Author Topic: 577 SOHC Post Mortem  (Read 116393 times)

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jmlay

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #75 on: September 25, 2014, 06:59:29 AM »
Mike

cdmbill2

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #76 on: October 10, 2014, 10:07:05 PM »
I may have missed this; were the rods magged before each subsequent build?  That is a standard procedure with the builds I do with Dougan's. That process caught radial cracks in a billet Scat crank, which lead to the Bryant that is in the 598" now. The same process led us to upgrade to Oliver's when we were shooting for more than 900 for a Drag Week capable rotating assembly.

We learn more very year and sometimes it is the hard way. Compared to the fast guys, those of us running the small tire N/A classes toil in obscurity, but its still a challenge.

Barry_R

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #77 on: October 11, 2014, 06:10:59 AM »
Impossible to say on cost because the cracks can be anywhere from minor to Frankenstein.  But welder fees of a few hundred are just the start.  You have to assume that you are going to remachine everything.  Its a thousand dollar deal any way you shake it - but considering the block costs five or six times that much...

jayb

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #78 on: October 11, 2014, 10:37:47 AM »
Bill, the rods were not magged between builds.  Obviously, in hindsight I should have done that.  The rods were purchased in 2008, and were in a few different iterations of the engine, the first of which used Dove heads (that leaked) and the first pass on the T&D rockers (which did not have sufficient clearance between the rocker bushing and shaft, and seized on the shafts).  Second iteration went to the high port heads and properly sized bushings in the T&Ds, and that was the engine that made 930 HP and won the Modified class at Drag Week in 2009.  Third iteration was an upgrade to the distributorless ignition system to make a little more power, but then the engine leaked water into the oil during DW11.  Back apart it came, to the current version, which tossed the rod this year.

A quick update on this situation:  I sent the broken rod pieces to Blair Patrick (who I bought them from), and they are now on the way to Crower.  Blair talked to Crower, and first cut from them was that a break in the beam of one of their rods is very, very rare, and that the rods I had should have been able to handle 1500 HP, even though they are rated at 1000 HP.  I'd consider an upgrade to Olivers but I don't think I've got room in the crankcase for them; their outside profile is significantly bigger than the Crowers, and I'm already notching everywhere to clear the big stroke.

And just to echo Barry's comments, the block repair is going slowly, and is going to require new machining pretty much everywhere.  It looks like a combination of welding and those lock n stitch pins is going to be the solution.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Barry_R

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #79 on: October 11, 2014, 11:53:07 AM »
I do not think an Oliver would be an upgrade from a Crower part...

Now if you could get a Dyers or other 300M part in the correct size...
R&R will make you a billet steel rod in any dimension, but bring your checkbook & be prepared....

900HP

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #80 on: October 13, 2014, 02:09:50 PM »
Jay, here's another option on rods.  I toured the facility on our first trip to Engine Master's.  It is all done by one guy and he does the design work and machine work on these rods all in his own little machine shop.  It reminds me of your place in some ways.  These aren't cheap but they aren't as bad as you would think either.  Be sure to look at his list of customers, these are not low end.

http://spmtitaniumrods.com/

ScotiaFE

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #81 on: October 15, 2014, 10:49:23 AM »

machoneman

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #82 on: October 15, 2014, 11:01:04 AM »
Wow! $6,740 for eight or $843 per rod. At that price one could buy 5-6 sets of Crower or Oliver rods I bet. Speed still costs $...how fast do you want to go  ;)
Bob Maag

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #83 on: October 15, 2014, 11:22:44 AM »
For 99.9% of us an iron based rod is more than adequate.
The Titanium rod does have a life cycle also which is probably shorter than the iron rod.
For someone watching this thread and thinking I need a really good set of rods for my really expensive FE.
Don't be lead away for the Crower iron rod. It is still a great rod and will do yeoman's duty.
Jay's was just an miss alignment between the moon and honey jar which caused a reverse rotation of the pot on the back burner.

machoneman

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #84 on: October 15, 2014, 11:36:27 AM »
I was kidding at Ti rods do have a place. Yet, I'm still amazed at the high price in today's world and thought a TI rod set would be a lot less expensive. Go figure! 
Bob Maag

fe66comet

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #85 on: October 15, 2014, 01:56:50 PM »
I always build one level past the expected stress level on anything. I do not like surprises, if it means spending $8,000 to protect a $50,000 investment and it would up the integrity from marginal to safe it is money well spent. I would always opt to be safe rather than sorry. Once you go over 1000 HP you are playing a different game and upgraded parts are a necessity to perform reliably at that level JMHO.

900HP

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #86 on: October 18, 2014, 03:34:55 PM »
The Ti rods I suggested were $3200 a set when I asked about them.

mb198

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #87 on: June 09, 2015, 07:55:50 PM »
Has there been any updated response from Crower to this rod failure? I'm reading this late but still curious.

jayb

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #88 on: June 09, 2015, 08:52:57 PM »
All Crower would say is that the rod failure should have never happened; "We very rarely see beam failures in our rods".  They refused to take any responsibility for it, or offer me any kind of a discount on a new set.  Not that I was expecting any, because the rods were 5 or 6 years old, and of course they are a racing part.  But I sent them both ends of the rod for analysis, and they couldn't find anything wrong that would have caused the failure.  Nearly everybody else I've talked to, including a metallurgical engineer I know, said that the failure was typical of a material defect in the rod.

I still like the Crower rods for a variety of reasons, but I used to just trust that they were good and put them in the engine without checking them.  No more.  In fact, the new set in my rebuilt SOHC short block has already been magged...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

mb198

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Re: 577 SOHC Post Mortem
« Reply #89 on: June 10, 2015, 02:24:10 PM »
Thanks,

30 years ago when you called Crower with a question, you talked with Mr. Crower (I forget his first name) or he called you back. So whenever we needed something we went to Crower, we didn't know about metallurgy but we knew he would talk with us kids that were trying to learn, he made this 18 year old get a smaller cam.

Big company today.

So, Im replying to this to ask why stay with Crower, when there are several other good rod makers?
 
Mark