Let the debunking begin

[Royce]

I find this story hard to believe, but I have no specific knowledge.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25220/lot/180/

[chris401]

I find this story hard to believe, but I have no specific knowledge.

https://www.bonhams.com/auctions/25220/lot/180/

The car is about two hours North of me. The owner said it is leaving for auction 10 days from today. The ad has some of his cars mis represented. The 65 cammer has 65 Lincoln suspension with front disc brakes with a 4 link 9" rear 2 1/2" drums. Mr. Fuche told me a bit about this car and how Ford got caught showing this car repainted as a different car. The owner confirmed that story. Hopefully I will create the opportunity to look at in person before it is shipped to Ct.

[babybolt]

From the link:

"The original data plate was missing from the car and there was little paperwork included."

[Royce]

Not throwing stones, but I hope he has a paper trail to back it up..65 Lincolns were unibody and the Gal has a frame.. Might be quite an operation to switch them over and get decent geometry.. I could believe Lincoln disc brakes on a Ford but wonder about complete suspension.  This reminds me of the 427 in a Mustang controversy. Hope you get to look it over Chris.

[chris401]

Not throwing stones, but I hope he has a paper trail to back it up..65 Lincolns were unibody and the Gal has a frame.. Might be quite an operation to switch them over and get decent geometry.. I could believe Lincoln disc brakes on a Ford but wonder about complete suspension.  This reminds me of the 427 in a Mustang controversy. Hope you get to look it over Chris.

I don't know how good of a look I can get. Been interested in this car for the past 30 years.

[67428GT500]

I also don't show a "M" engine code in any Ford or Merc manuals I have. As a matter of fact the cammer isn't covered in any service manual I own, which covers most FOMOCO products from 63-68 in my library. There have been a bunch of crap coming out if the woodwork lately. Did anyone see the Dark Pony Shelby supposedly built all while engulfed GT350 Program? I used to go over and talk to Little Joe and Carroll Shelby at the Gardena Tire Distributorship.  Shelby was never a warm fuzzy hugger, as this person claims. He was brash, to the point and often countered anyone who had an opinion that differed from him. Usually with colorful language.  What I appreciated is he wasn't a person who said things behind your back, he was confrontational and direct.
I know most people get butt-hurt over people who are direct these days. It's why the cry-babies have an issue with Trump.  He doesn't candy-coat and is a doer, not a talker. He follows his vision. I agree as a former military officer that sometimes diplomacy is over-rated and simply waste time and resources.
Anyway, back on topic:  Without Ford documents that prove without a doubt this was built by Ford it just becomes another cool car.
                                                                             
                                                                                           -Keith

[preaction]

I found this for 67 motor listings.

[67428GT500]

You show what I do. No M. Nor "production" vehicles with an installation of the SOHC. Even if it was a Ford "Skunk Works" car I doubt at this late stage that it wouldn't have surfaced with the paperwork to substantiate its existence. 
No doubt a great combination none the less.

[Royce]

Has anyone ever heard of this Watkins Glenn secret test site?  Why would Ford pick a road course for testing if they were preparing for NASCAR?

This has lawsuit written all over it..  The savvy Ford buyer will see through it, but quasi endorsement by Bonham's may entice someone who is less tapped in to Ford history to pay up believing the story is fact.. When a knowledgeable Ford guy pokes holes in the story, the buyer may seek recourse.. OH WELL  Caveat Emptor

[mbrunson427]

This has lawsuit written all over it..  The savvy Ford buyer will see through it, but quasi endorsement by Bonham's may entice someone who is less tapped in to Ford history to pay up believing the story is fact.. When a knowledgeable Ford guy pokes holes in the story, the buyer may seek recourse.. OH WELL  Caveat Emptor

It's funny you say that..... I was just on vacation and the guy staying next to our room was a US Martial. He got to telling stories one night about cases he's dealt with and one of them was eerily similar to this, but with wine. The guy sold a couple bottles of wine out of his "collection" and made up some grand story about them, sold them for 7 figures. Ended up locked up.

[gt350hr]

   Royce ,
       You are SPOT ON! The Ford X garage was AT FORD in Michigan , not Watkins Glen NY!!! The late Bill Holbrook ( rip) ran it. It was not secret at all. MANY engine combinations were tested there. One of the oddest was the installation of an all aluminum pushrod 255 Indy engine into an early Galaxie with headers that went straight up in the air. ( no hood). They had "pool cars" that were used for testing all kinds of prototype things , calibration of engine and powertrain parts for specific applications. Bob "Jumpy" Snider was one of the "test" drivers. IF this car is real , it WOULD have a brass "asset tag" as all of the X garage cars did to keep track of them.
  My Ford literature does not give an engine code for a '65 cammer but does show D for a '66 dual four car. We know there were two '66s made ( Passino and Gordon Cooper) plus the drag cars of Mike Schmidt and Jerry Harvey , plus the "mule" '64 done at the X garage. Bill never mentioned this one in any of my conversations with him.
     One MAJOR thing like the X garage being in NY makes ALL the rest suspicious "to me".
    Randy

[cammerfe]

It was common at FoMoCo to have experimental areas in many production plants. The one at T&C Livonia was located just 'inboard' of the Executive garage in the southwest corner of the plant. They were forever playing with things. After going through a project, the parts would be displayed in the experimental area. We saw several iterations of a C6 with the bell cut off and a scattershield fastened on with the pump bolts. They were figuring out ways to drive the pump with a converter hub and ways of engaging the pressure plate.

On another occasion, they brought a '69 Mustang in and converted it into a Boss 302 car for Trans-Am racing. I seem to remember the engine on a pallet, strapped down, with Bud Moore shipping-labels attached. The plant manager's son wanted to go road racing. He was later killed in a 'round-the-houses' SCCA race in Pontiac.

When Bunkie Knudson came to Ford, he had a Mustang made -up specially for his wife. It was in our garage for some of the work. I don't know exactly what all was done, but the car was painted pink and it had a 'Shaker' scoop through the hood although the engine was a more-or-less base 302.

KS

[ntheogen]

I've seen the car twice and know the owner, buyer beware and then some on this one...

[CDXXVII]

I also don't show a "M" engine code in any Ford or Merc manuals I have. As a matter of fact the cammer isn't covered in any service manual I own, which covers most FOMOCO products from 63-68 in my library.

From what I have read the car has zero documentation. I can't figure why the VIN code for the assembly plant shows Dearborn (F) but Dearborn was building Mustangs in 1965. Mr Rummel is a real nice guy but he may have been snookered when he bought the car way back when.

Keith-If you have the 1965 factory Ford shop manual it shows the M engine code on page 4. Evidently the plug was pulled on the cammer after the books were sent to print.

[TomP]

Is that the car the guy with a huge collection of parts had for sale a few months ago?

 http://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/one-of-one-big-block-cammer-ford-galaxie-heads-to-auction/ar-AABsMDx?li=AAggFp0&ocid=mailsignout