Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...

[jayb]

So what kind of body would one fit into without tearing out the shock towers?

Galaxies, Starliners, pickups, and 55-57 Thunderbirds to name a few.  Any Mustang, Falcon, Fairlane, or Torino is going to require shock tower surgery to make the engine fit.

[jayb]

Deep swallow and hmmmmm.
That would really make me think about the DOHC I have for my non shock tower '66 Stang.
When before I could only dream.
Damn you Jay Brown

LOL!  Sorry Marc...

[cjshaker]

I don't really get the "I could make more power with a _____ for less money" mentality. We can all make more power with a 385 series or by throwing a turbo or supercharger on a Mod motor and be less than a comparable FE, but that's not why we belong to this forum. At least not for me. My 427 is "only" making 500hp and its on the edge of being streetable. I could blow that away with a mild 385. Heck, I could have 4 385s for the price of my 2 427s and make more power, but for me it's an FE or nothing

Edit: Having big horsepower numbers just comes down to bragging rights. I'm pretty sure I could smoke the tires just as easily with my 500hp as somebody could with a 700-800hp 385, but it wouldn't be nearly as cool with the latter

[ScotiaFE]

Jay this is like saying they are going to drop the price of goof balls.
We're addicts man!
Hell yes I want a cheap set of goof balls.

[Lenz]

Jay this like saying they are going to drop the price of goof balls.
We're addicts man!
Hell yes I want a cheap set of goof balls.

More evidence that we've all come to the right place .  The addict part is spot on for me (and others like Doug above I'm sure).  I had to have me some FE power and what really got me going was the more affordable stuff that you just couldn't get in years past.  For me, Survival supplied what I needed with a price I could justify in the end, all while significantly ramping up the performance.

There's no doubt that if SOHC parts got "affordable enough" I would be drawn into that web.  To date I've never even considered it due to cost alone.  Guess in the end we've all got a magic number on cost versus bang for the buck.

Tough decision for you Jay, as getting costs down would necessarily include moving some volume, you'd need to be able to gauge commitment to buy as with your intake adapter.  This whole deal is just so much bigger..........

[jayb]

Btw, I may have a chance at an ex-Earl Wade all-iron Cammer with low hours. It was apparently in a street car for a short time. How much do you think that would be worth if in the advertised condition?

Bruce

Bruce, there are people out there who will pay a lot of money for the original Ford parts.  If that engine is complete, and running, its worth at least $25K, and probably more.

[BH107]

It looks from the poll results in the previous post that the high cost is the major barrier to entry, although that may not be the only barrier.  So here's a question:  What if you could buy ALL the parts necessary to build an SOHC for $15K?  Still too expensive, or getting to the point where it may be do-able?

Here is what I'm thinking.  Start with a run of the mill 390 block, bored .030 or .040 over.  Cross bolt it if you want to make more than 600 HP.  Add a stroker crank kit, like the ones available from Barry or Doug, but with SOHC pistons.  Probably adds $300 to $400 to the price of the kit.  The 390 cylinder bores would have to be notched for the intake valve to clear, but if you ran 2.25" intakes it would be less problematic than with the 2.300" intakes.  By the way, a good friend of mine is running an SOHC with a 390 block right now, so I know it can be done.  Then, the trick is just to get the SOHC specific parts down to a reasonable price.

I'm asking about this because one of the manufacturers of SOHC parts has offered to sell me the tooling to build them.  Not exactly a project I was looking to take on, but I wanted to at least gauge some interest from the FE community.  Having some experience under my belt now with casting up the intake adapters and the timing covers, doing all the SOHC stuff doesn't look that far out of reach.  I have a pretty good local casting outfit, and an excellent local pattern maker that I could use to modify the patterns if necessary.  I could do the machining myself, at least for the most part, to bring the price of the parts down.  For example, I think I could sell a pair of the heads for $3000, not $5500 like they are going for now.  Probably sell the intake manifold for $750, the front cover for $500, etc.  I would want to cast non-adjustable ductile iron rockers like the original factory ones to keep the cost down, which would be something new but definitely do-able.  I'd go with Comp billet cams and a good timing chain set with a .250" pin roller chain.

I've added up all the parts required to build such a motor, from carbs to pan, and including gaskets, rings, and bearings, and I think the total parts cost would come in right around $15K.  About $10K of that is SOHC specific, and the remaining $5K is the short block and dual carbs.  Additional expenses would be any machining costs and assembly costs if you had someone else build it for you.

This may never happen (and probably won't), but if it did, would the reduced price make building one of these engines substantially more attractive?

Interesting idea, and I think it would help some, but once you lower that cost barrier I think more of the other reasons to not build would come up.

It does help that you don't have big overhead working out of your place, but would you have to bring in more machines to handle that kind of work load? What would the minimum number of castings be from your foundry at the prices you worked up?

I would also think that most would just step up to an aftermarket 427 block if they were going down that road. By the time you had all of the machine work done on a 390 block, plus crossbolting it and drilling it for SOHC oiling stepping up to a new 427 block wouln't be that much more money.

This isn't the first time this has been thought of or attempted either, and it ended in bankrupsy for at least one of the previous businesses after he took alot of money from alot of people, and I'm not even referring to your "friend" who is still trying. Then again you doing it right would be nice after all of your previous problems.

[Drew Pojedinec]

So what kind of body would one fit into without tearing out the shock towers?

Galaxies, Starliners, pickups, and 55-57 Thunderbirds to name a few.  Any Mustang, Falcon, Fairlane, or Torino is going to require shock tower surgery to make the engine fit.

Dammit Jay...... now you are making me want a pickup truck with a SOHC.

[RJP]

Hummm....interesting question. But even at 15-20 grand for a 390/428 based Cammer is still more than I can justify at this stage in my life. I am wanting to retire in the next year or two and frivolously spending, say $20K on a car that sits in my shop for 359 days a year and only rolled out for a evening at the local hotrod get together or for that one annual carshow road trip my wife and I take every year I still can not justify the cost. The eye appeal is second to none even while parked next to the typical shoebox Chevy with a 6-71 sticking out of the hood...The Cammer wins hands down, no doubt.  As I said in my other post spending that kind of $$$ just to impress the crowd that doesn't know [or care] the difference between my 60 Starliner and a Pontiac Bonneville, huge set of cam covers that say "Ford SOHC" is not going to mean much to them anyway except for the usual stupid comments like "...didn't Pontiac have a OHC too?" or "What does "SOHC" mean?" As for the horsepower, my drag racing days are long gone so the hp is more or less a non issue and the more hp I have is just too tempting to use it on the street. If...and that is a big IF I was tempted to build a Cammer, I wouldn't bother with a 390 or 428 block I would use one of the 427s I have now...but I would wait until the next morning for the final decision when I sobered up.   Jay, If the cost of the rights, patterns, equipment, etc is cheap enough I think it would be a good long term investment as the Cammer would appeal to the pre-48 hotrod crowd looking for something different to put in their fenderless 32 or some sort of street "altered" hooptie. The 60s Galaxie application is a given but I think there is a wider appeal to the Cammer than just Galaxies, Fairlanes and Mustangs and don't overlook the hotboat crowd. 

[My427stang]

I don't want to sound like a naysayer, but 600 hp probably wouldn't sell for me for that cost.  It'd have to be screaming to take advantage of the port cross section and runner volume (I think, correct me if I am wrong which would drive me to more money in the block anyway) unless there is a modified small runner head.  Even then though it's just for looks, a pro-port 445 would  do 600 hp cheaper and the whole curve would be nicer.

Now, if we could to a real big stroke in the 390 block, maybe with 481 inches, it may start leaning that way, but it would drive costs up  and probably still require an investment in the block

That being said Jay, if someone wants the experience of a cammer, I think it would be great.  The 445 could be Phase 1 and allow a ticket to entry with a big shortblock build later

[sumfoo1]

So what kind of body would one fit into without tearing out the shock towers?

Galaxies, Starliners, pickups, and 55-57 Thunderbirds to name a few.  Any Mustang, Falcon, Fairlane, or Torino is going to require shock tower surgery to make the engine fit.

How many early birders do you think i'd tick off by ditching the 312 for a cammer? in my '57?

[Heo]

I don't really get the "I could make more power with a _____ for less money" mentality. We can all make more power with a 385 series or by throwing a turbo or supercharger on a Mod motor and be less than a comparable FE, but that's not why we belong to this forum. At least not for me. My 427 is "only" making 500hp and its on the edge of being streetable. I could blow that away with a mild 385. Heck, I could have 4 385s for the price of my 2 427s and make more power, but for me it's an FE or nothing

Edit: Having big horsepower numbers just comes down to bragging rights. I'm pretty sure I could smoke the tires just as easily with my 500hp as somebody could with a 700-800hp 385, but it wouldn't be nearly as cool with the latter

Thats exactly what im say. I dont have 50 year old car with even older engine to make
big hp numbers cheap .Its beacuse i want to have it. and thats why im on this forum

[KMcCullah]

I'd do a cammer kit for 10k. What FE guy hasn't ever thought about owning the king of all FE's? Plus I think it would force some of the other SOHC parts sellers to drop their prices to compete for sales. 

[sumfoo1]

If you have big hp numbers and don't use it for anything... then what  is the point?

Smoking the tires is a silly reason to have 500hp you could do that with 300.

But if you autoX, Drag race, road race etc that's where bang for the buck starts to matter...
And i guess those are bragging rights but if you don't compete whats the fun?

I have an FE because i like FEs  sometimes i wish i went the 385 route... but to be honest the only other engines i really like are the mod motors.

Also Deep skirt "y" blocks with interesting top ends. And for that matter... i own a y block too... i don't really love anything but the sound it makes but the sound is...  instant on a bad day.

[mike7570]

No matter what you build you just can't beat the look of a SOHC motor!
http://i435.photobucket.com/albums/qq80/mike7570/PICT0034-1.jpg