Starting to understand why building engines may be best left to the professional

[Tobbemek]

I just like it when god people like you don't see the hindrance but the possibility to solve problems that is new for  your experience and just get on with it. Ave-some work i must say.   I don't know if my 27 year old son remember it but when we was watching the Macahans on TV when he was  about 8 or 10 he was very thoughtful about the Seb Macahans " mountainmens " codex      don't quit don't lie and don't be sorry.
Think of what a joy and pleasure it will be driving that truck when you  get it ready knowing every thing inside out and that you fixed it your self

[Yellow Truck]

I quite agree - nothing like doing something for the first time (even though I have to do it two or three times). I love this forum because people here genuinely want more people to build FEs.

Got it  put back together and the rockers on, but night fell before I could set up the pre-load. I'll try and get that before it rains tomorrow. Might be able to get a rip in before the weather changes. After that it is rain and snow until the weekend.

Winter comes early here.

[My427stang]

I quite agree - nothing like doing something for the first time (even though I have to do it two or three times). I love this forum because people here genuinely want more people to build FEs.

Got it  put back together and the rockers on, but night fell before I could set up the pre-load. I'll try and get that before it rains tomorrow. Might be able to get a rip in before the weather changes. After that it is rain and snow until the weekend.

Winter comes early here.

Be very careful with preload, not that it is that critical, nor is it that difficult, but take the same care in setting it up as you did with the other stuff.

FYI - We all think you will need to go into that carb before it is right, but firing it, checking vacuum,. getting the distributor set up correctly, all need to be done first.  It's somewhere in this run, but how is your distributor set up?  There is a range of good enough, but if this was my truck assuming an MSD, I would likely have an 18 bushing, 16 initial, and all in by 2800 or so.  The reason i bring that up is that with some vacuum now, that should be a "set and forget" timing, then we can move to the carb

[Yellow Truck]

Ross - I confirmed the timing marks on the balancer are retarded by 1-2 degrees. Based on that I'd say I have been running 18 degrees advanced but there has been a little daily wobble of a couple of degrees that I can't explain. I am still waiting for Faron Rhoads to deliver my new one. When I checked the timing while revving the engine to 3,500 all the timing was in by 2,900.

I am getting quite experienced with the pre-load, may have actually learned how to do it by now. I left it yesterday because I didn't want to hurry with the light dimming.

If I do fire it today (weather is a factor) I'll only be taking it for a short run to gather data for the next phase. With a little luck the new distributor will show up soon, and after I run it I'll be back for some direction on where to start with the carb - I am expecting to pull it off and get into it.

[My427stang]

If I do fire it today (weather is a factor) I'll only be taking it for a short run to gather data for the next phase. With a little luck the new distributor will show up soon, and after I run it I'll be back for some direction on where to start with the carb - I am expecting to pull it off and get into it.

I really like how you put this. 

1 - gathering data for the next phase (not determining what that is yet
2 - Running it with the new distributor to gather more info
3 - Preparing to go inside the carb (you will have to, but prepping the ignition first is critical)

I have to say, a small part of me (and others) wants to go in the carb as you wait for the distributor, but firing as is will reduce variables and show you the change of the cam timing only, so good summary, let's stay the course

[Drew Pojedinec]

Meh, just mail the carb to one of us with taps and drill bits.
I even have an engine standing by to test it. 

[Yellow Truck]

Having a rain delay. I got the basics - oil, coolant, brackets, pulleys, belts and plugs in but it began raining so I took a break and walked my dogs.

I didn't get the plug wires on, wanted to get my tools put away before they got wet. While walking the dogs it occurred to me that I have to retard the ignition timing 8 degrees since it was set with the cam in the old position. Given that it was around 18-20 to start I think that was a good catch.

I may get a chance to put the wires on, retard the ignition a bit, and fire it today, but in any case it doesn't really change my plan:


• Fire it and get it warm and run it through some standard tests with the O2 sensor in place (idle, acceleration from stop, cruise, and cruise to WOT) and post the feedback here.
• Depending on what comes first - good weather or the new dizzy - I'll either pull the carb or replace the dizzy, but not both. The problem with the old distributor is that it is drifting from start to start, but it seems to work.
• I will look for guidance on the carb once I post the feedback, but the dizzy is simple, put it on with a known carb/cam combo and get the ignition timing where it needs to be

This may start today or Saturday as the weather for the weekend is expected to be good.

[Yellow Truck]

Meh, just mail the carb to one of us with taps and drill bits.
I even have an engine standing by to test it. 

Where would the fun be in that?

[Drew Pojedinec]

Hard to explain

[Tobbemek]

Doing good, just don't forget to take vacuum readings along with the A/Fr O2 sensor readings in your test driving when you get to that point

[Yellow Truck]

Tobbemek - that is a good suggestion. I'll have to think about how to do it. I only have an under-hood set up to check vacuum.

On the lifter pre-load, I continue to have a couple of lifters that are VERY tight. The engine was quite cold, I don't think it makes a big difference but I mention it in case you all know better.

I had the same three that were super tight. Most took between 1/16 and 5/16s of a turn to take out any free movement. Where there was some free movement to take up, the rockers all still had some movement depressing the lifter after the free movement was taken out, and some movement when I did the final turn down before locking them in.

Three of them took zero turns before I turned the adjusters down one full turn. In the three that had no additional adjustment I noticed the valves dropping when I put the one turn on them.

This time I took notes so I can check again if I have problems - see if it is the same ones each time. Does this sound normal. The hydraulic lifters are Morels.

[blykins]

What do you mean by the lifters are tight?  Tight in the bores?

A couple of points....

Make sure that the "free movement" that you're taking up is indeed free movement...i.e. the pushrod not making contact with anything.  A lot of guys will tell you to go by how the pushrod spins, but that's a false sense of security.  I prefer to move the pushrod up and down axially while slowly tightening the adjuster, until you feel all the slack being taken out.  You have to be really careful with your feel here, because if you're not careful, you can be depressing the plunger on an empty lifter. 

A cold engine with a cast iron block and aluminum heads will not affect the running preload enough to matter.  It will be about .006" after it's all said and done.

Lifters will do silly things, depending on whether or not the oil has drained out of them.   If the oil has drained out, then the plunger will be loosey-goosey in the lifter and you will be able to move it freely.  If the oil has not drained out, then it will be like....well....trying to compress/move oil when you run the valves.  It's very common to see the valve drop.  If you have ran the valves correctly, the valve will slowly close as the spring pressure pushes the oil down in the lifter.

If you can push the plunger down in the lifter immediately after running the engine (when the lifter is primed and the oil should be pushing back up at you), or the lifter is ticking, then you have a bad lifter. 

[Yellow Truck]

Brent - sorry for being unclear. I can't tell if it is tight in the bore, but when we dropped them in they moved easily - I don't imagine that has changed. What I meant is tight to the rocker. You and a few others here have schooled me on just taking out the up and down movement, and not to pay attention to how easily they rotate. I have 3 pushrods with absolutely NO up and down movement with the adjustment fully backed off.

I did buy a cheap borescope and checked that the pushrods are centered on the lifters. When fully backed off all three that are tight to the rocker will rotate easily but after the smallest turn down the pushrods no longer rotate at all. These three pushrods have no up and down movement, and when I try to rock the rocker with the allen key while the screws are fully backed out, they don't move at all. All the others show at least a tiny bit of up and down movement free of the lifter, and 1/16 turn removes it. A couple took 1/4 to just more than 1/4 to take out the free movement, but the lifters are easy to compress with a finger on the rocker even after the full adjustment.

At this point the oil has been draining out of the heads for a couple of weeks. When I get it hot I'll pull a rocker and check how they feel hot and with oil in the lifters.

[My427stang]

Are you adjusting each rocker with the cam on its base circle for each individual valve?

I find it hard to believe that at zero lift and the adjuster backed all the way out that you have zero vertical clearance. 

[scott foxwell]

Brent - sorry for being unclear. I can't tell if it is tight in the bore, but when we dropped them in they moved easily - I don't imagine that has changed. What I meant is tight to the rocker. You and a few others here have schooled me on just taking out the up and down movement, and not to pay attention to how easily they rotate. I have 3 pushrods with absolutely NO up and down movement with the adjustment fully backed off.

I did buy a cheap borescope and checked that the pushrods are centered on the lifters. When fully backed off all three that are tight to the rocker will rotate easily but after the smallest turn down the pushrods no longer rotate at all. These three pushrods have no up and down movement, and when I try to rock the rocker with the allen key while the screws are fully backed out, they don't move at all. All the others show at least a tiny bit of up and down movement free of the lifter, and 1/16 turn removes it. A couple took 1/4 to just more than 1/4 to take out the free movement, but the lifters are easy to compress with a finger on the rocker even after the full adjustment.

At this point the oil has been draining out of the heads for a couple of weeks. When I get it hot I'll pull a rocker and check how they feel hot and with oil in the lifters.

Something not right.
Make sure lifter is on base circle...zero lift. Easiest way to do this is the EOIC method. Watch the lifter if you can. When the exhaust valve starts to open, adjust the intake. Back the adjuster all the way off and start from scratch. Sounds like you have good info on how to tell when there is zero lash. The "spin" method can be very misleading. Tighten the adjuster slowly till there is zero lash. Move the rocker up and down while you're tightening but use a light touch with your fingertips because an empty lifter can be easily compressed. You want to keep wiggling up and down gently till all the lash is gone. When you reach zero lash, give it whatever preload you've decided on. I'd recommend 3/4 turn. when done, rotate the crankshaft 90*, move to the next cylinder in the firing order watching the lifter if you can. When the ex starts to open, stop turning the crank and repeat. When done, rotate the crank another 90* to the next cylinder in the firing order, and so on. When you get back to no. 1, rotate the engine till the intake valve starts to close, or when the lifter goes over the nose of the cam and starts back down. Usually about half way. Now you can adjust the exhaust lifter preload. Same thing...when done with no. 1, rotate the crank 90* to the next cylinder in the firing order and repeat. When you're done, all the adjusters should be in the same place, same amount of threads exposed, everything uniform. Some lifters may still have oil in them and feel "harder" than others when setting the preload. That's normal. They have oil in them and will bleed down. Take your time.