My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[machoneman]

Jay might know this one: is it possible that one of the head's header bolt hole(s) traps into oil (I know, it didn't do so on the dyno but...)?

[jayb]

Nope, the header bolts don't go into any oil passages. 

[MRadke]

Is it possible that too long of a header bolt could crack into oil?

[jayb]

I don't think so, the main oil passage through the head goes right down the middle, and the oil passages up to the cam bearings and rockers shafts come up from that.  It would be possible to crack into water with a bolt that was overly tightened and too long, but not oil.

[blykins]

UV oil dye penetrant and a black light....

[cobracammer]

Hey Brent.  That's not a bad idea!  Thanks.

[cobracammer]

As I am sure you all are as tired of me talking about a "mystery" oil leak/ leaks.....  I must push on!

decided to try something today to pinpoint the drivers side leak.  Tried plugging the little "pass through" from the top of the intake (where the distributor sits) down to the oil filter adapter (where the oil keeps pooling up after any kind of drive).  My thought was that the rag would be soaked in oil, and there would be no oil at all (or very little) pooled up on the oil filter adapter area.  After a short drive (literally up and down just my street), the rag was dry on top and the pool of oil in the oil filter adapter was there!!!  Sucks!  What this tells me is that the oil leak was/is not coming from the distributor area.

Oil still dripping all over the passenger side headers, and making the exhaust smoke out the back of the car.  and now a new oil leak that I did not notice before (because its pretty small).  where the intake manifold meets up with the cylinder head, oil has pooled on 2 or 3 of the areas.  Its hard to describe, but its pooling on the lip of where the intake meets the head.  you can see a little bit (edge) of the intake gasket all the way around the intake.  in 2 to 3 area, there is a little oil pooled there.  Now for the kicker......  Its bone dry all the way around the oil!  360 degrees!  The oil seems to have pushed up right where it pooling?

My thoughts (just to talk aloud) is the fact that there are 9 quarts of oil in this engine.  The engine also has no valley pan underneath the intake manifold.  There are 2 or 3 machined holes in the top of the block (in the valley) that are not plugged, and most likely are not supposed to be?  Oil may be being pressured through the valley holes, and through the intake gasket and then pooling where I see it on the outside?

I'm almost 100% sure that all of the smoke out the back of this car is due to a mystery oil leak dripping on the headers and then into the slip joint.

so back to 3 oil leaks.

Another fact....  the oil that leaks onto the headers on the passenger side and runs down the header into the slip joints......  some of it drips on the driveway and its PITCH BLACK.  I am guessing this is because it is being burned on the headers?

The oil that leaks out onto the drivers side (and pools on the block near the oil filter adapter is clear!  Other than Brent's idea to to the UV and black light trick, I am at a complete loss......  Then there is always pulling the intake manifold, and both valve covers to reseal and replace all the gaskets........  :0\

[rowdy58ford]

Put a vacuum pump on the motor!

[cobracammer]

I am going to pull and reseal the intake manifold first.  Hopefully this will solve the issue as its the only place left oil can leak from.  Gaskets are ordered and hopefully will have them in a week or so

[BH107]

Haven't been on in awhile so I haven't been watching the thread...

Sorry to hear about all of the oil leak troubles. It sounds like some of your oil may be coming from the front cover area. Keep in mind that there should be little to no oil in the valley because unlike a wedge FE that drains oil there, the only place for oil to come up is from the distributor and that definitely shouldn't be enough to come up to the intake level.

The fact that it leaks more at higher RPM would make sense too, as more oil is draining into the front cover with the increased volume, and then getting slung around by the chain it can get everywhere. I'm not sure if Jay used gaskets or just sealer on the front cover, but it might be worth trying to snug some of those bolts down as well.

[newfalconowner]

hows things going now?

[cobracammer]

Nothing new to report.  Since resealing the intake manifold, I have been busy moving.  Car is in storage.  I have been thinking about the EZ efi system, and sadly, with the vacuum the engine pulls, I dont think I can expect better idle.  Just too low ( FAST suggests at a minimum 10"..... and that might even give you problems)

I expect I will still have smoke on next startup because of residual in the exhaust system.  Hopefully all leaks are fixed.  Wont know until next run.

I was curious why it ran so clean at the original timing ( before I corrected initial to 12)  At an initial timing of 8, you can see in the first video I posted ( walk around with under hood shots and EFI screens) that the exhaust had no smoke at all.  Might just be coincidence, but after setting initial to 12 ( total of 30), the smoking began.

Either way, I am not happy with the EFI, and was thinking about dual Holley 660 cfm carbs.  For now, still working on relocation.

[My427stang]

I have to tell you, I think if you go carbs you are going the wrong direction.

If you said "the hand held programmer doesn't give me the control I need" I'd likely agree, but carbs are going to make that motor act more ornery down low.  Surely can be done, but if FAST had a way for you to do real programming with a different ECU, it'd change things.

First, is the ability just to adjust more, but second is the ability to go "open loop" at idle.  It turns the EFI into electronic carbs that don't self adjust, or you can pick the inputs to avoid the O2 sensor at idle, or the MAP sensor, etc, then when you throttle up, off it goes into closed loop

Next, not sure how your engine is set up, but at sole point advancing the cam may make the engine closer match the desired use rather than just diving off the EFI. Heck, even a little lash can help tame a cam, although I'd defer to Jay on whether there is room there

Your car is incredibly cool, Jon Kaase did one a while back with a Boss 9 stroker, his was cool too, but, I think he wimped out when he left off the EFI on a car designed for EFI

[cobracammer]

Hey Ross,

Yea, I have been going back and forth.  Either way, its going to cost me a bit of $$.  So after your post, I made a call to FAST (aka... Comp Cams  LOL).

I explained to them that I had the FAST Dual Quad EZ-EFI.  That it works beautifully in closed loop after the engine reaches temp.  Very satisfied in closed loop!

However, until the car reaches operating temperature (From cold start to 140 degrees)....  Its horrible.  Starts at 1000 RPM (as programmed), and within seconds, starts to drop in RPM's until its stumbling at 300-400 RPM......  then will die unless you stay on the gas.  And even when you stay on the gas to keep the RPM's at 1000...  its a very rough idle.  But again, once it reaches operating temp and the system enters "Closed Loop", its like night and day!  It stays at 1000 RPM, the IAC hovers around 25 , etc....

The FAST rep said it was strange.... (which I have heard about 20 times now on my many calls in to FAST)  LOL.

He explained that there is no way at all to make the EZ-EFI system I have go into closed loop any faster.  He also said it has very little ability to alter much.

I explained to him that starting over from scratch with a brand new EFI system would just be craziness!  But I read online that the Sportsman XFI (which is a more modern and adjustable product from fast) will work with my existing dual throttle bodies.  It will need the "Sportsman XFI " ECU, a new handheld/Display, all new sensors (Coolant temp, O2, etc) and a new harness.

I then asked the $1,000,000 Question......  If I send you my current handheld (which is the LCD one I just upgraded to) and I send you the EZ EFI ECU, Can I get any sort of trade in credit for upgrading to the Sportsman EFI.

Just as a side note, the Sportsman XFI has a self learning feature, but it also allows you to disable it and tune the engine with a laptop!!!  Solving the problem with engines with low vacuum as well as any cold start problems (which has taken over the internet as the topic of conversation when it comes to the old EZ EFI system I currently have).

He told me he would have to go a little higher up in the chain of command, but took all of my information and said he will call me back with an answer tomorrow.

I can honestly say that tuning an EFI system is well beyond me so even if they agree to this and I am able to upgrade to the Sportsman EFI, I will have to truck the car off to someone who can tune the car on a dyno or something.  But for tonight at least........  There may be hope in an upgrade.!

Keep you guys posted

[My427stang]

Man you need to get that thing to Omaha

BTW, my hunch is that you don't need to get it into closed loop quicker, my hunch is you have a setup issue that is causing the open loop to not work properly.  Common errors are misadjusted throttle plates, misadjusted TPS, defective or (if adjustable) IAC motor.  Those things, after repair, then require retuning.

Now, that being said, the XFI is similar to how I tune, I build a tune that even accounts for valve opening events, then I get it to run as good as I can without ever enabling learning.  Once it runs great, then I enable learning to tweak for local conditions.

I do take periodic Orlando and Cocoa FL trips, how far are you from there?