Author Topic: 208 hp 352  (Read 21318 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

TimeWarpF100

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 700
    • View Profile
275 hp 352
« Reply #90 on: December 09, 2018, 09:09:09 PM »
275 hp 352
« Last Edit: December 11, 2018, 06:54:19 PM by TimeWarpF100 »

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #91 on: December 09, 2018, 09:29:10 PM »
Sounds like you have it all figured out.

JMO,

paulie

WerbyFord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #92 on: December 10, 2018, 03:42:31 PM »
1000 ft, 9.876

1/8 mile, 7.708 @ 99.19 mph

1/4 mile, 11.709 @ 123.36 mph.

My best run is 11.49 @ 124 mph, but I didn't see it on my GTECH.  I have a video of that run somewhere, though.

Anyway, my Cougar is likely 500 pounds lighter than your truck and I was using sticky tires.   It is stripped.  No carpet, no sun visors, no headlight doors, manual steering, manual brakes.  Battery in the trunk.  Aluminum heads, intake, water pump, etc.  Light forged aluminum 15" wheels.   


paulie

It also idles poorly and get horrible mpg.

Paulie,
Are you running open headers & no air cleaner or what on that run? Cold air to the carb?
Trying to get the Gonk to match. My 1st guess was like 116mph but I don't know your exact setup.

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #93 on: December 10, 2018, 04:15:52 PM »
Werby,

Not open headers, but very free flowing exhaust.  I have 2" Crites headers, 3-1/2" pipes, with 3-1/2" Dr Gas x-pipe, 3-1/2" Dynomax bullet mufflers and 3-1/2" turndowns before the axle.

No cold air intake.  I have a 14x3-1/2" K&N open element air cleaner.  The back of my hood is raised about 3/4" to maybe(?)facilitate airflow.  That more likely helps at stoplights in summer, though. I think the air was cold and dry on this day.  It was in December and maybe 40 degrees.

The best part on my engine are the cylinder heads, IMO.  They are just Edelbrocks, but the guy who ported them is a bit of a genius, in my opinion.  I am going to try to find him when I update my heads for a 427 size bore.  His machine shop closed a few years back.

paulie
« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 04:28:44 PM by plovett »

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #94 on: December 10, 2018, 04:16:36 PM »
Maybe I had a tail wind?  I have no idea about that.

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #95 on: December 10, 2018, 04:17:52 PM »
I can tell you I have never hooked up completely with my ET Streets.  I always have to work the throttle in first gear.  I think that is why the mph is high for the ET.

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #96 on: December 10, 2018, 04:25:02 PM »
Sorry for the hijack, TimeWarpF100!

paulie

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #97 on: December 10, 2018, 04:27:35 PM »
Also my headlight doors are off which creates an air space (scoop!)  :) into the engine bay.

WerbyFord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #98 on: December 10, 2018, 07:17:41 PM »
So to summarize the spirited competition of words, GTECH, timeslips of a different car, here is what has been posted.
Thanks to all for a fun thread so far.
Timeslips:
V6eco        432fe
ShinyRed   DogBlue
1.93          1.99     60ft
5.46          5.17     330ft
8.38          7.71     1/8 et
84.8          99.2     1/8 mph
10.88        9.88     1000 ft
13.04       11.71     ¼ et
104.6       123.4     ¼ mph

Gonkulator: (The Gonkulator assumes those 482 EFI issues are sorted out, and the same nominal weather for all, not a cold “mineshaft” day for the Cougar. I used 2800 stall for the 482 FE truck though we don't know the real value. 2400 stall was about .05 sec slower so it doesn't matter much except for being a lot slushier. I adjusted traction in the Cougar to match 60ft but the v6 truck 60ft was so close I left the Gonk alone. I also used a 5mph tailwind for ALL the Gonkulator runs below, to be consistent, and since it seemed to fit what was going on better. That adds about 1mph in trap speed.

Here is what the Gonkulator says about the two ENGINES we are comparing:

482fe w=4000 44t586 63p619
432fe w=3500 47t534 62p571 (edited to 432cid per post below instead of 470cid)

And here are the Gonkulator “timeslips” for Truck (T) and Cougar [C]:
T1               T2               T3               C1          C2
V6            V6            482FE        432FE  432FE
100-05     100-05     100-05       100-05     105-10
522r417r  436r334r  414r392r    423r433r  445r456r
Modern   Modern  ShinyRed   DogBlue  DogBlue
1.93          1.95          1.95          1.99          1.99     60ft
5.18          5.40          5.25          5.21          5.18     330ft
7.89          8.31          7.96          7.80          7.72     1/8 et
90.6          84.5          91.1          95.0          96.8     1/8 mph
10.53        11.13        10.62     10.31          10.19     1000 ft
12.28        13.02        12.31     11.90          11.74     ¼ et
111.8        104.2        112.5     121.2          123.9     ¼ mph

Observations:
1.   V6 Truck: The Gonkulator would have a really hard time getting that chassis-dyno 532 Torq 420 Power to line up with the 13.02 at 104.2mph timeslip.

2.   T1: Fiddling with the Gonk, I ginned up a V6 that showed 522 Torq 417 Power rear wheel (pretty close). The 4700-lb-down-the-track Truck Gonked to 12.28 at 111.8mph with that much under the hood.

3.   T2: I had to fiddle DOWN the rear wheel to about 436 Torq 334 Power to slow the Lil Red Truck down to 13.02 at 104.2.

4.   T3: If I then swap the 482 FE in and somehow the total weight goes down 700 lb to WT=4000, and somehow the EFI is able to infer the right A/F in spite of that close 106 LSA cam, the Gonk result is 12.31 at 112.5.

5.   That 12.31 at 112.5 would be a very close race compared to how the V6 truck SHOULD run [12.28 at 111.8], but would blow the doors off what the v6 truck HAS run (13.02 at 104.2). So TimeWarp, your 2 trucks should have a fun race. Reading all your comments I would STILL go smaller on the cam if it were me. You will still blow off that overrated computer-era v6 and the big smooth-cam 482 will behave more like your sensible 352 family truck.

6.   BENCH RACE SHOOTOUT T3 vs C1: And, I don’t think the Dog Blue Cougar is in sight either way. Comparing Run T3 and Run C1 (the bench race we originally agreed on but cant do because the Truck has not been timed at all), it’s not even close. The 482 FE truck at WT=4000 down the track Gonks to 12.31 at 112.5, whereas the 432 FE Cougar at WT=3500 Gonks to 11.90 at 121.2, using a 5mph tailwind for both.

7.   C2: The final C2 Gonkulator run is meant to duplicate what Paulie actually got on his Gtech in that mineshaft cold weather, 11.74 at 123.9mph with about 5% better air than the Bench Race Shootout run C1 and 5mph more tailwind.

This was like listening to the Beach Boys’ “Shut Down” in slow motion! Lots of memories.
I’m sure we’ve all won & lost to a car by a fraction of a fender.
Kinda like that – its like that final few seconds is lasting for days. 8)

« Last Edit: December 10, 2018, 11:41:03 PM by WerbyFord »

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #99 on: December 10, 2018, 08:03:11 PM »
Thanks, Werby!  Interesting stuff as always.  I have lots of runs in the 121-124 mph range.   But I don't often do it in the middle of summer.  Me and Smelly Cat like cold air!

One note.  The engine in the Cougar is a 432 inch FE. I am planning to have  470+ inch FE built, but I have not done so.

Thanks again,

paulie

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #100 on: December 10, 2018, 08:19:09 PM »
My only original intent, was to say that I thought the intake manifold and cam choice for the EFI 482 seemed off to me.  :)

WerbyFord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #101 on: December 10, 2018, 09:00:40 PM »
Thanks, Werby!  Interesting stuff as always.  I have lots of runs in the 121-124 mph range.   But I don't often do it in the middle of summer.  Me and Smelly Cat like cold air!

One note.  The engine in the Cougar is a 432 inch FE. I am planning to have  470+ inch FE built, but I have not done so.

Thanks again,

paulie

Ahah! The 470cid was all I found for you in the Gonk database.
Can you describe the 432? bore-stroke-CR-heads (same ported Edel?) intake-carb-cam?

It has to be pretty healthy but I just like to have accurate stuff in the files!

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #102 on: December 10, 2018, 09:24:36 PM »
Sure, and again sorry for the hijack.  Whew! Thank goodness I found an old post to copy and paste.

- 428 "C" block bored 0.025" over for a 4.155" bore. 432 cubic inches. JE pistons.

- half-fill of Hardblok.

- Factory cast 428 crank

- Factory CJ rods with ARP bolts

- Holley 850 double pumper with Proform main body. 80 jets all around.

- Blue Thunder dual plane intake port matched to heads. Plenum ported by me. 1" clover leaf spacer.

- Edelbrock #6005 heads with Ferrea 2.09/1.65" valves, 45 degree seat intake and exhaust. Intake ported pretty extensively. Exhaust just cleaned up. Flow @ 0.600" 293/206 cfm.

- Harland Sharp roller rockers

- JE forged pistons. 10.5:1 static compression.

- Solid flat tappet cam. 279/287 degrees @ 0.020". 252/260 degrees @ 0.050". 0.598"/0.598" gross lift. 108 degree lobe separation. 105 degree intake centerline. This is a Compcams custom grind. Intake lobe is a 279MA and the exhaust is a 287MA. Cam is nitrided.

- Lifters are Crower dumbbells with EDM holes.

- Crane 96879 springs. Spring pressure is about 150 lbs closed and 405 lbs. open. Manton pushrods. The pushrods have 0.093" thick walls? Titanium retainers.

- Milodon deep sump oil pan. Melling HV oil pump. oil passages opened up at oil pump mount. 0.090" restrictors to rockers. windage tray.

- Crites headers. 2" primary tubes. 3.5" collectors.

- MSD Pro Billet distributor. MSD 6AL box. MSD Blaster coil. 18 degrees initial timing. 36 degrees total.

- Broader Performance "700hp rated" C6 with reverse pattern manual valve body. 3600 rpm stall. 4.11 gears.

I had this same engine dyno'ed, but with a smaller cam and without the Proform main body on the carb, and without the plenum work in the intake manifold. The main body helped a lot and so did the cam. With a 240/246 solid flat tappet cam and a stock Holley 850 it made 517 hp at 6200 rpm and 522 ft/lbs at 4200 rpm. I think I am 25-30 hp more than that now. Not badass compared to all the expensive stuff, but fun in a relatively light street car. My best on street tires on street surfaces is 11.49 at 124 mph. That is spinning in 1st gear, and in and out of the throttle, according to a G-Tech g-meter. It turns about 7000 rpm now.

paulie

WerbyFord

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 335
    • View Profile
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #103 on: December 11, 2018, 12:11:50 AM »
Thanks, Werby!  Interesting stuff as always.  I have lots of runs in the 121-124 mph range.   But I don't often do it in the middle of summer.  Me and Smelly Cat like cold air!

One note.  The engine in the Cougar is a 432 inch FE. I am planning to have  470+ inch FE built, but I have not done so.

Thanks again,

paulie

OK see above modified to 432cid. That is one healthy engine for basically a 428cj short block!

I hope we provided TimeWarp some good goals & perspective.
It's a challenge taking on a heavy rig and the aero of a truck.

plovett

  • Guest
Re: Help with Camshaft selection for a 482 Dual Quad EFI Power Brakes
« Reply #104 on: December 11, 2018, 07:32:56 AM »
The Cougar might be lighter than you would think, too.  No radio, no sunvisors, no headliner, no console, no carpet, etc.  I sometimes take the back seat out, too.

paulie