Author Topic: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.  (Read 2963 times)

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mbrunson427

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #15 on: January 11, 2019, 11:36:08 AM »
By reading the rules, it is unclear if all components for the engine have to be set up for a claimed car? For example, if you're claiming a '68 Cobra Jet Mustang, would the oil pan, headers, etc all have to be for that claimed car? Or can you claim a '68 Cobra Jet Mustang engine, '68 4x4 truck oil pan and headers?

CaptCobrajet

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #16 on: January 11, 2019, 12:24:25 PM »
That's interesting Royce!  High Risers do run in Stock Eliminator!!
Blair Patrick

Royce

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2019, 04:05:16 PM »
I know tunnel ports were verboten,, I thought they mentioned the Hi-Riser in same breath. This will be like NHRA. The rule book is a suggestion. all decisions are final.  The rules will get made on the fly.
1948 Ford Pickup Street Rod 475 inch MEL C-6
1955 Thunderbird Competition Coupe Altered Chassis "War Bird" 383 Lincoln Y block 520 hp
1955 Thunderbird 292 275 hp Y Block
1956 Ford Victoria 312 Y block
1956 Mercury "Thumper"433 cu in 445 hp Lincoln Y Block
1957 Mercury "Mermaid" SOLD
1957 Mercury 2dr Wagon "Battle Wagon" drag car  Currently engineless
1957 Thunderbird Glass body Tube Chassis drag car 333 cu in 500 hp Ford Y block
1958 Mercury Monterey  430cu in 400hp 3x2 Super Marauder
1959 Ford C-500 292 4speed
1961 Galaxie Starliner 390/375 clone

mbrunson427

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #18 on: January 11, 2019, 05:07:06 PM »
Seems to me that a high riser would operate up past the RPM range of testing. In an A/S Fairlane, they only allow .500" lift, correct? If you take it and give it another .100" lift in this scenario you'd really have a screamer, but would not fall into the range of the scoring criteria. 428 would probably fall into the range better? Especially being that torque matters equal to horsepower as far as scoring is concerned.

CaptCobrajet

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #19 on: January 11, 2019, 05:20:25 PM »
10% stroke would put it about 4.160.  That would be good for the torque.  The head would be so much better than the CJ.  It just might run with the BBC.
Blair Patrick

machoneman

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #20 on: January 11, 2019, 05:37:07 PM »
Hey guys, its a lot of conjecture and I don't have, as they say, a dog in this hunt but.....

Maybe someone can put together a list of relevant questions to be e-mailed off. Hopefully, a reply won't take too long, allowing those who want to compete to start planning.
Bob Maag

CaptCobrajet

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #21 on: January 11, 2019, 06:43:32 PM »
I think I might jump in if the High Riser is allowed.  If it isn't, it  will be a 385 series Ford and BB Chevy show as far as big blocks are concerned.  It takes a High Riser to compete with the rectangle port BBC.  A Cobra Jet head can't get there without epoxy and brass. A 429 with the R head and 10% stroke will be strong, but the exhaust port on those is terrible.  That class will be interesting to see.
Blair Patrick

Barry_R

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #22 on: January 11, 2019, 07:24:36 PM »
"R" head won't be legal for the 385 guys - - cutoff is 1968.  They are limited to the T-bird stuff, which might still be OK from a torque perspective.  What if we take the CJ head and go the other way - pull bore and stroke down to reduce cubes since cid is a divisor?

There are other ways to fill a port besides welding and epoxy...

CaptCobrajet

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #23 on: January 11, 2019, 08:20:54 PM »
That's true, the R head is out, and the open chamber BBC is also out.  68 and back BBC had closed chambers and don't flow as well......

My thought would be to keep the stroke, since they cap the RPM at 6300.

Damned 400 small block can have inches and 7000 rpm.  That might be a bad hombre if it comes from Guilford, Indiana. 

406 Ford has good bore/stroke but the chamber sucks.  Badly shrouded. 

This bench racing is fun and cheap, LOL.
Blair Patrick

Stangman

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #24 on: January 11, 2019, 08:48:41 PM »
Why dont you guys do one together, put all your eggs in one basket and take one for the FE team. I dont know if that sounds dumb, it was just me talking out loud.

Joe-JDC

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #25 on: January 11, 2019, 10:04:07 PM »
Did the 400 SBC come on the scene before '69?  I admit I am a bit unsure about most things SBC, so just asking.  I will try to google it.  The small block Ford is definitely at a handicap for heads pre-'69.   Joe-JDC

PS:  Went to web and found 400 SBC came out in 1970.  350 in 1967, so the 350 can only have a stroke of 3.828 maximum. 
« Last Edit: January 11, 2019, 10:09:15 PM by Joe-JDC »
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CaptCobrajet

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #26 on: January 11, 2019, 10:18:23 PM »
Hey!  Another good observation.  So the 400 SBC is out.  Max Wedgie could be tough.  Hemi needs compression to really shine.  Hmmmmmm
Blair Patrick

Rory428

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #27 on: January 12, 2019, 02:48:19 AM »
Maybe I read the rules wrong, but it said the engine needs to have been introduced in 1968 or earlier. Does that mean everything on the engine is required to be from 1968 or earlier, or only that the engine family had to have been in production by 68? I did not notice anything saying that said casting numbers or date codes were required to be no newer than 1968.1968 was the first year for the 429-460 "385" series engine family, and they were only available as mild "big car" powerplants, until the 429 CJ/SCJ debuted in 1970 for the Torinos and Montego bodystyles, not counting the limited production Boss 429  69 & 70 Mustangs. Looking at the rules, it appears that many changes have been made to try to address some of Jon Kasses ingenuity and imagination. But he always seems to come up with something outside the box, doesn`t he? I think Kasse must have inherited the Smokey Yunick gene, when it comes to creative rulebook interpretation.
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1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
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Rory428

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #28 on: January 12, 2019, 03:07:00 AM »
A couple of other notes, the rules state maximum compression ratio of 10.5, considering that a 427 High Riser was higher than that, do you think that would eliminate the 1x4 High Riser 427, or could the compression be reduced? Or do you think the rules mean actual compression ratio, rather than factory advertised CR?
Also, since all the factory 426 "Street Hemi" and Race Hemis had 2 4 barrel carbs, and available cast single 4 barrel intake manifolds are required, does that exclude entering a 426 Hemi engine? Although the race Hemi came out in 64, with 12.1 compression and 2 Holleys, and the Street Hemi came with 10.5 CR and dual Carters, in 66, the only single 4 barrel 426 Hemi I am aware of, was a 65 NASCAR Hemi, which I believe was never offered in a production car.
As far as small blocks go, I would think the 340 MoPar would be pretty strong, although a 302 Z/28 engine could be pretty stout as well. maybe a 327/350HP too. Since the Boss 302 didn`t come out until 69, I don`t think a SB Ford will be a player.
1978 Fairmont,FE 427 with 428 crank, 4 speed Jerico best of 9.972@132.54MPH 1.29 60 foot
1985 Mustang HB 331 SB Ford, 4 speed Jerico, best of 10.29@128 MPH 1.40 60 foot.
1974 F350 race car hauler 390 NP435 4 speed
1959 Ford Meteor 2 dr sedan. a;; stock 332 2 barrel2 speed FordOMatic

Barry_R

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Re: 2019 Engine Masters Challenge rules posted.
« Reply #29 on: January 12, 2019, 10:57:55 AM »
Most of the rules are designed to be 'exclusionary or limiting" in nature, meaning they tell you what you cannot do.  Compression is a measured number - you cannot go over that value, but can build anything you wish below that even if the original engine was listed as being higher.  You can build an iron headed Hemi, but it cannot be 12:1, you can build a 429 but it cannot have the D0OE-R CJ head, etc.


I also agree that the traditional SB Chevy could be very competitive, and might be the combination to beat.  The SB Mopar would be tougher since the W2 and late model heads are illegal.  The SB Ford Windsor is not likely to be a player.  I feel like the FE and BB Mopar are in a similar spot.  The BB Chevy probably has a leg up on us.