Author Topic: I broke my toy in Detroit!!! Updated Jan 2020  (Read 14280 times)

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Bolted to Floor

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I broke my toy in Detroit!!! Updated Jan 2020
« on: June 23, 2019, 11:31:33 PM »
Ok guys, we the car to the Mustang Steve Bash in Clinton Michigan and made it up with no issues. We are now in Detroit!! Had just shifted back into 5th gear around 50. The car started to shake, I thought a tire came apart. I pushed in the clutch and headed for the side of the road. On the way to the shoulder the engine died. Did a walk around on the side of the road, all tires are good. Under the hood, all looks as it should. Try to start the car, it does not want to turn over. 
After a wrecker ride to the nearest hotel, I start looking for the cause.
No water in the oil.
No loss of coolant in radiator.
Pull valve covers, push rods look like they are supposed to, nothing appears bent or out of place.




Pulled the spark plugs, they appear ok to me. 

1-4 right to left


5-8 top to bottom

Use the ignition to spin the motor over. It goes about a turn and a half then stops. Hit the key again, and it spins even less and stops. Popped the distributor cap to look at rotor, it turns as the motor turns.
Loosened all belts, the water pump and all accessories spin freely. No improvement to length of time engine will spin over.
I used a long ratchet on the harmonic balancer bolt, it was all I could do to get it to rotate a small amount.
 
Took a picture through the hole in Scatter shield of clutch and TO bearing. It looks like it should.


I don’t have an oil pressure gauge, it hadn’t made it high enough on my priority list.

I have looked at all I can think of and went about as far as I can without draining the oil, have I missed anything? Thoughts?

I have a bad feeling about a spun bearing or something worse.

.060 390 block with 3.98 crank, about 9.5 compression on cast pistons, hydraulic roller cam, RPM intake.
« Last Edit: January 02, 2020, 10:11:15 AM by Bolted to Floor »
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

Bolted to Floor

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2019, 11:35:44 PM »
Short video.   :-\. My wife waited for a 3 count between attempts.

https://youtu.be/A514V_g9vh0
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

67428GT500

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2019, 11:52:35 PM »
Were the plugs out when you turned it over?
                                              -Keith

WConley

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #3 on: June 24, 2019, 12:17:38 AM »
I'm afraid something bad happened to your oil supply (based upon how dry it is under the valve covers in the video)  :-[

The oil pump could have seized and twisted up the drive shaft, or the pickup side could have lost its seal.  It does indeed act like burned up bottom end bearings. 

I hope I'm wrong and it's an easier fix  :'( :'(
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

67428GT500

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2019, 02:49:03 AM »
That doesn't look dry at all. Look at the returns. I have .075 restrictors in the supply for the rockers. I also have enlarged the returns. Everything is wet and there is a puddle of oil sitting in the returns on the end. He didn't mention anything about a knock or unusual lifter noise. However, you may be right.  All but one plug looked pretty damn good. Makes me wonder about hydraulic lock up and a bent rod.  He can pick up an electric drill and a cheap  10" 1/4" extension and a 1/4" socket and put it on the pump shaft, spin it and see if he gets oil up to the top end. I personally would NEVER be without an oil pressure gauge. We know how things go with an FE.
I sure the hell hope it turns out to be something stupid like a starter.  I feel his frustration after pulling my engine out three times around a 16,000 paint job because of piss poor machine work.
                                                                                   -Keith

Bolted to Floor

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2019, 05:53:23 AM »
Were the plugs out when you turned it over?
                                              -Keith

Yes
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2019, 06:06:13 AM »
I'm afraid something bad happened to your oil supply (based upon how dry it is under the valve covers in the video)  :-[

The oil pump could have seized and twisted up the drive shaft, or the pickup side could have lost its seal.  It does indeed act like burned up bottom end bearings. 

I hope I'm wrong and it's an easier fix  :'( :'(

I hadn’t thought about the oil supply issues. The heads do have oil restrictors and it sat for close to 2 hours before I tried to turn it over. And now that you mention it, the oil wasn’t spilling off of the head when I pulled the valve cover.
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

Bolted to Floor

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2019, 06:16:53 AM »
That doesn't look dry at all. Look at the returns. I have .075 restrictors in the supply for the rockers. I also have enlarged the returns. Everything is wet and there is a puddle of oil sitting in the returns on the end. He didn't mention anything about a knock or unusual lifter noise. However, you may be right.  All but one plug looked pretty damn good. Makes me wonder about hydraulic lock up and a bent rod.  He can pick up an electric drill and a cheap  10" 1/4" extension and a 1/4" socket and put it on the pump shaft, spin it and see if he gets oil up to the top end. I personally would NEVER be without an oil pressure gauge. We know how things go with an FE.
I sure the hell hope it turns out to be something stupid like a starter.  I feel his frustration after pulling my engine out three times around a 16,000 paint job because of piss poor machine work.
                                                                                   -Keith

Keith this all happened in what seemed like 4-7 seconds. The car shaking took my attention, a knock could have been mixed in there that just didn’t register in my ears.

I will check the distributor to make sure whatever cylinder it’s pointing at is up top to fire. A sheared pin is the only other thing that has come to mind.

Not looking forward to pulling the motor back out either. It will give me a chance to dimple the header tube that’s making contact with the idler arm bolt!!
John D -- 67 Mustang 390 5 speed

BattlestarGalactic

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2019, 07:48:08 AM »
Have you put your finger over every plug hole to make sure you have compression in every cylinder?

Seems strange, but if you can't turn it by hand, then it's bad situation.
Larry

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2019, 08:18:16 AM »
Have you put your finger over every plug hole to make sure you have compression in every cylinder?

Seems strange, but if you can't turn it by hand, then it's bad situation.

From his description he can't turn it enough to do anything.  If it was mine, I'd truck it back to the barn and get the engine up on a stand.  If the battery is fresh and the starter decent, it sure sounds bound up somewhere.  At the very least put a drill driver on the oil pump and see if it has oil pressure.  If you can spin the pump and no pressure, there's the thing.  If you have good oil pressure then not sure.  Not being able to turn the motor over with a breaker bar and the plugs out says loss of oil to me. 

shady

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2019, 08:24:27 AM »
I had a .060 over 390 do that. Block broke through in a cylinder and hydro locked the motor. I was amazed at how thin the cyl. walls were at .060.
What goes fast doesn't go fast long'
What goes fast takes your money with it.
So I'm slow & broke, what went wrong?
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Falcon67

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2019, 08:27:32 AM »
Same on a 351C but pulling the plugs let me know ASAP that's what the deal was. 

Sometimes during tear down, things just sort of jump out at you.




gregb

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #12 on: June 24, 2019, 09:05:33 AM »
How much voltage does that battery have?  What's all that extra stuff hooked to the positive terminal?  I'd do as has been suggested, pull the distributor and use a drill to see if there is pressure. 

GerryP

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #13 on: June 24, 2019, 10:22:02 AM »
I cranks like it is suffering a hydraulic, but given you've tried with the plugs out, that can't be it.  I would have to go with piston(s) seizing in the bore.  If it was a bottom end issue, you probably would have heard the knocking well before.  As to the causes; detonation, overheating, inadequate piston to wall, tight rings.

Joe-JDC

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Re: I broke my toy in Detroit!!!
« Reply #14 on: June 24, 2019, 10:30:55 AM »
In your first statement, you say the car started to shake and you thought a tire had come apart.  Something had to cause the imbalance, and in my experience that was a broken rod that did not show up until I pulled a head and a piston didn't move.  The rod broke in two places and the big end stayed on the crankshaft, but the piston was held in place at the top of the bore and the engine shook like it had a plug wire off.  The engine would start and run, but was down on power, running on 7 cylinders.  Joe-JDC
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