Author Topic: C8AX-6250D Cam  (Read 14662 times)

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66FAIRLANE

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #30 on: March 17, 2020, 09:00:21 PM »
Its really good that this discussion has remained quite civil as it is very interesting. Especially for us guys that weren't around 'in the day', don't build engines everyday or in countries where the FE was not produced.

What I will say is, if I remember correctly, in the OP's original post he said something about showing some chevy guys what an FE can do. It would be a shame to tip a heap of money & effort in and get mauled by a modern built 350. My advice is heed what these guys are saying. Any cam suggested to make your combo run great is still going to sound pretty good through the right exhaust.

As an example my 390 used to use the attached cam. Edelbrock heads (out of box), various largeish carbs & tri-y headers. It made 7" of vacuum, didn't come alive until 4000rpm (converter was 3500) and I used to regularly spin it to 6500 & occasionally greater. It sounded plenty nasty, turned heads & won its fair share of street action when it should have.

Currently rebuilding & putting a smaller cam in :)

« Last Edit: March 17, 2020, 09:02:12 PM by 66FAIRLANE »

gt350hr

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #31 on: March 18, 2020, 10:33:19 AM »
   Let's look at reality . The C8AX-D cam lobe was "created" by Eonic ( for Ford)in 1967! In it's day it was BIG but there were aftermarket grinders making bigger cams. The "lobe" was used for the Boss 302 (DOZX-A) Boss 351 ( D1ZX-CA) and Boss 429 (D1ZX-??) as it was the biggest Ford had. Camshaft design has advanced "a bit" to say the least since then. Is it "the ultimate"? Maybe not but a "proper" reproduction allows nostalgic builders the opportunity to use one with confidence versus a used one. Nice to see someone took the initiative to have them remade though Holman Moody has always offered them.

frnkeore

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #32 on: March 18, 2020, 01:18:55 PM »
In my reply, regarding duration, I did mead MORE, standard flat tappet duration. 6200 rpm isn't where that TP needs to be, the only way to increase the rpm, is with duration on the early cam lobes. The high flowing TP ports, weren't created for a low rpm engine and streetability was not their purpose, at all! They were a race head and that's how they need to be used. With a cam that peaks at 7000. I always wanted a set of SB TP's but, never found a set for sale.

Barry, was the cam checked for wear and timing? Also, in a car, the temp would be much higher and was the RT side A/F sensors disconnected and all the left side sensors hooked up?

Everyone keeps saying that "sound" is the reason people want that cam. You don't need a cam for sound, just pull the choke out and you've got that. For me, it's history, nothing else.

Here's a idea, why not hold a competition, using the "D" as the base line rule? That's kinda what the EMC is about. Are people interested in the FE because they are "modern" or because they are one of the best "old" engine. The FE is about history. You can add modern components to it but, basically it is a high end, historical engine, one of the best Ford ever produced!
Frank

blykins

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #33 on: March 18, 2020, 01:34:45 PM »
In my reply, regarding duration, I did mead MORE, standard flat tappet duration. 6200 rpm isn't where that TP needs to be, the only way to increase the rpm, is with duration on the early cam lobes. The high flowing TP ports, weren't created for a low rpm engine and streetability was not their purpose, at all! They were a race head and that's how they need to be used. With a cam that peaks at 7000. I always wanted a set of SB TP's but, never found a set for sale.

Barry, was the cam checked for wear and timing? Also, in a car, the temp would be much higher and was the RT side A/F sensors disconnected and all the left side sensors hooked up?

Everyone keeps saying that "sound" is the reason people want that cam. You don't need a cam for sound, just pull the choke out and you've got that. For me, it's history, nothing else.

Here's a idea, why not hold a competition, using the "D" as the base line rule? That's kinda what the EMC is about. Are people interested in the FE because they are "modern" or because they are one of the best "old" engine. The FE is about history. You can add modern components to it but, basically it is a high end, historical engine, one of the best Ford ever produced!

Higher flowing/better performing/however you want to put it, heads, absolutely DO NOT need more duration.  That is basically a camshaft design law.   I've got 3-4 Tunnel Port head builds in the dyno results section of this forum and I can peak every single one of them at 7000 or higher with a smaller camshaft than that C8AX cam.  It's that big of a turd.  One of them was a 511 cubic inch engine, peaked at 7000, and had a smaller cam than the C8AX cam.   Granted the heads were ported, but camshaft rules are camshaft rules.

I also don't share the same thoughts as you as to what the FE engine platform is about.  It's an iconic piece of history for sure, but in no means should we keep doing things the way we did them 60 years ago because it's a historical engine platform.   Every FE engine builder here exists for the sole purpose of bringing the FE into the modern world of technology.   

« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 01:36:57 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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FElony

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #34 on: March 18, 2020, 01:44:28 PM »
There have been several FE Reunion videos that include cars idling about in the pits and such. Can anybody here pinpoint for a fact a shot of a D cam? It's a missing component of this discussion.

blykins

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #35 on: March 18, 2020, 02:11:39 PM »
There have been several FE Reunion videos that include cars idling about in the pits and such. Can anybody here pinpoint for a fact a shot of a D cam? It's a missing component of this discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=BEqpYAeuwg8&feature=emb_logo

That video goes with this car:

https://www.sheltonclassics.com/vehicles/220/1964-ford-fairlane-thunderbolt-tribute

So there ya go.

I think towd56's 390 on my Instagram sounds meaner......

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8E6oXvHzEK/
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports

FElony

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #36 on: March 18, 2020, 02:20:45 PM »
There have been several FE Reunion videos that include cars idling about in the pits and such. Can anybody here pinpoint for a fact a shot of a D cam? It's a missing component of this discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=BEqpYAeuwg8&feature=emb_logo

That video goes with this car:

https://www.sheltonclassics.com/vehicles/220/1964-ford-fairlane-thunderbolt-tribute

So there ya go.

I think towd56's 390 on my Instagram sounds meaner......

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8E6oXvHzEK/

Sorry, I'm going to go with the rapid but steady lope of the D cam over the random soon-to-have a cardiac episode of the really bitchin' wagon. Shame the tribute car doesn't have Hi Riser heads (would that alter the sound I wonder?). Here's the real thing from back in the day:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU09f49Bszw

blykins

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #37 on: March 18, 2020, 02:29:11 PM »
There have been several FE Reunion videos that include cars idling about in the pits and such. Can anybody here pinpoint for a fact a shot of a D cam? It's a missing component of this discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=BEqpYAeuwg8&feature=emb_logo

That video goes with this car:

https://www.sheltonclassics.com/vehicles/220/1964-ford-fairlane-thunderbolt-tribute

So there ya go.

I think towd56's 390 on my Instagram sounds meaner......

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8E6oXvHzEK/

Sorry, I'm going to go with the rapid but steady lope of the D cam over the random soon-to-have a cardiac episode of the really bitchin' wagon. Shame the tribute car doesn't have Hi Riser heads (would that alter the sound I wonder?). Here's the real thing from back in the day:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JU09f49Bszw

Myocardial infarction for the win!
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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FElony

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #38 on: March 18, 2020, 02:43:21 PM »
[snip]... Every FE engine builder here exists for the sole purpose of bringing the FE into the modern world of technology.

You mean, like bluetooth programmable distributors?  ::)

No offense, Brent, but you are too young to understand. You didn't live in "it" back then. I did. Others here did. Sometimes nostalgia is very deep. Sometimes one little thing can trigger a momentary transformation that envelopes you for a bit and is gone.

For those of us in the HO world from the beginning, the smell of Aurora racing oil and the sound of the brass gear mesh will do it. It's the 60's again. Never gets old.

1967 XR7 GT

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #39 on: March 18, 2020, 03:02:31 PM »
The thing about cam lope, has also something to do with the induction, or the amount of air taken in at idle. For reference hows about we use the D cam... :o... A single 4 barrel will lope more than a 2x4 setup, a 3x2 setup will have less lope than the 2x4 setup, a Weber setup or Stacked Inj, will have almost no lope at all, and it's not just with a D cam it's with any cam, the engine just runs more efficient when it's able to take in more air, simplified.
Richard

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blykins

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #40 on: March 18, 2020, 03:03:10 PM »
[snip]... Every FE engine builder here exists for the sole purpose of bringing the FE into the modern world of technology.

You mean, like bluetooth programmable distributors?  ::)

No offense, Brent, but you are too young to understand. You didn't live in "it" back then. I did. Others here did. Sometimes nostalgia is very deep. Sometimes one little thing can trigger a momentary transformation that envelopes you for a bit and is gone.

For those of us in the HO world from the beginning, the smell of Aurora racing oil and the sound of the brass gear mesh will do it. It's the 60's again. Never gets old.

No offense taken.  I'm a young pup compared to some of you fellers.  I can understand how nostalgia can run deep.   My father in law made a comment to me once.  While talking about cars, he told me that when guys get older and have some spare money to throw around, they usually end up buying cars that were popular when they were in high school.   To me, that's a Fox body Mustang.  To others, it's a '66 Fairlane or '63 Gal. 

However, there's a flip side to that....

There are guys, maybe older, maybe younger, who see guys talking up a nostalgic cam, and don't fully understand the in's and out's of it.  Lots of guys don't know much about camshafts at all and there are quite a few, that if they called me up wanting a cam for their 3.50 geared C6 Galaxie with a 390, C6 heads, factory intake, etc, etc., and I said "I'm gonna send you a cam with 273° duration at .050" lift...", they'd say, "Ok, whatever you think.", because they just don't know.

In the same token, when the dude on the other forum spoke up and said he was having 20 of these D cams made by Comp, I think a lot of guys ordered them, not knowing what they were getting into. 
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
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Heo

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #41 on: March 18, 2020, 03:05:49 PM »
There have been several FE Reunion videos that include cars idling about in the pits and such. Can anybody here pinpoint for a fact a shot of a D cam? It's a missing component of this discussion.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=16&v=BEqpYAeuwg8&feature=emb_logo

That video goes with this car:

https://www.sheltonclassics.com/vehicles/220/1964-ford-fairlane-thunderbolt-tribute

So there ya go.

I think towd56's 390 on my Instagram sounds meaner......

https://www.instagram.com/p/B8E6oXvHzEK/

I dont know if the D cam sounds much different than my 282S . And he probably have 4 into one headers.
And i have stock shorty castiron headers Yes he revs it so the microphone dont can take it. But maybe thats me
that dont have the proper ears

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hu0N8MUT1u8



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Barry_R

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #42 on: March 18, 2020, 03:10:05 PM »
In my reply, regarding duration, I did mead MORE, standard flat tappet duration. 6200 rpm isn't where that TP needs to be, the only way to increase the rpm, is with duration on the early cam lobes. The high flowing TP ports, weren't created for a low rpm engine and streetability was not their purpose, at all! They were a race head and that's how they need to be used. With a cam that peaks at 7000. I always wanted a set of SB TP's but, never found a set for sale.

Barry, was the cam checked for wear and timing? Also, in a car, the temp would be much higher and was the RT side A/F sensors disconnected and all the left side sensors hooked up?

Everyone keeps saying that "sound" is the reason people want that cam. You don't need a cam for sound, just pull the choke out and you've got that. For me, it's history, nothing else.

Here's a idea, why not hold a competition, using the "D" as the base line rule? That's kinda what the EMC is about. Are people interested in the FE because they are "modern" or because they are one of the best "old" engine. The FE is about history. You can add modern components to it but, basically it is a high end, historical engine, one of the best Ford ever produced!

The cam was run through a break in cycle just to be safe, but it was not checked or altered from its 1979 vintage installation.  Owner bolted on the heads, we set lash, and let it eat.  No indications of distress or problems with the valvetrain of any sort.

The temperature in the posted pull looks pretty realistic to me - a lot of drag cars come to the line way colder than that - cold water and hot oil would add power in many cases.

The air/fuel info is only on one channel because the other sensor was connected to the Holley EFI system - so I had one to look at and the computer had the other - we compared data a few times and were usually within a couple tenths of each other.

I know we all want it to make more - but it don't - and there is nothing wrong with this engine.  I have had tunnel port engines make over 600 with dual quads and more cubes, on pump gas, with a much shorter duration cam, albeit a roller.  I would certainly hope that we have learned a few things over the past fifty years of development, and those advances do not in any way diminish the contributions or successes of those who paved the way before us.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2020, 05:27:31 PM by Barry_R »

Heo

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #43 on: March 18, 2020, 03:11:17 PM »



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

gt350hr

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Re: C8AX-6250D Cam
« Reply #44 on: March 18, 2020, 04:04:06 PM »
    frnkeore,
         Don't waste your time looking for SB tunnel ports. I ran them in the day and ran them again in 2000. Thought I had learned a thing or two in 32 years. Stroked it to 331, made it a true 13.5-1 , added a solid roller ( 252x.700 int 260x.640 on a 106) , Ti valves. Made about 460 and was a pig under 3,800. Sold the top end,bought Vic Jr's , LOST compression (11.6) and made over 520. Picked up SIX tenths and 4MPH .
   Randy