Author Topic: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!  (Read 775909 times)

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newfalconowner

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1665 on: September 04, 2016, 08:10:25 PM »
sorry to hear your having some bad luck. stay positive and things will come together.. I think I will start to take some of the bad luck from you,, at least I hope I am,, my car lately has been giving me fits and it seems to be never ending..

We will win this,,

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1666 on: September 04, 2016, 08:49:53 PM »
Yes Sir!  Lol  its just another issue to beat.  Like it was said earlier,  after all thesmall issues are fixed, they will be super reliable cars.  Also, you will know them inside and out!  We'll eventually get it!
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

rowdy58ford

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1667 on: September 05, 2016, 08:44:28 AM »
Just a heads up on Keith C C&C machining on coon heads he did my heads and built the motor put on dyno and water blew out of spark plug holes he cut the intake short side and they leaked said send back and  did nothing so my advice is to be sure you get the heads pressure checked and save some time and money!

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1668 on: September 06, 2016, 01:07:30 PM »
OK just off the phone with RAM Hydraulics by way of Jegs.  I wanted to get a replacement stud (was hoping for a replacement with at least some way to put a wrench on it if it ever started coming lose again)..... No Luck.  I was told that the smooth dowel pin type stud (which only places the bearing and stoops it from spinning after coming into contact with the clutch fingers) is the only one that can be used.  I explained that I followed the instructions and hand tightened it (no thread locker as it didn't state it needed it in the directions).  I also explained that after only 3 drives around the neighborhood, the locator-dowel pin- stud had slowly started to unscrew and work its way toward the spinning pressure plate fingers!

They are going to send me out a replacement dowel stud free of charge, but this time he suggested thread locker.  He also suggested using a pair of pliers or channel locks to get it as tight as I can.  He said it was going to gouge and scar up the dowel, but it should stop it (in combo with Loctite) from ever coming loose again.

Unfortunately, transmission has to come out..... After this fix, I am going to take the car on a 50-60 mile spin around the city to let the EFI learn and really get dialed in.
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

Tboggus

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1669 on: September 07, 2016, 08:20:27 AM »
Jason, any way to have some flats machined into the dowel to use a wrench on?

jmlay

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1670 on: September 07, 2016, 10:48:26 AM »
Cut a slot in the end to use a large flat blade screwdriver is also an option.
Mike

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1671 on: September 07, 2016, 03:53:43 PM »
Good Idea.  Would have been nice if they would have made it so you could tighten it with an allen key or something.  All the others I have seen have a nut built in near the threads.  This one from RAM is just a smooth tube with threads on it.  Its the HD version of this bearing too, so you would think people will be throwing all kinds of abuse at it.  In the end, I am just grateful it didn't make it into the pressure plate.  :0)
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1672 on: September 12, 2016, 06:56:42 AM »
Well.... This weekend was eventful.  It was time to get that darn transmission out for like the 4th or 5th time and replace the locator stud for the hydraulic throw out bearing.  Started by removing the X pipe.  From there, the Driveshaft needed to be removed.  I noticed that 2 of the bolts holding the end caps of the driveshaft were easier to untighten than the other 2.  These already had lock washers on them, but a mental note was made to add Loctite when re-assembling (Adding Loctite is going to be a re-occurring theme as we work through this post).
Once the driveshaft was removed, I placed a clear bag over the output hole on the transmission and then wrapped rubber bands around it to catch any trans fluid from dripping out.  Once I unbolted the trans cross member, I was able to remove all 8 bolts (with the wifes help again) from the transmission.  Again, I noticed that even though all 8 of these bolts were torqued in place (40 ft lbs or so) last time, 3 or 4 of them were easier to unbolt than the others...... another mental note for Loctite.

Finally I put the trans jack under it and wrapped a wratchet strap around it for good measure (which ended up really helping).  After a little "lower and back up"... over and over, I had it out.  I didn't even bother pulling it out from under the car. I completed surgery right then and there.

From a visual inspection, I got lucky.  The stud had just began to work itself loose and in doing so, had just started to "kiss" the pressure plate fingers.  There was no damage, but you could see a faint outline of where it had grazed them.  Upon comparison of the old stud to the replacement, they were the same size, but apparently the heat of just lightly touching the spinning fingers along with me pushing the clutch slightly bent the old stud!  Crazy.  Luckily the threaded hole in the spacer plate was in perfect condition.  I thoroughly cleaned the new stud as well as the threaded hole in the spacer plate.  Then, once dried, I applied a liberal amount of blue Loctite and screwed it into place.  For good measure, I took a pair of channel locks and a rubber dish glove (to somewhat protect the stud and also because they are a weird dry-sticky type of rubber that grips really well), and was able to get almost another full turn to a turn and a half out of it.  definitely not coming loose!  It says dries in 10 minutes and fully cures in 24 hours, but I am giving it one full week.

From this point, it was just reinstalling everything in the reverse order, but this time with LOCTITE!  LOL.  I put Loctite on all 8 transmission bolts (in addition to the lock washers) as well as  Loctite on the 4 saddle bolts on the yolk side of the driveshaft.

While under the car (after soaking up the success of a fun morning), I started to wipe the underside clean.  With the car up on the jackstands, I plan to run it for a while and then crawl under it to find the oil leak visually.  Its weird because the drivers side seems to be shiny with a sheen of oil, and I cant see just one area it might be coming from.  I still think it may be coming from the oil filter adapter and "misting" out, but I will find out this coming weekend.  While under the car wiping everything clean with a rag, I started to feel around in the areas I could not see........

Wouldn't you believe it, there was a bolt missing out of each header flange!  I couldn't believe it.  All the other bolts are tight as could be (couldn't tighten them up at all).  Its weird because there is no way to see these 2 missing bolts.  They are in the middle of the header flange and the only way I knew they were missing was feeling around.  Either way, I grabbed 2 more bolts with lock washers and slowly(and I mean 1/16" at a time) went to tightening them.  It literally took an hour or so to install these 2 bolts, but got them as tight as humanly possible for not being able to see them (and barely being able to turn a wrench on them.

Next weekend I am going to plug in the new upgraded handheld (which gives me access to modify a few more fuel features on the EFI) and take it back out for a drive!
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

My427stang

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1673 on: September 12, 2016, 10:58:53 AM »
Glad to see you decided to use some Loctite, but there seems to be a trend here of loose bolts.  They just HAVE to be tight, no matter how hard it is to do, or how long it takes.  If it sounds like I am scolding LOL it's because I am! 

Your car is too fast, too nice, and too expensive to have bolts loosening up.  If you are torqueing these bolts, better have your torque wrench checked.  If you are not, better start working out!  LOL

Seriously though, I have never had a bell housing bolt, a tranny bolt, or any of the header bolts loosen up significantly, they were likely too loose to begin with and I have never had to use Loctite.  I know you asked about torque, so my guess is your wrench is inaccurate.

Now, enough nagging.  A technique with header bolts...get some mechanics gloves and wear a thermal undershirt (long sleeve).  Get every good wrench you can find, as well as 1/4 inch and 3/18 inch drive ratchets, so you have a wide range of tools to attack.  Then get the engine hot, shut it down and tighten all the bolts.  It'll be a beeyatch...but you tighten them hot, they'll stay there.

I recommend you go from front to back and check your work, to include suspension/K frame stuff.  That car is too cool, hate to see it, or you, end up hurt.
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1674 on: September 12, 2016, 01:07:58 PM »
Thanks Ross.  Yea, super weird.  Not only did I torque everything last time, but afterwards, I went back around and re-torqued since I know by the time you get to the last bolt, a few of them might be off a little (not as tight as they should be).  So I know for a fact that last time, I torqued the trans to bellhousing bolts to like 40 Ft Lbs (with lock washers on them).  Then I went around 1 more time re-torqued at the same 40 Ft Lbs just to be sure.

This time when I went to take them out, about 3 or 4 of them were easier to loosen than the others.  Not loose by any means, but didn't have to put the same monkey paw on the wrench to get them off.  Same with the drive shaft to rear yolk bolts.  This time....... liberal amounts of Loctite.

As for the header bolts, I have checked the bolts after a few heat cycles, and they are still tight!  I couldn't tighten any of them anymore.  The 1 on each side that was missing is a mystery.  I find it hard to believe that exactly the same bolt location on each side fell out at exactly the same time.  I am thinking maybe I just couldn't (and still can't) see these bolt locations so I must have forgotten to install them?  That seems more plausible  lol.  Anyway, I wrenched down on those 2 as well this time and will (as you said) get them hot again and see if I can tighten them all a little more that way.

Getting close....  ERRR.... Again  :0)
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

My427stang

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1675 on: September 12, 2016, 05:34:17 PM »
Thanks Ross.  Yea, super weird.  Not only did I torque everything last time, but afterwards, I went back around and re-torqued since I know by the time you get to the last bolt, a few of them might be off a little (not as tight as they should be).  So I know for a fact that last time, I torqued the trans to bellhousing bolts to like 40 Ft Lbs (with lock washers on them).  Then I went around 1 more time re-torqued at the same 40 Ft Lbs just to be sure.

This time when I went to take them out, about 3 or 4 of them were easier to loosen than the others.  Not loose by any means, but didn't have to put the same monkey paw on the wrench to get them off.  Same with the drive shaft to rear yolk bolts.  This time....... liberal amounts of Loctite.

As for the header bolts, I have checked the bolts after a few heat cycles, and they are still tight!  I couldn't tighten any of them anymore.  The 1 on each side that was missing is a mystery.  I find it hard to believe that exactly the same bolt location on each side fell out at exactly the same time.  I am thinking maybe I just couldn't (and still can't) see these bolt locations so I must have forgotten to install them?  That seems more plausible  lol.  Anyway, I wrenched down on those 2 as well this time and will (as you said) get them hot again and see if I can tighten them all a little more that way.

Getting close....  ERRR.... Again  :0)

Hang in there, I thought my black stroker EFI Mustang was cool, yours is a whole level (or two) cooler.  You'll get there!
---------------------------------
Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1676 on: September 18, 2016, 08:01:13 PM »
OK gentlemen, another update.  I finally was able to get the upgraded FAST EZ EFI "Fuel" version handheld installed.  This is a touchscreen handheld that mounts on the windshield much like a Garmin Nuvi.  This upgrade also allows me the ability to alter a few more fuel options.  I now am able to adjust cranking fuel, accel fuel and cold start fuel.  Not really sure what they need to be adjusted to, but I will get there I am sure.

2nd update is the oil leak.  I am 100% sure that the oil is leaking from the back side of the block.  after a complete wipe down, I let the engine run (through the set up procedure of the handheld).  After shutting it off, I rolled back under and saw that the oil is leaking down the backing plate to the bell housing.  I can see a little glistening of oil between the backing plate and the back of the oil pan.  I wanted to run this past you all on here before any action.  What are the chances of various places for the leak?  I was thinking maybe just the back of the oil pan is leaking?  Is it possible an oil galley on the back of the block (a whole lot harder and more time consuming)....  I did check the back of the block on the top end (i.e. where Jay mentioned on the back of the intake and also where the heads meet the block) and both were dry.  I was just going to crank down on the oil pan bolts a little more, but again wanted to check with you all before doing so.

Lastly, is the power steering.  I don't have I needed to install the pump so that the rack was closed to dirt and such, but I never put a belt on the old FE pump (and I believe the PSI is too great for the modern rack).  Also, the stock rack has been dripping P/S fluid as well as the fact that I get tire wobble at 40 MPH and up.  After a little investigation, I see that my inner and outer tie rods are both bad (really bad).  The guy I purchased this car from was using it as a daily driver from Miami to Boca every day....  so expected ware.  Rather than trying to fix the leak, replace the inner and outer tie rods, and also fabricate a bracket for the OEM pump (which mounts in the worst possible way), I purchased a flaming rover manual rack for the 05-09 Mustang and also a pair of Moog outer tie rod ends.  This seemed to be a god send in my mind.  Now I don't have to have a power steering pump, reservoir, P/S lines, nor do I have to install the inner tie rods.  I will keep the old hydraulic rack (just for the future), but this manual rack is supposed to just bolt up in the stock location.  This will now afford me the ability to get up past 40 MPH so I can go have the car aligned!

So really my only issue is the oil leak!  With over 9 quarts of oil in this engine, I am wondering how probable just oil pan bolts loosening would be?  I would assume when Jay ran this engine on the Dyno, that if it were an oil galley plug on the rear of the block, it would have come to light then.  Is there a torque spec for the oil pan bolts?  If so, I can check to make sure that none of the ones on the rear have loosened up? 
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears

WConley

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1677 on: September 18, 2016, 08:15:56 PM »
Jason -

You will get lots of steering slop if you run a hydraulic rack with no fluid pressure to it.  The internal valves/ plungers that direct pressure assist are empty and will go full travel before the rack moves.  (With fluid pressure they only move a tiny bit...)  I bet it's quite exciting to drive the car that way  :o

The manual rack (and new tie rod ball joints) will fix this, of course, but you're going to be building a lot of arm strength trying to park that thing!
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

jayb

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1678 on: September 18, 2016, 08:41:52 PM »
Jason, I would definitely tighten up the oil pan bolts.  There are two gaskets in there, between the windage tray and the block and the windage tray and the pan.  I used sealer on the gaskets but sometimes the gaskets shrink a little and then a leak can develop.

I don't think you need to worry about  the plugs coming out of the back, since they are screw-in plugs.

Do you have a good breather on the engine?  If you have crankcase pressure building up due to an insufficient breather you can force oil out past the rear main seal also.
Jay Brown
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- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

cobracammer

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Re: My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!
« Reply #1679 on: September 19, 2016, 06:37:06 AM »
Hi Jay.  OK I will snug them down.  The engine has the 2 breathers on either side the valve covers.  They are the 60's era metal caps with the holes under the cap to vent.  Not sure if it needs something additional?

Thanks again!!!   :0)  This car is already a lot of fun  lol
Jason
2005 Saleen S281 (427 SOHC 2 X 4 EFI swap), T56 Magnum XL 6 speed, 9" Currie rear with 3.89 Gears