Author Topic: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...  (Read 35522 times)

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jayb

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Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« on: September 18, 2014, 10:05:12 PM »
It looks from the poll results in the previous post that the high cost is the major barrier to entry, although that may not be the only barrier.  So here's a question:  What if you could buy ALL the parts necessary to build an SOHC for $15K?  Still too expensive, or getting to the point where it may be do-able?

Here is what I'm thinking.  Start with a run of the mill 390 block, bored .030 or .040 over.  Cross bolt it if you want to make more than 600 HP.  Add a stroker crank kit, like the ones available from Barry or Doug, but with SOHC pistons.  Probably adds $300 to $400 to the price of the kit.  The 390 cylinder bores would have to be notched for the intake valve to clear, but if you ran 2.25" intakes it would be less problematic than with the 2.300" intakes.  By the way, a good friend of mine is running an SOHC with a 390 block right now, so I know it can be done.  Then, the trick is just to get the SOHC specific parts down to a reasonable price.

I'm asking about this because one of the manufacturers of SOHC parts has offered to sell me the tooling to build them.  Not exactly a project I was looking to take on, but I wanted to at least gauge some interest from the FE community.  Having some experience under my belt now with casting up the intake adapters and the timing covers, doing all the SOHC stuff doesn't look that far out of reach.  I have a pretty good local casting outfit, and an excellent local pattern maker that I could use to modify the patterns if necessary.  I could do the machining myself, at least for the most part, to bring the price of the parts down.  For example, I think I could sell a pair of the heads for $3000, not $5500 like they are going for now.  Probably sell the intake manifold for $750, the front cover for $500, etc.  I would want to cast non-adjustable ductile iron rockers like the original factory ones to keep the cost down, which would be something new but definitely do-able.  I'd go with Comp billet cams and a good timing chain set with a .250" pin roller chain.

I've added up all the parts required to build such a motor, from carbs to pan, and including gaskets, rings, and bearings, and I think the total parts cost would come in right around $15K.  About $10K of that is SOHC specific, and the remaining $5K is the short block and dual carbs.  Additional expenses would be any machining costs and assembly costs if you had someone else build it for you.

This may never happen (and probably won't), but if it did, would the reduced price make building one of these engines substantially more attractive? 
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Joe-JDC

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #1 on: September 18, 2014, 11:12:57 PM »
I will step in again, and say the size of the engine is a barrier for me, and that cost does not seem   realistic for you to make a profit.  Most folks would step up to a new 427 block, and that would add another $3500 or more to the package, and you are still knocking on $20,000 minimum.  Headers, distributor, engine bay prep, shocks, etc., etc.  I still would not buy because of the parts availability, and size of the engine.  Too many unknowns at this time to commit to such a project.  JMO, Joe-JDC.
Joe-JDC '70GT-500

fastback 427

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #2 on: September 19, 2014, 12:22:24 AM »
Ten grand for a sohc kit would be a great deal. I've got over twelve in my medium riser. That would open the door for many more people with smaller budgets. I would find a car to cut up to fit a sohc. I'm not sure who's stuff your looking at, but having a head with big air flow numbers so it could keep up with the big chief or thor bbf heads would make them more attractive. Maybe a smaller runner version for the 390 block crowd then a CNC race version? Also a list like your  Cleveland adapters to keep people aware of parts availability. I'm think in each kit would also have to come with new Jay Brown sohc instruction manual and complimentary video!
Jaime
67 fastback 427 center oiler 428 crank Dove aluminum
top end toploader
67 fairlane gta cross bolted 12:1 390 Dove aluminum top end c6 3600 stall
65 falcon straight axle project
67 mustang coupe project
76 f350 dually 390 mirror 105 4bbl 4spd
74 f100 xlt 390 c6 factory ac

cjshaker

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #3 on: September 19, 2014, 12:24:18 AM »
While that price definitely puts a new light on it (to me anyway), the only problem with that scenario is that it sounds like it would be a pretty run-of-the-mill street version, or in other words, an SOHC just for the sake of being an SOHC. Knowing myself, I'd want to build it more to the upper end for performance and that would add to the cost fairly significantly. Not having experience in building one, that's just going on your builds with all the extra little steps and higher end parts in the valvetrain and chain work to get the engine to live and perform well at the 7000rpm range.

But for people just wanting an SOHC for the look, to put in their non-shock towered car or street rod, that sounds like it would be an opportunity they might not normally be able to swing.
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

62f100

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #4 on: September 19, 2014, 12:39:37 AM »
First of all I love the look of my FE in my 62 f100,but for 15k I could build some real wild horsepower mod motors to play with. I guess I depends if you are going for the unique look or horsepower. thinking about it for me both look & power that the sohc delivers isn't enough to justify the price.  with the mod motors being so plentiful in the junkyard for a reasonable price & Chinese turbos being cheap for decent quality I could build a few motors & blow them up with out coming near the 15k. now for around half the price I would be saving already to buy.   
62f100-352fe ,efi by megasquirt, cop,91 towncar frame&suspension.

Tommy-T

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #5 on: September 19, 2014, 12:59:59 AM »
10K for the Cammer specific stuff is a great deal. The Boss 9 kit is advertised in the new Hot Rod for $9500 and you get just the Boss specific stuff too.

Same difference. Pick your poison.

I like the Boss...but it'd just look wrong in my Thunderbird.

Heo

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #6 on: September 19, 2014, 01:58:37 AM »
Interesting...It my never hapend but .
For a long time i have wanted a SOHC.
But finding one here in Sweden was
impossible.And in recent years when
 the aftermarket SOHC parts was
availabel.
There was so much rumors about leaking
castings, reliabiliti issues,and of cause
people paying for SOHC parts they never got

If there were SOHC specific parts availibel for
10k from a reliabel source.  That stood behind
there product and you could run it on the street
with no issues. I would seriously consider buying
a kit
If cheap horsepower was my goal i would take a
totaly different route
I can spend 10 k on other engines and get more hp
but i can spend the same on a flathead Ford and get
250 hp and it would selfdestruct



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

sumfoo1

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #7 on: September 19, 2014, 06:24:28 AM »
I have 24 in my 511... i would convert in a second for 10k.

My427stang

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #8 on: September 19, 2014, 07:06:42 AM »
Assuming we could get more cid out of a 390 block than 445, I may do it at that price. However if stroke is held to only 445 cubes for that price, I think money would be better spent elsewhere
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

machoneman

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #9 on: September 19, 2014, 07:15:25 AM »
I think the vast majority of Cammers out there are for show vehicles and easy-on-the-gas streeters where the Wow value is high.

Jay seem to one of the few who actually campaigns a drag strip runner and of course is interested in maximizing the potential of this unique engine. I'll also venture that nostalgia racers with a old funny car, dragster or gas powered SS or early FX cars are the primary users of the SOHC in competition (just for fun stuff btw) or even for nitro cacklefest shows. Would like to see someone do a Bach and Gould nitro car!

http://www.dragracingonline.com/special/bachgould_1.html

Seems too that a 32 Deuce or similar roadster is a regular recipient of the engine as it is displayed w/o a hood, maximizing the 'look' of this great looking piece  and isn't hindered by shock towers or limited header room.  Here a 390 CID SOHC would fit right in.   
« Last Edit: September 19, 2014, 07:17:44 AM by machoneman »
Bob Maag

sumfoo1

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #10 on: September 19, 2014, 07:26:34 AM »
That's because if you have a 40,000 engine most people worry about breaking it.

jayb

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #11 on: September 19, 2014, 08:02:49 AM »
I think you could build a 445", 600 HP SOHC pretty easily, and that's all the horsepower that a lot of people would want anyway.  Factory HP was 616, after all.  Going to a 427 block would add at least $4K to the price tag, but allow you to get into the 750 HP range pretty easily.

I want to make one comment about horsepower per dollar.  With nitrous, superchargers, and turbos available anybody can build 1000 HP in a 60's vintage V8 engine without too much trouble.  Those parts cost the same for any engine, and when you get up into the stratosphere of power levels like that, many of the bottom end components cost about the same for any engine too.  My point is that if you are only interested in making big power you can do that as easily with an FE as with most engines, and the cost won't be that much different.  Yes, you can make more power with a 385 series engine, and you will save some money over an FE on the block, heads, and maybe the crank, but not much else.  And at those power levels I for one don't care so much about the difference in power production.  My supercharged 489" FE made over 1200 HP and didn't cost that much more than building an equivalent 385 series engine.  And getting the power to the ground was the real problem at that horsepower level.

To me the cost issue for FEs comes in when building a strong engine in the 600-800 horsepower range that is naturally aspirated.  That's where our FEs get "Freakin' Expensive" compared to a lot of other engines.  Most people building SOHCs are going to fall in that horsepower range, and the SOHCs are then REALLY expensive on a horsepower per dollar basis.  My thinking when giving consideration to this project was to get that cost down to a little more reasonable level, although in any case the SOHC is still going to be a fairly expensive engine compared to a pushrod motor.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

gtxpress

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #12 on: September 19, 2014, 08:07:44 AM »
So what kind of body would one fit into without tearing out the shock towers?

BruceS

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #13 on: September 19, 2014, 08:29:34 AM »
Jay,
For 15k I would do it, and having someone such as yourself be the source for parts would be even better.  I would probably begin with the lower power-level version and work my way up...

Btw, I may have a chance at an ex-Earl Wade all-iron Cammer with low hours. It was apparently in a street car for a short time. How much do you think that would be worth if in the advertised condition?

Great subject! I've really enjoyed this thread.

Bruce
66 Fairlane 500, 347-4V SB stroker, C4
63 Galaxie 500 fastback, 482 SO 4V, Cruise-O-Matic

turbohunter

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Re: Here's a follow-on question about building an SOHC...
« Reply #14 on: September 19, 2014, 08:42:07 AM »
Deep swallow and hmmmmm.
That would really make me think about the DOHC I have for my non shock tower '66 Stang.
When before I could only dream.
Damn you Jay Brown :)
Marc
'61 F100 292Y
'66 Mustang Injected 428
'66 Q code Country Squire wagon