My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[cobracammer]

More "long story short"?......  I'm so glad you asked!  OK so After installing a brand new IAC stepper motor. It helped a little, but I was still getting the rough idle (in the low range of 400 to 500 rpm).  This is always after the IAC is set when engine was warmed up and the TPS recalibrated....  Cold start the next day, and it always happens.

Installed the MSD Capacitor on the MSD Box.  Prior to the install, with the Aluminum shielding tape used, I was getting IRM (Electrical noise) of only occasionally (3).  But almost always it was at 0.  With the Capacitor installed, it seemed to stay at (0).  But still.....  Rough Idle. 

While the rough idle is occurring (when engine was cold), I would check on the IRM screen, and it would still be at absolute (0).

So in the end, it was not engine noise.....  and it was not a bad IAC stepper motor.

The last time I started the car for the tests above, I noticed that there was little bits of fuel that were working their way up the vacuum line to the Auto Meter Vacuum gauge.  How in the world is fuel going AGAINST vacuum??  LOL


Called the Auto Meter people and they said, "Not Sure, Call the People at FAST"

Called FAST during my lunch break today to discuss the fuel going up my vacuum line (even though the vacuum gauge is working and registering vacuum)....  He had no clue and made a good point.....  "That goes against all physics!"  Its been years now of talking to the fast techs, so I always like to keep throwing my usual issues at them as an, "Oh by the way....  I also have been experiencing...."

Today I told him how the vacuum gauge registers like 7" to 8".  The guy literally busted out laughing!  It was contagious (even though I was on the butt end.... or so it felt like).  He explained that 8" is the stopping point for this system.  8" and below, and the system will JUST NOT WORK!  They always require 10" or more.  So I asked him, "Can you tell me exactly what are the symptoms of too low manifold vacuum"?  And he went on to explain that if there wasn't at least 10", you would go through the computer to set your IAC, and it would run well when hot (possibly as vacuum increased a tiny bit when the engine heated up) and then when you go to start the car the next day, the IAC would be way off because you were not meeting the vacuum requirements for the system to work

******CHECK*****

He also stated that it may run to rich! and possibly running rich may cause fuel to back up into the vacuum port I am using for reference on the Gauge.

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I private messaged Jay a few hours ago, but after I hit send, I wasn't quite sure what answer I wanted him to give  LOL  In the end, even if I screwed with the initial timing to get the idle vacuum up a bit, I would be just at the cusp of what the system requires and also now would be at a point with ignition timing that was not ideal as Jay tested it on the Dyno.

I did it...... I bit the bullet and ordered the Fitech Power Adder 2 X 4 EFI system.  As stated a few pages ago (Back in December), you have the ability to lock out the Distributor if you wanted and control timing through the computer, or not!  It also has 4 settings for your cam at initial set up.  Cam setting 4 is for Wild cams with between 4" to 6" of vacuum. So perfect for this car as I get about 7" to 8" at idle out of gear in park  lol.

As upset as I am with the FAST EZ EFI system for not working, I have to give it some credit for running and driving for the last year or so that I have been using it.  I am going to uninstall it, package the whole system up nicely, and I am going to list it for sale on this site in the classified section soon.  2 throttle bodies, upgraded touch screen handheld controller, original handheld controller, ECU, the Coolant temp sensor, the Wideband 02 sensor ... the whole kit and caboodle!

I will let you all know when the new system arrives  :0)

[jayb]

Hope the new system works out, Jason.  FYI fuel will go up the vacuum line because of pulsing in the intake manifold.  It is not a steady level of vacuum at all times, what your gauge reads is an average vacuum level.  Search for a video of Jon Kaase sticking his finger in an intake manifold when it is running, and you will see what I mean...

[My427stang]

Could the cams be advanced at all on your setup to get a bit more vacuum?  Not sure if you have room with compression or valve clearance, but you likely could get some vacuum back with a little earlier cam timing

[newfalconowner]

you sure you want to sell that new handheld with the fast setup,, not sell seperatley? lol//

to bad it hasn't worked right for you, I think my motor is right at the borderline for vacuum as well,, I hooked a gauge to it last week and it had 10 if I remember right..

[cobracammer]

Guy said 10 would be fine....  8 and below was No Mans Land  lol

[Leny Mason]

Jason, did you get that guys name it sounds like he is the only technician there that knows what is going on there, ask for him from now on. Leny Mason

[cobracammer]

Alrighty.  The new EFI system came the other day and I am in the process of slowly uninstalling the FAST dual quad system and cleaning, Bagging, labeling, etc......  So I can get it up for sale here soon.

I did (in order to not have stuff falling into the intake)  just install the 2 FiTech throttle bodies. 

I had a quick question.  The FiTech system has the ability to control timing (assuming you hook it up that way).  The question is:  How does it control timing?  I know the timing at idle right now (at 1000 rpm idle) is 12 degrees.  Does the EFI know that?  LOL

Or do you have to input the base timing when setting up an EFI system (any EFi system I am sure that controls timing).  Then the System takes your word for it and uses your what base timing you input as the base?

I have been reading on it, and it would seem that it works off of vacuum.  When the idle starts to fall, it results in a fall in vacuum.  Then the ECu compensates by (retarding?) the spark to get RPM's and thus vacuum back up?

Can someone take me to school on this one?  I am thinking about locking out my distributor and allowing the FiTech system to control timing.  I just want to understand it first  LOL

Thanks again!

[jayb]

Jason, there should be a parameter in the software that you can modify, so that the timing map in your software will match the reading of your timing light.  See my most recent post in the dyno mule thread on this board to see how that works with the MS3-Pro system.  I'm sure the Fitech system must have something similar, if it does indeed control timing.

[My427stang]

Or do you have to input the base timing when setting up an EFI system (any EFi system I am sure that controls timing).  Then the System takes your word for it and uses your what base timing you input as the base?

Mostly this.  In fact, it doesn't care what your initial is.  It is just additive.

That being said, electronic timing control is a real good thing.  In my 489 I have initial set at 10 BTDC (the required reference point for the reluctor wheel that drives the injectors), as soon as it fires, the computer adds 10 to 20 BTDC at idle  That sure smooths things out without fighting the starter.  If you have that option, and an easy way to lock your distributor, I'd do it

[cobracammer]

Thanks Jay and Ross.  I am able to control the timing with FiTech, and After reading your most recent post Jay, I understand.  The ECU doesnt read my base timing, i set it in the ecu, and then when I start the car, i recheck with the timing light to make sure it reads what I entered on the computer.  It also looks like this should be done at like 2000 rpm's so you get a solid reading to verify.  Once this is set, the ECU controls the spark.  I think I will do it this way.  Thanks guys!

[cobracammer]

Alrighty.  Fast EZ EFI Dual Quad system has been uninstalled!  I have it posted for sale in the classified section for anyone who is interested.  I think I listed it for a little less than I originally thought I should sell it for (or what its worth).  Basically brand new with no real mileage at all to speak of.  Upgrades touchscreen handheld, Harness still even has the paper tags on it!  PM me if your interested.  Its in perfect condition.  Just make sure you have 10" of vacuum or more (As the manufacturer suggests!)  LOL

Thanks Guys

[cobracammer]

Slow progress because I have had to order all the little bits and pieces for hooking up the fuel lines to the throttle bodies.  Last night I got the last parts I was waiting for and was able to hook up the fuel cross over line that connects both throttle bodies together in line.  I also had to call the guys over at FiTech to ask a question about fuel filters.  The FiTech system requires a 30 micron filter.  The fast system required an inline filter as well, but no one knew what the micron rating was!  Just to be safe (and since it was like only $20), I just ordered an inline fuel filter from FiTech which is 30 Micron.  I actually had a call in to them to ask if I was able to leave the FAST fuel filter inline and then add the FiTech 30 micron filter inline as well.... just closer to the throttle bodies.  After a few days, I got the reply that it would be fine as long as the fuel pump(s) I have could handle the pressure.  My in tank pumps are more than up to the task!  Overkill actually.  So I placed the additional fuel filter in line about 8 inches or so from the inlet of the throttle body.

Then on to testing.  The FiTech system runs at 58 PSI (FAST ran at 43 PSI), so turned the key on, and looked for leaks.  Not at the start, but this is at 43 PSI still.  So I went over to the Fuel pressure regulator, and adjusted to 58 PSI and then locked it back down.  After another round of flashlight checks, I smelled fuel!  It was actually dripping out at the FiTech fuel filter inlet I just installed, so I slowly snugged it down a little more and that one stopped.  Then noticed it was dripping slowly on one side of the fuel crossover line that connects the throttle bodies.  Again, slowly snugged it down until the drip stopped.   Luckily, I let it run for another 2 or 3 minutes to make sure the system would stay "Drip Free" under the new higher pressure....  And it did.

The last part of this swap is just installing the 02 sensor, coolant sensor, connecting the handheld and finally locking out the distributor so that the ECU will control the timing (this I will do last).  Hope to make a little headway this weekend.  It has been pouring rain here for the last 3 weeks straight!

[blackthunder1970]

hi
which one did you buy the 625s or the 1200s
thanks
barry

[cobracammer]

Hi Barry,

It was system #300064.  I think its the 1200 Power Adder system. 

Best Regards,

[blackthunder1970]

hi jason
thanks for that
thinking of going the same way
waiting to hear of your testing
cheers
barry