your displacement, heads, and cam selection.  We did our testing on a 396 running our PowerPort 175cc heads, and it did make more power and torque across the RPM range compared to our Track Heat single plane intake.  A more modern carb option on the TW might have produced even better results.

For anyone still interested, ports appear to be a conservative MR design. I'd guess it was designed to work with the ports in their heads (they'd be stupid not to make them that way), and it looks like they could work with just about any standard FE head with some port matching. Just a guess, but I'd think they would work very well with their heads, and are aimed more at the street/strip crowd or smaller CI engines.
Yep, it is a conservative mid-riser design.  We design all of our intakes to perform well right out of the box with our heads.  We also test fit with competitor’s heads to help ensure good compatibility across the market.  The intake runners are designed to taper slightly to allow for port matching.  We test manifolds un-port matched, and can often pick up anywhere from 5-15 hp just through port matching.

The TFS heads do have a turbulence in the intake port flow at ~.610" lift, but with a little work the flow jumps up and keeps flowing.  The TFS Track Head 4V intake manifold flows the best of any 4V intakes out of the box, and jumps up easily with just tweaks.  Better than the old HR 4V manifold.   Joe-JDC
Our testing (and other 3rd party testing) shows strong competition beating flow numbers up to .800” lift.  While we don’t doubt a skilled builder could rework them and achieve better flow numbers above .600” than out of the box, it’s worth noting that a majority of the flow is happening at lower lifts and the valve is only open all the way momentarily, so you need to look at the whole picture not just max lift flow.  Also, there can be significant changes in measured flow numbers depending on flow plate design (or clay) and bore size the heads were flowed with, especially with the shorter port of the FE head.

From what I see there they look pretty good is there anyway that you could pour the intake and see what the total volume is?

While it is tempting, and often common practice, to try to compare one head or manifold to another based on volume, there is much more to airflow than volume and volume is not really a relevant factor.  We are often able to achieve competitive flow numbers with smaller runner and port sizes, and this can often result in better real world performance due to improved velocity and efficient cylinder filling.
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blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #33 on: November 09, 2020, 06:17:16 PM »
Hi FE fans! 

Yes, our new FE Tunnel Wedge intake was released to market last month.  Good news and bad news, sales was higher than expected and we sold out of our first production run more quickly than we expected.  We’re working with our foundry to get more castings and get these back in stock as soon as possible.  The entire industry and supply chain is struggling to keep up with demand and our foundries (Cast and machined right here in Ohio!) are no exception, so it’s tough for us to give a more accurate estimate than “early next year” right now.

From the limited side view from those pics the ports look smaller than the BBM which is more like the stock size. Probably better for a street deal than the big port BBM.
We are aware of at least 2 different versions of the BBM manifold.  We’ve not done a direct comparison, but we understand their early version had larger ports than their later version.  Our design was based off of the OE manifold to get carb locations and overall style, but ports were designed from scratch to optimize flow with our heads.

What is the power range of it on a 427 cube FE?   How does it compare to a medium riser below 6000 RPM?

There are too many variables for anyone to give you a solid answer on this, including heads, compression ratio, cam specs, etc.  But, our Tunnel Wedge intake was designed to be usable for 390-428 CI FE’s in the 500-700hp range, and will deliver peak TQ/power between 3750 - 7500rpm (7500 rpm for those of you that like to gamble!).  Actual HP/TQ peaks will depend heavily on your displacement, heads, and cam selection.  We did our testing on a 396 running our PowerPort 175cc heads, and it did make more power and torque across the RPM range compared to our Track Heat single plane intake.  A more modern carb option on the TW might have produced even better results.

For anyone still interested, ports appear to be a conservative MR design. I'd guess it was designed to work with the ports in their heads (they'd be stupid not to make them that way), and it looks like they could work with just about any standard FE head with some port matching. Just a guess, but I'd think they would work very well with their heads, and are aimed more at the street/strip crowd or smaller CI engines.
Yep, it is a conservative mid-riser design.  We design all of our intakes to perform well right out of the box with our heads.  We also test fit with competitor’s heads to help ensure good compatibility across the market.  The intake runners are designed to taper slightly to allow for port matching.  We test manifolds un-port matched, and can often pick up anywhere from 5-15 hp just through port matching.

The TFS heads do have a turbulence in the intake port flow at ~.610" lift, but with a little work the flow jumps up and keeps flowing.  The TFS Track Head 4V intake manifold flows the best of any 4V intakes out of the box, and jumps up easily with just tweaks.  Better than the old HR 4V manifold.   Joe-JDC
Our testing (and other 3rd party testing) shows strong competition beating flow numbers up to .800” lift.  While we don’t doubt a skilled builder could rework them and achieve better flow numbers above .600” than out of the box, it’s worth noting that a majority of the flow is happening at lower lifts and the valve is only open all the way momentarily, so you need to look at the whole picture not just max lift flow.  Also, there can be significant changes in measured flow numbers depending on flow plate design (or clay) and bore size the heads were flowed with, especially with the shorter port of the FE head.

From what I see there they look pretty good is there anyway that you could pour the intake and see what the total volume is?

While it is tempting, and often common practice, to try to compare one head or manifold to another based on volume, there is much more to airflow than volume and volume is not really a relevant factor.  We are often able to achieve competitive flow numbers with smaller runner and port sizes, and this can often result in better real world performance due to improved velocity and efficient cylinder filling.

I appreciate the work that you all put into this head.  It's my go-to for most of my aftermarket head FE builds.   

The only issue I've had is valvetrain geometry.  A .050" longer valve than normal with a .300" raised rocker stand puts you in a +.250" net stand height.   I know you specify the Harland Sharp rocker set, but lots of guys use other rockers.  I've used everything from factory non-adjustables to T&D street rockers and 99% of the time, I'm having to mill the rocker stands down, anywhere from .080" to .200" depending on the rocker arm.   Precision Oil Pumps has even developed some shortened billet stands/end stands specifically for the TFS application.   

Otherwise, the heads are absolute peaches and I've had them on everything from 390's to 496's. 
« Last Edit: November 09, 2020, 07:31:49 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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My427stang

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #34 on: November 09, 2020, 06:23:08 PM »

From what I see there they look pretty good is there anyway that you could pour the intake and see what the total volume is?

While it is tempting, and often common practice, to try to compare one head or manifold to another based on volume, there is much more to airflow than volume and volume is not really a relevant factor.  We are often able to achieve competitive flow numbers with smaller runner and port sizes, and this can often result in better real world performance due to improved velocity and efficient cylinder filling.

That is my point exactly, given my experience with multiple sets of your heads, I am hoping you built the TW with more flow and less volume than the Dove, BBM, and lesser extent the Ford.  I can't imagine anyone would want MORE volume, the available alternatives are big boys

If you go peek in the dyno section, you'll see a few of us have been very happy with your heads

Second point, adjust that CnC program and send us a Track Heat head and give us an EFI version of your single 4 intake, my checkbook is in front of me...seriously!
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
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67xr7cat

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2021, 10:14:32 AM »
Saw a test of the TFS tunnel wedge on power nation. They put it on 445 from a prior episode. Strange part is it only made about 5 hp more peak than the TFS 4V intake. Have wonder if something was amiss with the efi?

Here is with the Tunnel wedge and efi.
https://youtu.be/rGQehVU55_g

Here is the original build and dyno test with 4V.
https://youtu.be/iLxMVfnvLvU

blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2021, 10:33:07 AM »
Saw a test of the TFS tunnel wedge on power nation. They put it on 445 from a prior episode. Strange part is it only made about 5 hp more peak than the TFS 4V intake. Have wonder if something was amiss with the efi?

Here is with the Tunnel wedge and efi.
https://youtu.be/rGQehVU55_g

Here is the original build and dyno test with 4V.
https://youtu.be/iLxMVfnvLvU

Their camshaft was way less than desirable for a hydraulic roller FE.  I think with the right cam, the TW would have pulled on up. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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Barry_R

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2021, 12:01:35 PM »
The self learning EFI would take a bunch of run time to generate a really good fuel curve.

hwoods

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2021, 12:04:45 PM »
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGQehVU55_g



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67xr7cat

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #39 on: February 14, 2021, 10:11:55 PM »
Saw a test of the TFS tunnel wedge on power nation. They put it on 445 from a prior episode. Strange part is it only made about 5 hp more peak than the TFS 4V intake. Have wonder if something was amiss with the efi?

Here is with the Tunnel wedge and efi.
https://youtu.be/rGQehVU55_g

Here is the original build and dyno test with 4V.
https://youtu.be/iLxMVfnvLvU

Their camshaft was way less than desirable for a hydraulic roller FE.  I think with the right cam, the TW would have pulled on up.

The cam was a hydraulic roller 254 / 262 @.050" .670" lift, 110 LSA. Not big, but not small either. What would be the right cam?

So the 4V intake and carb hit peak around 5,850 and held it to about 6,100 rpm before dropping off and had an overall smoother curve. The TW peaked at about 5,800 rpm and started dropping off.  How can a TW with atleast double the cfm in throttle bodies peak earlier and drop off earlier than the single plane with a 4150 style carb? Not saying your wrong, just not seeing it as all cam and I'd think the TFS TW would be doing better than a 4V like that by 5,500 rpm? I attached the dyno graphs. This sure helps convince me to keep the 2x4 MR over the TFS TW, although the TW sure looks good on a FE! -Steve

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #40 on: February 14, 2021, 10:35:58 PM »
I think I'd like to try the TF t-Wedge but my 390 currently runs fairly well with mildly ported E-brocks and a stock BT MR 2x4 so curious if there was any gain to be had. Hardly worth the investment for a few HP although the -Wedge cool factor is worth something. Has anyone compared the BT vs TF as far as flow and performance ?   

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #41 on: February 14, 2021, 10:48:48 PM »
" my 390 currently runs fairly well " .....  pffttt ... heh  ;D



Ricky.


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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #42 on: February 14, 2021, 11:00:12 PM »
Shady ......


No one has there panties in a wedge ... ya post was vile ....




Ricky.

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #43 on: February 15, 2021, 12:51:02 AM »
When I was in school, there were a few around who seemed to have it in for cats. I told them, "As long as you can run faster than 1200 feet per second, you'll be OK messing with my cat.

"My handloads of light bullets for my 1911 chronographed at about that speed, and you'd be out of range before I could get my '06, loaded with a saboted .22 copper slug, which will go at a bit over 4000." That seemed to stop the smart-ass. I like cats.

KS

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #44 on: February 15, 2021, 04:07:06 AM »
More options the better i think USA people have it ezy lol. TFS need to make cammer heads and parts + tunnel wedge cammer intake. Any new fe part option is a good thing more people would buy and build them if it was not twice or even 4 X the price of most other engines.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 04:42:28 AM by Jb427 »

blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2021, 06:27:41 AM »
Saw a test of the TFS tunnel wedge on power nation. They put it on 445 from a prior episode. Strange part is it only made about 5 hp more peak than the TFS 4V intake. Have wonder if something was amiss with the efi?

Here is with the Tunnel wedge and efi.
https://youtu.be/rGQehVU55_g

Here is the original build and dyno test with 4V.
https://youtu.be/iLxMVfnvLvU

Their camshaft was way less than desirable for a hydraulic roller FE.  I think with the right cam, the TW would have pulled on up.

The cam was a hydraulic roller 254 / 262 @.050" .670" lift, 110 LSA. Not big, but not small either. What would be the right cam?

So the 4V intake and carb hit peak around 5,850 and held it to about 6,100 rpm before dropping off and had an overall smoother curve. The TW peaked at about 5,800 rpm and started dropping off.  How can a TW with atleast double the cfm in throttle bodies peak earlier and drop off earlier than the single plane with a 4150 style carb? Not saying your wrong, just not seeing it as all cam and I'd think the TFS TW would be doing better than a 4V like that by 5,500 rpm? I attached the dyno graphs. This sure helps convince me to keep the 2x4 MR over the TFS TW, although the TW sure looks good on a FE! -Steve

A 254° duration hydraulic roller is large for a 445.   When you get into large duration hydraulic rollers, the advertised durations are large as well, which means lots of overlap.   I've been trying to get into guys' heads that bigger cams don't always mean bigger horsepower or higher peaks.   I think this engine wasn't efficient enough for that large of a camshaft.   FWIW, my 445's with about 23° less duration will pull to 5700 and make 550 hp with a Performer RPM.   The single plane intake would be worth some peak horsepower, but the camshaft on that engine is not correct.   
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
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67xr7cat

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2021, 07:40:44 AM »
I think they picked that cam looking for a big HP number which they did get 583hp.  So your saying kinda like that cam in Jay's engine that was recently shown to be bigger than what the engine needed or could use. So if you wanted this engine to pull and make power to 7k what cam would you run?

I'd love to use the TFS TW as cannot beat the looks. Was hoping they made it more street friendly, but have yet to see anything as to how it performs. To date all the TW intakes need a big engine to make sense for a street bound engine.  Seems is hard to bet the 2x4 MR on the street.

blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2021, 07:54:25 AM »
I think they picked that cam looking for a big HP number which they did get 583hp.  So your saying kinda like that cam in Jay's engine that was recently shown to be bigger than what the engine needed or could use. So if you wanted this engine to pull and make power to 7k what cam would you run?

I'd love to use the TFS TW as cannot beat the looks. Was hoping they made it more street friendly, but have yet to see anything as to how it performs. To date all the TW intakes need a big engine to make sense for a street bound engine.  Seems is hard to bet the 2x4 MR on the street.

I was talking to Pat Topolinski and he said he picked that cam because he wanted to make sure that if someone got that engine that they wouldn’t have any issue with it on pump gas. 

You are very correct on the 2x4 MR.

« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 08:23:03 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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410bruce

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #48 on: February 15, 2021, 09:10:07 AM »
Nothing really to add other than this intake is pretty "trick." Pun intended. Any of you guys remember that term to describe something nice or unique back 30 or 40 years ago?  :D

And I love cats! Seems FE guys have propensity to liking cats. Very cool.  8)

Joe-JDC

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #49 on: February 15, 2021, 10:27:09 AM »
As I read through all this and listen to the questions, it really enforces my point that I have tried to make several times in the past about the head flow and intake manifold flow percentages.  If a TFS head flows 330 cfm, then for maximum performance, the intake needs ~120% more flow, or 396cfm.  I am going out of my comfort zone here, and tell you that the TFS 4V flows 405 cfm as cast, and with a good cartridge roll to the MR port size, it flows 455cfm.  The  Ford TW flows ~390cfm as cast, with a cartridge roll goes up depending on gasket size to near 500 cfm.  The BBM as cast flows ~415cfm as cast, and will go over 500 cfm with port work.  I am of the opinion that the TFS TW is very similar in flow to the 4V, at the 405-410 cfm as cast.  If true, then there would not be a great difference in power produced with either the 4V or TFS TW because they flow the same and the heads are the same.  You reach a point where the head flow and camshaft average lift/flow numbers do not change regardless of the manifold added to the top of the engine.  It simply will not flow more air unless you change the average flow numbers to a higher number, change the compression ratio, or reduce exhaust pressures.  Every engine reaches a point where nothing will add power unless you change a major component to increase airflow into the combustion chamber.  JMO, experience from years of engine building, drag racing, porting, dyno testing.  Joe-JDC
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blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #50 on: February 15, 2021, 10:46:21 AM »
As I read through all this and listen to the questions, it really enforces my point that I have tried to make several times in the past about the head flow and intake manifold flow percentages.  If a TFS head flows 330 cfm, then for maximum performance, the intake needs ~120% more flow, or 396cfm.  I am going out of my comfort zone here, and tell you that the TFS 4V flows 405 cfm as cast, and with a good cartridge roll to the MR port size, it flows 455cfm.  The  Ford TW flows ~390cfm as cast, with a cartridge roll goes up depending on gasket size to near 500 cfm.  The BBM as cast flows ~415cfm as cast, and will go over 500 cfm with port work.  I am of the opinion that the TFS TW is very similar in flow to the 4V, at the 405-410 cfm as cast.  If true, then there would not be a great difference in power produced with either the 4V or TFS TW because they flow the same and the heads are the same.  You reach a point where the head flow and camshaft average lift/flow numbers do not change regardless of the manifold added to the top of the engine.  It simply will not flow more air unless you change the average flow numbers to a higher number, change the compression ratio, or reduce exhaust pressures.  Every engine reaches a point where nothing will add power unless you change a major component to increase airflow into the combustion chamber.  JMO, experience from years of engine building, drag racing, porting, dyno testing.  Joe-JDC

I agree completely and your testimony goes hand in hand with the camshaft dialogue.  You can keep adding camshaft for a given combination, but there's a point where you can keep adding and you don't gain, or go backwards. 

A 254° @ .050" camshaft is a whole lot of cam just to get to a 5800 rpm hp peak.   Should have been an eyebrow raised there when similar peaks are had with 20° smaller cams.   

When the numbers that you get are not what you expected, then you back the cam down, see where the choke point is, or both.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2021, 10:48:10 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
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fryedaddy

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #51 on: February 15, 2021, 02:09:07 PM »
Deliberate cruelty to animals says a lot about someones character. Usually associated with serial killers, mass murderers and psychopaths.

+1.  Bad joke, Shady  :(

Not to hijack, but here's another FE cat.  He prefers hanging out on the old Ford Racing jacket, sitting on the sideoiler...


me and my wife love orange cats,we've had 3 over the last32 years.all three orange,all three we named Oscar.
1966 comet caliente 428 4 speed owned since 1983                                                 1973 f250 ranger xlt 360 4 speed papaw bought new

shady

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #52 on: February 15, 2021, 03:01:16 PM »
Well, I like orange popsicles. However I digress, I had a Siamese cat (Simon) that was just a nasty ass. He hated everybody except the wiener dog and me. Almost made it to 21yo. Replaced the wiener twice, but never the cat. Figured I'd never find another as cool as he was. Maybe some day.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
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67xr7cat

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #53 on: February 15, 2021, 04:13:36 PM »
Thanks Brent and Joe. The intake flow rates make sense. Not right cam makes sense why it did not peak higher given the duration. Guess it will for sure run on pump gas with that cam.

blykins

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #54 on: February 15, 2021, 05:25:56 PM »
Thanks Brent and Joe. The intake flow rates make sense. Not right cam makes sense why it did not peak higher given the duration. Guess it will for sure run on pump gas with that cam.

You have to *really* be careful with hydraulic rollers when you start getting into higher durations.  It's not uncommon for me to run 115-116 LSA on larger hydraulic rollers.   When you get too lazy of a lobe, you can also compound things.  I've volunteered to send Powernation some cams and some parts, but their big advertising guys are Summit, Comp, etc.  I'm sure Comp Cams has almost zero Ford FE dyno testing. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
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BigBlueIron

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #55 on: February 16, 2021, 11:13:05 AM »
Hi FE fans! 

Yes, our new FE Tunnel Wedge intake was released to market last month.  Good news and bad news, sales was higher than expected and we sold out of our first production run more quickly than we expected.  We’re working with our foundry to get more castings and get these back in stock as soon as possible.  The entire industry and supply chain is struggling to keep up with demand and our foundries (Cast and machined right here in Ohio!) are no exception, so it’s tough for us to give a more accurate estimate than “early next year” right now.

From the limited side view from those pics the ports look smaller than the BBM which is more like the stock size. Probably better for a street deal than the big port BBM.
We are aware of at least 2 different versions of the BBM manifold.  We’ve not done a direct comparison, but we understand their early version had larger ports than their later version.  Our design was based off of the OE manifold to get carb locations and overall style, but ports were designed from scratch to optimize flow with our heads.

What is the power range of it on a 427 cube FE?   How does it compare to a medium riser below 6000 RPM?

There are too many variables for anyone to give you a solid answer on this, including heads, compression ratio, cam specs, etc.  But, our Tunnel Wedge intake was designed to be usable for 390-428 CI FE’s in the 500-700hp range, and will deliver peak TQ/power between 3750 - 7500rpm (7500 rpm for those of you that like to gamble!).  Actual HP/TQ peaks will depend heavily on your displacement, heads, and cam selection.  We did our testing on a 396 running our PowerPort 175cc heads, and it did make more power and torque across the RPM range compared to our Track Heat single plane intake.  A more modern carb option on the TW might have produced even better results.

For anyone still interested, ports appear to be a conservative MR design. I'd guess it was designed to work with the ports in their heads (they'd be stupid not to make them that way), and it looks like they could work with just about any standard FE head with some port matching. Just a guess, but I'd think they would work very well with their heads, and are aimed more at the street/strip crowd or smaller CI engines.
Yep, it is a conservative mid-riser design.  We design all of our intakes to perform well right out of the box with our heads.  We also test fit with competitor’s heads to help ensure good compatibility across the market.  The intake runners are designed to taper slightly to allow for port matching.  We test manifolds un-port matched, and can often pick up anywhere from 5-15 hp just through port matching.

The TFS heads do have a turbulence in the intake port flow at ~.610" lift, but with a little work the flow jumps up and keeps flowing.  The TFS Track Head 4V intake manifold flows the best of any 4V intakes out of the box, and jumps up easily with just tweaks.  Better than the old HR 4V manifold.   Joe-JDC
Our testing (and other 3rd party testing) shows strong competition beating flow numbers up to .800” lift.  While we don’t doubt a skilled builder could rework them and achieve better flow numbers above .600” than out of the box, it’s worth noting that a majority of the flow is happening at lower lifts and the valve is only open all the way momentarily, so you need to look at the whole picture not just max lift flow.  Also, there can be significant changes in measured flow numbers depending on flow plate design (or clay) and bore size the heads were flowed with, especially with the shorter port of the FE head.

From what I see there they look pretty good is there anyway that you could pour the intake and see what the total volume is?

While it is tempting, and often common practice, to try to compare one head or manifold to another based on volume, there is much more to airflow than volume and volume is not really a relevant factor.  We are often able to achieve competitive flow numbers with smaller runner and port sizes, and this can often result in better real world performance due to improved velocity and efficient cylinder filling.

One point that hasn't been brought up that I think everyone here will agree on is the need for another water port! On all manifolds made for the FE.  And since Trickflow has brought themselves into this thread now is the perfect time to mention it.  What say the rest of you.

My427stang

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Re: Trickflow Tunnel wedge intake
« Reply #56 on: February 16, 2021, 09:44:02 PM »
I am with you! Amen!
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch