428 Build--Stroker Kit, Heads, or Run With What I Have?

[410bruce]

Because I can't afford both. 
As it stands, I have a standard bore service replacement 428 block to work with. Have already purchased a set of Eagle "ESP" H-beam rods, main and rod bearings, and have a 1U crank done up and ready for use. Have not purchased pistons as of yet. Have a nice set of C6AE-Rs with dual springs and CJ valves purchased from a forum member who told me his 428 made 500 horsepower with these heads and a custom hydraulic flat tappet cam in the 230ish at .050 intake duration range. Probably only 500 miles on them.
I would like 500 horsepower. More would be cool if feasible but not at the expense of reliability.
If you guys think my goal would be attainable with what I already have, that would be awesome.
If not, would the TFS heads make that and then some on the 428" engine? Or, would a stroker kit get me there with the C6AE-Rs?
This engine will be going in a '67 Cougar, 4-speed Toploader, no power brakes or steering. Must run comfortably on 91 California pump gas.
Would like to keep the RPM to probably around 5500 for longevity sake.

Thanks for any input, guys, Hugely appreciated.

[Tommy-T]

You have some good parts already so I'd run them. Plus, I'm cheap.

I'd buy a set of Speed Pro L2303 pistons and run it.

No p/s or p/b then I'd run a little "spunkier" cam than 230@.050. Maybe 240@.050. I'd run a solid flat tappet but "squishy" lifters should take you to 5500rpm.

This combination will most likely not make 500 horsepower. But it will leave you with enough money to buy some 9" slicks and a Cal Tracks set up which you will desperately need. I'm thinking with a really sharp tune you could get this combo into the 11 second zone.

[blykins]

I don't like big cubes with stock heads.  I also don't think you'll make 500 hp with what you have.   Would a 428 make 500 hp with TFS heads?  Yep.  And then some. 

[WerbyFord]

What exhaust will you run? Headers or iron? Pipe size / mufflers?
That 500hp has to get out somehow...

With no PSPB (yay) shy not a solid cam? Smoother idle for same power. Easy to set the valves, not needed that often anyway.
500hp will be tough on CA pump gas/water, but, why 500hp?
Is your goal an ET or MPH in the 1/4 mile, if so, what?
How much gear are you willing to live with?

I'd have said "stroker kit 1st, can add heads later", but I also like Free Stuff, and since you already have most of the parts, I'd try to use what you have. If it doesn't meet the goals, you could upgrade the heads. Did I miss what intake/carb you will run?

[410bruce]

What exhaust will you run? Headers or iron? Pipe size / mufflers?
That 500hp has to get out somehow...

With no PSPB (yay) shy not a solid cam? Smoother idle for same power. Easy to set the valves, not needed that often anyway.
500hp will be tough on CA pump gas/water, but, why 500hp?
Is your goal an ET or MPH in the 1/4 mile, if so, what?
How much gear are you willing to live with?

I'd have said "stroker kit 1st, can add heads later", but I also like Free Stuff, and since you already have most of the parts, I'd try to use what you have. If it doesn't meet the goals, you could upgrade the heads. Did I miss what intake/carb you will run?

Headers with whatever pipe size is needed for the goal.
Solid flat tappet would be fine. Rowdy idle would be fine--whatever it takes to meet the goal.
Why 500hp? No good reason, really. According to the Gonk you did for me earlier, my old 428 made nearly that number (I think around 460-470hp if I remember correctly). Would just like to make that 500 number. Won't be a drag car, just a fun, obnoxious street car. However, I may run it in the quarter just to see what it could do.
Gear will be whatever it needs to run well.   Probably won't be taking this car on long trips, so freeway flyer gears shouldn't be needed.
Have a new Performer RPM purchased from Brent. Carburetor will be whatever is needed for the goal.

[My427stang]

Any more info on the heads?  I am a Trick Flow lover, but given your RPM range, tend to lean toward the cubes.. 

525 HP from a 462 is 1.14 HP per cid, and the same from a 433 (assuming an overbore)  is 1.21/inch.  Either is pretty easy to do IMHO with the two combos.  The 428 with the C6 heads, a little tougher, but doable too, just won't have the 5500 RPM peak, I think you'd have to be looking at a 6400 RPM shift point or so

If I did go iron stroker, and you think there may be options in the future, I would give up some compression and buy pistons and cam for Trick Flow heads, it may not be your perfect engine, but if you did decide to go with better heads, it would be an easier swap and blow your goals away

[410bruce]

Man, you guys aren't making a definitive decision easy. lol.

Let me throw something else out there. How about porting the C6s? They shouldn't need any other work besides the port work and a finish valve and seat touch-up. They do have hardened seats installed.

[My427stang]

Man, you guys aren't making a definitive decision easy. lol.

Let me throw something else out there. How about porting the C6s? They shouldn't need any other work besides the port work and a finish valve and seat touch-up. They do have had hardened seats installed.

Porting the C6s can get you 280 cfm pretty easily, might get you into the 500s with what you have if parts picked well, but it isn't cheap to port iron heads. If you have a grand into them, and add another grand, you are at the Trick Flow cost, and the TF becomes cheaper if you sell yours.

That being said, it's like the old stone soup story, add a little here and there it gets better.  As a guy who really tries to respect other's budgets (as all the builders on here do), part of me wants to tell you to buy pistons and cam with your 428 parts, that match the Trick Flow heads, then bolt on your C6s as is.  Ignore the numbers, if strong enough for you, leave it.  If not, swap heads later and you'll have your number and then some

[frnkeore]

If I might suggest, since you don't have a dyno available, your not really going to know what your actual HP output will be so, when you get the flow numbers for your heads, let Werby, Gonk it, for 500 HP and build to that spec. That way, you'll have something in the ball part and can say, it's a 500 HP engine, with some backing.

If you're willing to travel 300 miles, there is a SF901, in Medford to hook it up to. I don't know if Redding is closer but, there might be one there, too.

[410bruce]

If I might suggest, since you don't have a dyno available, your not really going to know what your actual HP output will be so, when you get the flow numbers for your heads, let Werby, Gonk it, for 500 HP and build to that spec. That way, you'll have something in the ball part and can say, it's a 500 HP engine, with some backing.

If you're willing to travel 300 miles, there is a SF901, in Medford to hook it up to. I don't know if Redding is closer but, there might be one there, too.

I actually do have access to a dyno. It's a mobile chassis dyno. It's about a 10 second walk from my work. 
I'd like Werby to gonk it as well, if he feels like doing it.

[plovett]

I think the question is a 428 with TFS heads vs. a 462 with C6 heads?

Easy.  Get the heads, even for a mild engine.   About 29 cubic inches of difference is not very significant compared to the gains in the heads.  And since you said you don't need freeway flyer gears, it is an even easier decision to go with the "small' combo.   

JMO,

pl

[410bruce]

I think the question is a 428 with TFS heads vs. a 462 with C6 heads?

Easy.  Get the heads, even for a mild engine.   About 29 cubic inches of difference is not very significant compared to the gains in the heads.  And since you said you don't need freeway flyer gears, it is an even easier decision to go with the "small' combo.   

JMO,

pl

I'm really leaning that way, at this point. Plus, being aluminum, will take weight off the front end which is important with a '67 Cougar. Also, with the updated combustion chamber, will help aid in running the 91 octane Commiefornia pump gas I'm relegated to run.

[thatdarncat]

Lance Smith at Craft Performance Engines in Arkadelphia AR. has a CNC program to port the common cast iron FE heads. He started with the C8AE-H heads, but I believe he has expanded to most of the common FE cast iron heads now, so he should have the C6AE-R’s covered. Last I saw him post it was $400 pair plus shipping to CNC port the iron heads, so it’s pretty cost friendly. He’s posted the flow figures & dyno numbers on Facebook in the past. I think Tom Lucas at FE Specialties in Auburn California also has a CNC program to port the common cast iron FE heads too, but I’m not as sure of the details, so you’d need to check with him for cost and if he can cover the C6AE-R’s. Just some more to consider lol.

https://www.craftperformanceengines.com/

https://fespecialties.com/

[410bruce]

Thanks Kevin.   

[Barry_R]

I vote stroker.  The extra cubes will directly impact torque per cubic inch - more power everywhere in the curve.  Reason for my choice is that you can always add a set of better heads over a weekend with the engine installed in the vehicle if/when you decide you need "more".  Cant add cubes as easily once the engine is running.