Author Topic: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?  (Read 11426 times)

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plovett

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #30 on: June 08, 2018, 07:35:34 AM »
More initial ignition timing will smooth out the idle.  And it will improve off-idle and low rpm characteristics, sometimes a ton.

Just make sure you don't get too much total timing, if you advance it.  You may need your distributor recurved.

wayne

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #31 on: June 08, 2018, 08:36:55 AM »
Lunati cams i think years ago they made a cheater for stock class racing  that is not the cj cam they have now.

CV355

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #32 on: June 08, 2018, 09:18:42 AM »
Lunati cams i think years ago they made a cheater for stock class racing  that is not the cj cam they have now.

What do you know about the old cheater cam?  I'm assuming mine is the 10503 but if there is something else referred to as the "cheater cam" I would be interested in knowing.   

1968galaxie

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2018, 10:04:25 AM »
Lunati did make an NHRA stock class "cheater" cam years ago.
I still have it in my 390.
I cannot find the cam card, but I believe it was over 250 degrees @ 0.050"
Big cam idle for sure. I had 3500 stall converter, nowhere near enough for this cam. 5.14:1 gearing helped.

Drew Pojedinec

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2018, 10:27:34 AM »
   Our California gas kills the o ring on the needle and seat assemblies. Start up and run dead rich . Change the o ring and back to normal. Yes this gas sucks!

Great point.
Most viton needle and seats seem to handle everything, I get bags of 008-009 Viton orings from Mcmaster carr for next to nothing, really solves a lot of the fuel leaking by issues.

CV355

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2018, 12:19:26 PM »
Lunati did make an NHRA stock class "cheater" cam years ago.
I still have it in my 390.
I cannot find the cam card, but I believe it was over 250 degrees @ 0.050"
Big cam idle for sure. I had 3500 stall converter, nowhere near enough for this cam. 5.14:1 gearing helped.

So, without tearing the motor down and taking measurements, how would I know if it's the 10503 or the "NHRA cheater" I see referred to here and there?

Meaning, any empirical evidence of one vs the other? 

1968galaxie

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2018, 01:07:46 PM »
You could put a degree wheel on and actually measure the valve events.
This doesnt require pulling the engine.
You would then know for sure what cam is in there.

C6AE

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2018, 04:30:27 PM »
That Lunati "CJ" copy cam is pretty mild, I have one and it idles "smooth" at about 700 rpm, with a 750 holley.

The "Cheater cam" note rang a bell from the past so I poked around a bit...
Maybe it is this one? I don't think it  will idle "smooth"!

https://www.fordfe.com/oem-cams-spec-ed-at-050-lift-t8065.html

(Kevin66)

"I've got an old Lunati 'Cheater' that goes about 248°Int/263°Exh @ .050", and a Cam Dynamics '-2' (stickshift)grind that's 252°Int/268°Exh. Lift on both runs about .003" to .009" below the .481"/.490" maximum."
"Since these also had to check legal at the 'gross' duration figures (304°/324° @ .002", you know that they were pretty radical looking lobes, leaving nothing to today's hydraulic roller designs. It's almost amazing they could work the way they did, turning 6,300-6,500 RPM with a whopping 296 lbs of spring pressure!"

1968galaxie

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #38 on: June 09, 2018, 09:15:25 AM »
Thank you C6AE!

That is the camshaft in my 390. Certainly not mild, and not a lot of idle vacuum.
Does run well above 4000 rpm.

wayne

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #39 on: June 10, 2018, 09:25:52 AM »
I will see if i can find an old lunati catalog on that cam it will check like  a stock one but the lobes look like a roller. Lunati got its start by doing cheater cams Joe was good at getting the most from stock grinds.

WerbyFord

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #40 on: June 10, 2018, 11:11:29 AM »
That Lunati "CJ" copy cam is pretty mild, I have one and it idles "smooth" at about 700 rpm, with a 750 holley.

The "Cheater cam" note rang a bell from the past so I poked around a bit...
Maybe it is this one? I don't think it  will idle "smooth"!

https://www.fordfe.com/oem-cams-spec-ed-at-050-lift-t8065.html

(Kevin66)

"I've got an old Lunati 'Cheater' that goes about 248°Int/263°Exh @ .050", and a Cam Dynamics '-2' (stickshift)grind that's 252°Int/268°Exh. Lift on both runs about .003" to .009" below the .481"/.490" maximum."
"Since these also had to check legal at the 'gross' duration figures (304°/324° @ .002", you know that they were pretty radical looking lobes, leaving nothing to today's hydraulic roller designs. It's almost amazing they could work the way they did, turning 6,300-6,500 RPM with a whopping 296 lbs of spring pressure!"

C6AE
Let me add my thanks as well.
For a couple years now I have been revisiting the 1960s "stock class" NHRA era, and of course cheater cams is always a big factor. It is hard to find "official" specs on a "cheater" cam, the name kinda says it all.
But, I do find in the Gonkulator that I typically have to guess 20-40 degrees of "added" duration at .050 for any hope of matching the trap speeds that the top NHRA stockers actually turned in. This of course is after adding every other legal prep I can think of. It is good to see some confirmation as to how big these cheater cams actually were. 8)

1968galaxie

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #41 on: June 10, 2018, 02:29:17 PM »
Crane also made NHRA stock class cams. I had one before the Lunati cam.
Part number: 340491  Grind No:  CC-C60Z-B8
The lobes certainly have dwell on the top.

No records of what the duration numbers were on that one - I assume 108 LSA from grind number.

Cheers

wayne

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Re: Best Street Cam/TC/Gear Combo for 428?
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2018, 10:22:08 AM »
So far i have not found a old catalog i will look some more.  I used to sell lunati parts but dont know how much stuff i still have left