CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE

[fe66comet]

What size damper I am going 7" or 7.5" haven't decided yet. Either way I am going to be running a different set up anyhow but was wondering what you based your estimates on?

[afret]

Maybe the easiest way is to just use the longer inlet tube which can be sectioned and welded back together at a slight angle to clear the fuel pump mount?  Just got to make sure it's in the right direction when fully tightened.

[jayb]

I thought about doing that Earl, but one thing about that idea bothers me.  Those fittings screw into the pump and compress an O-ring.  Every one could be a little different in terms of the angle where it finally gets tight, so it would be hard to include a standardized part with the adapters.  On top of that, with an angle on the inlet tube now you've got a lever that could act to unscrew the tube.  After a while with vibration and heat cycles in the car, if the radiator hose pulled down and the tube started to unscrew a little the hose could drop onto the balancer and you could burn a hole through the radiator hose, or maybe start to leak at the pump if the O-ring took a set and then the tube loosened.

I think I found a different solution today.  The tubes shown in your photo are what CVR calls their "standard" and "long" tubes.  The one I currently have is the standard.  However, they also have a "short" tube, which I think will get the tube outlet farther back towards the pump.  If the short tube was used, and a molded lower hose with an S shape was attached to it, you could clear the fuel pump boss on the timing cover.

Today I went to the local parts store and talked my way into the back room with a tape measure, where all the radiator hoses were hanging on the wall.  I picked out one that looked promising and brought it home.  Tonight the first thing I did was to bolt the pump and adapters onto my old 428CJ dyno mule, to look at the clearance from the pump inlet tube to the harmonic balancer.  There appears to be no problem:



Here's another shot from straight on the fuel pump mounting flange, showing the interference problem with the standard inlet tube.  Boy, that motor needs a cleanup 



With the inlet tube removed, next I stuck my molded radiator hose up to where it would be mounted.  Looks like it will clear the fuel pump mounting flange without any trouble:



As it is the molded hose sticks out too far forward, but I'll bet I can find one that will work now that I know that this one is close.  Or, this one could be cut and spliced together with some 1 1/2" tube to keep it from sticking so far forward.  I'll go back to the parts store tomorrow and try to find a better one.  I ordered the short inlet tube today, so hopefully I'll have that by the end of the week and be able to finalize a solution.

Another piece of good news is that when Rob sent me the photos of the power steering pump bracket, it rang a bell with me; I knew I had one of those things somewhere.  Tonight I spent about 20 minutes looking in the top floor of my barn (which is where all the old parts are LOL!), and I found it, along with the power steering pump my Mach 1 had on it when I purchased it.  So now I've got everything I need for a complete mock-up of both sides of the engine.  Assuming I can successfully solve the lower hose issue, its full speed ahead again on this project...

[fe66comet]

I have been watching each development as they come in the suspense is killing me!!! I think when its all over we will all breathe a sigh of relief Jay LOL

[afret]

Jay, that's a good idea, and seems like it would work.  Simple is good.     Would it be helpful to move the water pump just a little bit forward to make sure there's sufficient space for the hose and clamp?  Really appreciate all your hard work.  Thanks!

[jayb]

Jay, that's a good idea, and seems like it would work.  Simple is good.     Would it be helpful to move the water pump just a little bit forward to make sure there's sufficient space for the hose and clamp?  Really appreciate all your hard work.  Thanks!

Yeah, I was thinking about moving it forward about 1/4" to gain just a bit more clearance.  That would make it exactly even with the front nub of the Edelbrock pump, so it shouldn't pose any radiator or fan clearance problems.  We'll see how it works out...

[fe66comet]

Sometimes the simple solution turns the best result. Sometimes I will spend weeks re-engineering a project only to find someone else already figured  out a strait forword solution to a seemingly impossible problem.

[fetorino]

Bad news, Rob, the alternator bracket mount on the right side adapter won't allow the tube to clear on that side either.  I didn't think that was an issue when I was designing that side, but I had not considered someone who would be using a two pass radiator.  I'll have to look at that side to see if I can modify the design so the tube will clear.

It's great to get all these issues aired out on the front end of this project; this is a much better scenario than designing the parts and finding out about all the potential issues later...

Jay if the modular bolt on lower alternator mounting point was not there would the fitting work on the passengers side?  If so I know a guy who will take your practice effort and run with it.

[jayb]

Actually it wouldn't because of the way the adapter is configured to add that mount.  But when I do a right side mount without any alternator mounting provisions it will fit then.  That's probably what you wanted anyway, right? 

[fe66comet]

So how is the project coming along Jay any revelations?

[jayb]

I found a lower radiator hose that will work, and am just waiting for the short tube from CVR to attach the tube and confirm everything.  Got more machining planned for the weekend...

[afret]

Which hose did you find that looks like it will work?  Is it one that will work on a stock type radiator with the 1 3/4" outlet and is 1 1/2" on the other end to fit the water pump inlet tube?  You must have spent a lot of time at the auto parts store going though all their hoses.  Thanks again for all the time and effort you're putting into this project.

[jayb]

Its a Gates hose, application unknown but I have the number.  It is 1 1/2" all the way, so some kind of an adapter will still be required to fit a normal lower FE hose, but I've used those cheap exhaust adapters with success for that before, so that will be no big deal, I think.

[jayb]

So this week I worked on the water hose problem, and think I have a solution with the short CVR adapter (which came on Friday this week, after I ordered it on Monday.  Not bad, since CVR is in Canada.)  My trips to the radiator hose rack at the local parts store have paid dividends in that I found a pretty cheap hose ($12) that can be easily modified to fit with the short hose adapter.  After roughing in the right side pump adapter last weekend, this week I worked on getting that finalized so that the machining program was ready for production.  After test fitting the lower radiator hose and short hose adapter, though, I found that I had to move the water pump out just a little bit to get the hose to fit over the adapter.  So, that set me back, because all the G code for the machining operations had to be modified to reflect this.  I only had to move the pump out 1/8", so it is still not quite as far out as the Edelbrock pump, but that didn't matter; all the code still had to change.  So, starting Friday night I made another one, with the modified code and some improvements to the machining operations that I thought would result in a better looking part.  And they did, but I'm still not there; the finish isn't quite right on all of the surfaces yet.  One problem is that I'm using a long 1/2" end mill for some of the deep cutting, and it tends to flex when it cuts and leaves a rougher than desired finish.  But, its not too bad; here's a couple of photos:





With this version I added the scallops on the face of the adapter where it bolts to the CVR pump, so that matches up pretty nicely now.  I also added the groove for an O-ring that was suggested earlier; I'm beginning to like that idea more and more.  Who wants to screw around with gaskets if you don't have to? Anyway, I think I'll make one more round of modifications to the code for to this part to get the finish up to standards, and then it should be ready to go

Once I had the piece finished I bolted it onto the pump and re-installed it on the engine, this time with the power steering pump and brackets also installed.  This adapter is not yet set up for the holes to mount the PS pump brackets, but I'm working on that version now.  I figure that a lot of people won't want the version for the PS pump brackets, since a lot of us won't be running power steering. The photos below show the new left side adapter installed, along with the lower radiator hose.  Everything looks like it clears OK:









Also, when I got the new CVR lower hose adapter this week I also ordered the #16 AN fitting adapter.  Next week I'll pick up a #16 45 degree hose end, and check to make sure that fits also, so anybody who wants to run AN hose to the lower radiator inlet can do so. 

As usual, this is all taking longer than I originally anticipated, but I'm making pretty steady progress on this now, and am still hopeful that I'll be done with the set of four different adapters (right side plain, right side with alternator bracket mounts, left side plain, and left side with power steering bracket mounts) by the end of the month.  We will see.  Also I am still soliciting input on any improvements or modifications that may be desirable for these parts, so if anybody has any ideas on this I'd love to hear them.  Now would be the time...   Thanks, Jay

[fe66comet]

Probably another dumb question, my original pump has a hose barb coming out the back going to the intake manifold. I am sure you are way ahead of me on this Jay but what is it for?