Author Topic: FE Power Cylinder Heads  (Read 16179 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Joe-JDC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • Truth stands on its own merit.
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #135 on: March 16, 2019, 11:11:07 AM »
Jay, is there any way you could let me epoxy an exhaust port and flow it to pick up the flow?  I know you have great people around you, but I really would like to try to help make that exhaust flow ~70% of the intake flow for you.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

WConley

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 594
  • No longer walking funny!
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #136 on: March 16, 2019, 12:59:13 PM »
Very nice Jay!  You know better than any of us how tough it is to get something usable on your first try.  I can't believe you're getting 400 CFM as-cast.  That's rarified air!  That flow combined with the modern chamber should make for quite a stormer.
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6268
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #137 on: March 16, 2019, 01:17:46 PM »
Jay, is there any way you could let me epoxy an exhaust port and flow it to pick up the flow?  I know you have great people around you, but I really would like to try to help make that exhaust flow ~70% of the intake flow for you.  Joe-JDC

Joe, I may take you up on that but I want to try to get the design error corrected first before I do.  For sure at some point I will send you a head, or a portion of a head, and see what you can do with it.  I'm thinking that this is a 475 cfm head with some significant port work, and I'd love to see how close you can get to that.  Thanks for the offer - Jay
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-JDC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • Truth stands on its own merit.
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #138 on: March 16, 2019, 02:46:29 PM »
Be glad to help with anything I can.  NO Charge.  Confidential, too!  LOL  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

Joey120373

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #139 on: March 16, 2019, 02:51:39 PM »
Wow, great numbers on the intake ports. Seems odd to me that the exhaust didn't do better, having the seat hang over the port isn't ideal, but the air is blowing out the port so I would not have thought it could hurt flow that much. Those exhaust ports look like they should flow like gang busters, then again I remember back in the day when a good aftermarket SBC head with a 2.02 intake valve was doing pretty good to get 230 cfm on the intake.


Just looked up the numbers on a set of Lingenfelter CNC ported LS7 heads, they are pretty similar, though the LS7 heads flow somewhat better everywhere under .700 lift. But this is comparing a well developed CNC ported casting to a first cast prototype fresh out of the mold, not really fair but it bodes well for the FE power head. Your exhaust ports do better at all points under .600 lift though, so even though they aren't as good as you would like they are better than the LS7.

Here are the numbers from Lingenfelters web page :

LPE CNC Ported LS7 Flow Specs
Intake valve lift / Exhaust valve lift
.200 - 174 cfm / .200 - 120 cfm
.300 - 256 cfm / .300 - 164 cfm
.400 - 312 cfm / .400 - 200 cfm
.500 - 352 cfm / .500 - 222 cfm
.600 - 384 cfm / .600 - 234 cfm
.650 - 395 cfm / .650 - 239 cfm
.690 - 396 cfm / .690 - 242 cfm

Intake runner size: 272 CC
Exhaust runner size: 90 CC

I also found this article,   https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1203-7-top-ls7-heads/   
  its fairly sparse on specifics, but its a dyno comparison of several LS7 heads on a 13-1CR 495ci LS engine with a large hydraulic roller. The heads listed above were in the mix. 
They made a spread of 763-810 HP between 7 different heads on the same short block.
I have a funny feeling that, given the somewhat similar specs of Jays dyno mule and this LS engine, that Jay sould have no trouble eclipsing the 800 HP mark on his 504, I hope there will bw an epic " guess the horsepower " thread in the near future.

Dumpling

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 172
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #140 on: March 16, 2019, 04:02:10 PM »
You never test your CNC programming using blocks of wax?
Seems like reusable wax might be more cost-effective in discovering programming issues...

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6268
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #141 on: March 16, 2019, 04:45:16 PM »
I never use that stuff, and I don't know anyone else who does either.  I think its one of those things that nobody uses anymore...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Dan859

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #142 on: March 17, 2019, 12:32:40 AM »
Quote
Hi Jay,
Will that cross-ram intake system work on one of your regular intake adapters?  Because if it will, I think I'm going to have to make the jump to an EFI system)).
Thanks,
Dan

Sorry Dan, but the crossram setup will not fit my regular intake adapters.  The head is significantly different than any other FE head, and the induction systems I'm working on for it won't fit any other FE setup.

Sorry to hear that.  Any thoughts of a crossram system for the regular adapter in the future?

Ghoughton

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #143 on: March 17, 2019, 06:21:12 AM »
The amount of effort you put into documenting and displaying this entire process for us must be as exhausting as the design process itself! I can’t get enough of looking through the pictures and the info. I think you knocked it out of the park with the intake. To pull off those numbers on the first try is nothing short of amazing, and a testimony to the effort you put into the design. Out of curiosity,
I went to the Stan Weiss website to compare numbers for the entire curve. Hard to find un-ported numbers but your heads are comparable to A-460, C460, Kasse CHI 400. Your heads flow better through the entire curve than an as cast A-460 head. And those have a much larger cross section.
All I can say about that is “WOW”!! These are going to make some power!!

Joe-JDC

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 766
  • Truth stands on its own merit.
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #144 on: March 17, 2019, 10:57:35 PM »
The new Ford 7.3 truck pushrod engine looks to have exhaust ports that face up similar to your heads.  Will be interesting to see the actual engine in a vehicle.  The pictures and details are intriguing.  Joe-JDC
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

jayb

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6268
    • View Profile
    • FE Power
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #145 on: March 18, 2019, 08:24:08 PM »
Quote
Hi Jay,
Will that cross-ram intake system work on one of your regular intake adapters?  Because if it will, I think I'm going to have to make the jump to an EFI system)).
Thanks,
Dan

Sorry Dan, but the crossram setup will not fit my regular intake adapters.  The head is significantly different than any other FE head, and the induction systems I'm working on for it won't fit any other FE setup.

Sorry to hear that.  Any thoughts of a crossram system for the regular adapter in the future?

No plans for that at this point.  It would have to be a completely different design than the one I've already done, because the port spacing on a 351C intake is different than the port spacing on my heads.  It would be a lot of work and startup expense, and I just don't know if there is a market for it...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Dan859

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #146 on: March 19, 2019, 04:57:30 AM »
Quote
Quote
Hi Jay,
Will that cross-ram intake system work on one of your regular intake adapters?  Because if it will, I think I'm going to have to make the jump to an EFI system)).
Thanks,
Dan

Sorry Dan, but the crossram setup will not fit my regular intake adapters.  The head is significantly different than any other FE head, and the induction systems I'm working on for it won't fit any other FE setup.

Sorry to hear that.  Any thoughts of a crossram system for the regular adapter in the future?

No plans for that at this point.  It would have to be a completely different design than the one I've already done, because the port spacing on a 351C intake is different than the port spacing on my heads.  It would be a lot of work and startup expense, and I just don't know if there is a market for it...

Thanks for the info.  I guess it's back to the drawing board.

Joey120373

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #147 on: March 19, 2019, 06:52:27 AM »
There are several companies making ITB set ups for the 351C that should for Jays adapter. I think Borla is making a cross ram style, but most I’ve seen are down draft. Speedmaster79 has a cheep Chinese unit, though I wonder what the quality would be like on that.
EFI hardware out of Australia makes some nice looking Webber based ITB stuff that seems fairly reasonable. I was looking at their IDA based 55mm throttle body’s. About $400 each, so $1600 for a V8. Still have to get the 351c IDA manufold and a computer to run it all but still much cheaper than the $6000-$8000 price rage on a lot of the other systems I’ve looked at.

Dan859

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 120
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #148 on: March 19, 2019, 09:10:48 AM »
I've seen the Borla system, but it's really expensive.  I'll look at that EFI hardware out of Austrailia.  Thanks for the tips.

Joey120373

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 156
    • View Profile
Re: FE Power Cylinder Heads
« Reply #149 on: March 19, 2019, 09:40:29 AM »
Jay, is the exhaust port spacing and bolt pattern on Your head a unique design, or does it match some other common engine so that header flanges can be bought off the shelf?