Author Topic: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE  (Read 102379 times)

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afret

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #165 on: February 17, 2013, 10:50:13 PM »
Sorry to hear about all the problems.    At least your daughter missed the mailbox.  :)

Interesting about the horsepower increase.  It's more than I would have guessed.

Do you think the few adapters you made with the round o-ring groove will work on a Genesis which has a round water hole on both sides?  Looks like it probably would in the photo.   

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #166 on: February 17, 2013, 10:55:55 PM »
That's a good thought; I'd hate to waste those.  I don't know about Genesis, but I'll check them on my Pond and Shelby blocks and see.  I imagine if they fit those, they would fit the Genesis block too.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

afret

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #167 on: February 17, 2013, 11:57:47 PM »
Yeah, those aluminum pieces must cost a lot.  I'm going to use this pump on a Genesis block so when I buy a set,  I could use one of those with the round groove for the drivers side so it won't be wasted.

fetorino

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #168 on: February 18, 2013, 12:03:59 AM »
I can't remember if the Pond hole were round or not but if they are Jay you know where another round set could go.

BruceS

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #169 on: February 18, 2013, 10:12:45 AM »
Jay, glad to hear the adapters worked out after all... Sounds like you might be able to sell those round o ring groove drivers side parts too.  I have to LOL thinking about teaching your daughter how to drive!  I went through that about 18 years ago with mine  ;)  you really need a lot of patience but the experience is worth it, for both of you.

Bruce
66 Fairlane 500, 347-4V SB stroker, C4
63 Galaxie 500 fastback, 482 SO 4V, Cruise-O-Matic

machoneman

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #170 on: February 18, 2013, 05:51:42 PM »
Wow, lotsa work to get it all right.

Do you think that the 10 hp gain would increase (at all, or no) in a 7,000+ rpm engine or is it a one-time constant? 
Bob Maag

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #171 on: February 18, 2013, 07:14:20 PM »
I think the faster you spin the mechanical water pump, the more horsepower it will take.  So I would think that the power benefits of an electric pump would be more pronounced at higher engine speeds.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

fe66comet

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #172 on: February 19, 2013, 12:02:04 AM »
Another factor is when the pump spins too fast it causes cavitation which causes surges in load , one second no water them another too much head pressure causing surges in load.

M-train

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #173 on: February 22, 2013, 05:56:49 PM »
My take on that is that you can never have too much flow from the water pump.  The thermostat will function to restrict water flow to the radiator, but I'm not sure that enters into the equation.  Not to open up a somewhat famous argument about cooling  ;D, but I'm not one of those folks who believes that you need to slow down the water in the radiator to make it cool.  No matter how fast the water is going in the radiator, the same amount of water is contained in the radiator at all times, and the same amount of cooling per unit time is taking place.  While it is true that if a particular "parcel" of water goes through the radiator faster, it will receive less cooling, it is also true that the same parcel of water will go through the engine faster, and therefore receive less heating.  Thermodynamically, it all evens out.  Another way to think of this is that if you slow down the water in the radiator, as it exits it will be cooler, but then it will travel through the engine slower, so as it comes out of the engine it will be hotter.  Thinking of it in that way, the faster you can circulate water in the cooling system, the more stable the cooling system temperature will be.  If I could bolt a 100 gpm pump onto any of my engines, I'd do it.

Going reverse through the cooling system, on the other hand, makes a lot of sense from a horsepower perspective, because the water will be at its coolest coming out of the radiator, and the cylinder heads are where most of the heat is.  So, cooler water will absorb more heat from the heads than water that has already been heated somewhat by traveling through the block.  The horsepower gain is thermodynamic; keeping the combustion chamber and intake charge cooler by reducing the cylinder head temperature results in more heat extracted from the combustion process.  However, I don't know if you can just reverse the polarity of the electric pump motor to effect this change; I haven't taken my CVR pump apart to see if the impeller is directional.  I strongly suspect that it is, in which case a different impeller would be required in addition to the polarity change on the motor.

Maybe I'll take my CVR pump apart and look this weekend...

NO, I would think that wouldn't be possible. I took two aluminum mechanical water pumps apart to see the impellers.

One pump was standard rotation, the other was reverse. The impellers were different as in backward to one another. So there wouldn't be a way to simply flip them over to work a different way.

Now, what you could do is call the company and get the shaft size, and impeller dimensions for a 5.0l engine. If they are the same, and I bet they would be for simplicity, you could just swap impellers, and then the polarity on the motor.

Also, remember Mario 428 makes the alternator brackets for these electric pumps if you need one. I have one on my setup with a Procharger, and Mez electric pump.

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #174 on: February 22, 2013, 07:38:49 PM »
Thanks for confirming that, since I never got around to taking my CVR pump apart.  Pusher and puller electric fans also have reversed blades, so it makes sense that forward and reverse flow water pumps would have reversed blades too.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

69Cobra

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #175 on: February 25, 2013, 09:57:27 AM »
Any idea when these guys will hit the market?
Kris Rachford
69 Cobra 428 CJ Jerico 4 speed
NHRA C/Stock Eliminator 3032

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #176 on: February 25, 2013, 10:36:07 AM »
Should be Thursday or Friday this week.  I'm currently building a little inventory before I put them up for sale...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

69Cobra

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #177 on: February 25, 2013, 10:45:49 AM »
Kris Rachford
69 Cobra 428 CJ Jerico 4 speed
NHRA C/Stock Eliminator 3032

jayb

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #178 on: February 25, 2013, 11:02:06 AM »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cdmbill2

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Re: CVR Electric Water Pump Adapters for the FE
« Reply #179 on: February 27, 2013, 08:31:09 PM »
Jay as always simply amazing work! A couple notes to this thread, but in full disclosure I have a 385 motor Mustang currently so take this with the appropriate skepticism or not.

I always end up using Ultra Grey Silicone on the smaller diameter o-rings that come on the CSR and Meziere pumps where they connect to the timing cover and block. Otherwise they eventually leak.

On the age old use a thermostat to slow the water down I'd refer everyone to the Stewart water pumps tech pages. They make NASCAR water pumps which are mechanical but they debunk that old wives tale for similar reasoning to Jay's

I don't run a thermostat on my electric fan/electric pump cooled street car. It currently makes around 1000 HP and does fine in all kinds of driving conditions including track days, auto-x and even pulling a trailer. I have two Drag Week jackets, not three or four like Jay but I think its proof that the all electric system can work.

Rather than try reverse cooling I'd suggest pulling water from the back of the manifold/heads to facilitate combustion chamber cooling. This means changing the size of some of the holes in the head gasket. I got my info on this proceedure from Jon Kaase at Engine Masters for the 385, I'm sure someone (maybe Barry R.?) as tried this on an FE.

I now run an Afco dual pass radiator which made a significant difference in a similar size form factor. Jay's setup allows that and I'd look seriously at Dual pass if you don't want to cut your radiator cradle.