Author Topic: Headers  (Read 1776 times)

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Blueoval77

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Headers
« on: June 10, 2018, 02:11:31 PM »
Im not new to the forum but have certainly been inactive for many years . Getting back into this has been interesting to say the least.
One of the areas that seems to have very scattered information is Headers .

I am putting together my 70R code Mach and I have opted for the Borgenson steering box on it (Always hated the ford system).
Has anyone on here done this with a set of headers with 2" primary's ?

The set of Dougs headers I have seems close but they of course are plagued with other issues such as auto pilot when the front wheels are hanging after launch . I saw a set of Crites headers on a mustang that was on Ebay but the pics were limited. I did notice however that they put a dip in the tubes near the drag link to keep the tie rods from falling out on them under acceleration.

So who makes the perfect 2" header for 428 mustangs that actually fit the car and perhaps clear a borgenson steering box ?
« Last Edit: June 11, 2018, 07:20:47 PM by Blueoval77 »

jayb

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Re: Headers
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2018, 01:25:42 PM »
"autopilot after launch" LOL!.  Hooker adjustable race headers do the same thing.  I modified a set of those to raise them for more ground clearance and also to clear the tie rods, but they are no longer close to equal length.  I don't know of a 2"+ header without that problem, but I have a set of Hedman's (not yet installed) where the issue might be minimal.  Won't know until they are installed.  REF headers might not have that issue, maybe give them a call...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Blueoval77

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Re: Headers
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2018, 03:14:54 PM »
Judging by your response you have experienced that unsettling feeling that you cannot turn the steering wheel for a good  60 to 80 feet out . If you combine that with your setup being off by just a little it can be a handful real fast.

The crites look decent and the price is right. I am shocked that more people havnt tried them.

plovett

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Re: Headers
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2018, 04:54:19 PM »
I have the Crites in my '67 Cougar.  I like them.  They hang pretty low.  I have the factory steering box.  Never had "header autopilot", but I also haven't done any wheelies.

paulie

Blueoval77

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Re: Headers
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2018, 07:07:03 PM »
Thanks Paulie !!! Do you have any pics of them on the car ?

Posi67

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Re: Headers
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2018, 09:26:16 PM »
I've done the odd wheelie and even though the tie rods do land on top of my 2 1/8" Hookers steering was never an issue. Not that you should be turning the wheel during a wheelie anyway. Turning off the track can be problematic if you smash the headers into the track though. Not sure anyone makes the "perfect" FE shock tower header. Always some sort of tradeoff.


plovett

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Re: Headers
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2018, 10:59:56 PM »
Thanks Paulie !!! Do you have any pics of them on the car ?

I'll look for some pics.  Or I can take some.   Give me a day or two.

paulie

TomP

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Re: Headers
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2018, 11:44:20 PM »
I had the 2 1/8" Hookers on a 67 Ranchero. I fixed the tie rod thing by turning the adjuster sleeves so he bolts are at the top so they can't catch. Of course that was after a couple scary and embarrassing incidents. One I swerved hard to miss a parked car door that flung open at the last second. It hooked the tie rod and almost steered me into oncoming traffic. The other was leaving a car show and getting on he throttle " a little" . It went sideways and when I tried to correct it hung the steering... while turned, and i went around in a huge half circle in the middle of the wide street. Non chalantlu parked like i'd meant to do that.  :-[

Blueoval77

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Re: Headers
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2018, 06:17:54 AM »
Thanks Paulie  , I would appreciate that. Beautiful pic of the 67 coming out and clearly a well setup car . I do love the Hookers and the Dougs but as the other poster mentioned , they can make bad things happen . I had my sleeves turned as well but on a small tire car that was not the most predictable it just wasnt fun .

The guy at Crites swears that theirs go on without drama to either the car or the tubes. They are nice sized tubes and they have dipped them in at the steering linkage to avoid the bind at launch.

I am setting this car up to be Bi-Polar so that with a change in wheels and tires and coil over setup it can go from tracks with turns to a straight line track so how much they hang is also a consideration. I started just to buy the stainless and start in on it myself but I just dont have the years of my life to lose cursing at those things for god knows how many hours.

Falcon67

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Re: Headers
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2018, 08:21:41 AM »
Sounds like you folks need to look for some tie rod sleeves that use lock nuts instead of the stock type units.

Like these or similar:
https://www.cjponyparts.com/tie-rod-sleeve-manual-steering-global-west-1967-1973/p/ES2003/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIsMKX2ZvO2wIVB7XACh3mswAnEAQYAyABEgJfVvD_BwE

mbrunson427

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Re: Headers
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2018, 12:08:09 PM »
Not totally on-topic, but might be helpful info and save you some trouble.....

I've seen a couple installs with those Borgeson units. They put quite a bit of force on the mounting points for the box. May need to reinforce the frame section in that area. I saw a video (maybe on this forum?) where a guy had installed one in his 68 Fairlane and when he turned the wheel you could noticeably see the box walking around a bit. Another friend had the same problem in his '67 Shelby.

machoneman

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Re: Headers
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2018, 12:39:53 PM »
I wonder why the wheelie crowd doesn't use limiters on the lower A-arm to prevent them from dropping so far that the tie rods get hung up on the headers?

Many way to accomplish this with looped stainless steel cables and links, a weldment to attach same with end clips, heck, even adjustable big rubber snubbers (think: Lakewood traction-bar sized snubbers) on the bottom of the upper A-arm. 
« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 12:42:19 PM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

Blueoval77

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Re: Headers
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2018, 01:04:29 PM »
Falcon , do you mean like these ?  https://drive.google.com/file/d/1843nix0n9wnv7gbBq838XUTNL5OcfuZM/view?usp=sharing  ?? Yeah that doesnt solve it and yes thats the car I am doing now . WHen you turn in either direction the tire rod pushes harder into the tube and would have to lift the spindle and wheel to actually turn. Hard to explain unless you lived it. Its not just hitting by a small amount and removing the sleeves would solve it. I ran similar sleeves on the car I had the motor in before.

Brunson , thanks for that but I am wondering if they didnt have some thin rails from rust inside or something. They bolt through the rail so it would have to be comprimised for that to happen , but I will absolutely look when this thing gets going.

machoneman , well its like this. THe front end of these old things need some travel to transfer weight . You cant set it low enough and then limit it because the tubes will plow ditches in the road . If you limit it from a decent ride height its about to hit the tubes.

These thigns have been used for years , even I did it for many years , I get it. I just dont want to deal with it anymore and if I am starting over I am going to do away with the things I disliked.





mike7570

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Re: Headers
« Reply #13 on: June 12, 2018, 02:57:58 PM »
On my '67 mustang I had a set of hookers like in the photo. No problem with tie rod but I did flatten them a bit.
The travel looks limited but on a stocker it's not suppose to use travel limiters. (Probably the Shelby drop and some type of bump stop)
I suppose they are just too low to use on any type of street car?



« Last Edit: June 12, 2018, 03:02:37 PM by mike7570 »