My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[cobracammer]

Hey Ross,
I wanted to start with these.  These are the EFI ecu's screens with power on but car not running. Want to get a charger before I crank again, but i wanted to run these past you all and the FAST tech to make sure everything is ok setting wise for the start. Not sure if these are useful, but i thought it a good idea to start here. LOL

[cjshaker]

yes to low voltage in the bat. it shall read 12.6 for a full battery

Actually a "full" battery should read 13.2 volts, or 2.2 volts per cell. At a minimum it should be reading over 12 or around 12.5. Anything under 12 and the battery is not up to par and the voltage will drop off significantly during cranking. If you already had a maintainer on it and it was only in the 11s, then it sounds like the battery is weak and can't pull the load.   

Even with bad connections you will typically get a full voltage reading of whatever the battery reads, anywhere in the circuit. But when a load is applied, the voltage will drop off big time. That's why a test light or multi-meter are not always good indicators of whether you have a good connection. They only take a miniscule amount of current to indicate the voltage, but once the load is applied, that voltage disappears. It's referred to as ghost voltage.

[ScotiaFE]

Like I said. never did like those "Red Tops". Always coming up short.
Get one those Canadian Tire Eliminators.
In the ad during the winter, they smashed one in half and it still worked.
Tested for life in Canada.

[cobracammer]

Hi Doug,

It actually read over 12 volts on the screen, but as soon as I turned the key to the acc position, it dropped to the 11.9 you see on the handheld.  When I turned the key back off, it went back into a little over 12 volts again.  I am only able to see that now because I wired the EFI computer 12 V switched power straight to the battery via toggle switch.  The old way, when I turned the key off, the EFI computer went blank with a "communication error"

Just went into the garage this morning and turned on the computer (I did not turn the Key on).  Battery reads 12.6 Volts

[My427stang]

OK, I will rn down some of these things, good stuff

The bad

BAT = 11.9, this may be a problem.  I wonder if you have a dead cell.  Any chance you could grab a battery out of another vehicle and just read this value?  More and more I don't like the battery, but hate to spend your money until we can see something better on there.  Maybe jump it and see what BAT reads.  If it comes up, your battery may be bad or the charger isn't doing its thing.

ON EDIT - I understand that you haven't had that value there yet and before it said comm error.  If that is the case, it's worth trying because the line voltage will climb like crazy with the alternator.  Again though, if it doesn't fire, or won't crank decently, get some jumper cables on it

All the good..

INJ DC% = 0 good, it is how much the injector is being used compared to what it can, Not running should be zero

LOAD% = 94, good, it compares manifold to ambient pressure (vacuum) and not running should be close to 100

MAP = 101, good, around 102 means standard day for atmospheric pressure, it would change when running, lower with vacuum

AF 15.9 = fine but meaningless, I assume 16.0 is the limit of the O2 sensor, so it is telling you way too lean, and it is, because it isn't running

ATS 90 - Good, looks like air temp in FL was around 90, checks with the water temp

CTS 87 - Coolant temp, good, see above, be advised that it cannot self learn until this is above 140

TP% - Good, resting idle should be zero for throttle position

AF - Current a/f - longer the bar, the more lean, its maxed, as expected not running

TAF - Target AF - As you can see, shorter bar, this is what the computer is shooting for, wants it richer.  That is good

For the 2 circles, SE and AL, watch those any time you have the screen up

SE = system error, if a check mark appears, its like a check engine light, go to the manual

AL = Adaptive learning, once it reaches temp, it should light up and then it is going to try do its thing

The "maybe" ... worth asking the tech

IAC - Reads 90, that is about 1/2 open.  An IAC allows more air in to raise idle as the engine adds more fuel.  Seems odd it would be so high.  Worth asking, but could be last running position too.

Overall I see no big issues other than the battery

Can you go into the advanced menu and tell me what Idle A/F, Cruise A/f and WO A/F is set at?

[cobracammer]

Hi Ross,

As per the advanced menu:

Idle A/F = 13.5

Cruise A/F = 14.0

WO A/F = 12.8

Also, Have a call into FAST about the IAC reading.  I have the instruction manual here and it says that the range for the IAC reading is between 5 and 180... and Generally it should read about 20 at idle (out of gear).  So even if this was a reading from when I had the car running, it would still be way off.  I will let you know what he says as soon as he calls me back.

[cobracammer]

OK my usual guy over (William) has not called back yet, but I spoke to another just to see what he would say.

He said that the computer sometimes hikes the IAC up so it will start easily and that you should only be concerned with the IAC value once its idling.

I am not sure if this makes sense or not since I cannot got the engine running  LOL  I will post again if William over at FAST calls me back

[cobracammer]

OK, Wanted to see how adding the toggle switches affected the BattV.  So while cranking, it never goes below 10.3 Volts (Perfect- just like the instructions say).  As soon as I stop cranking, it pops back up to a little above 12 Volts.  Unfortunately it still does not fire up.  It has spark, because it sputters every time, but does not fire.

William over at FAST just called back and he said that the IAC is set at 90 (Half way point) just to get it started, and should drop into the low 20's as soon as its idling.

He said we may need to further lower the fuel pressure (on the regulator only, not the computer-which always needs to stay reading 43 PSI).

He wants me to set the timing so that at 20 degrees BTDC, the rotar is dead center on the # 1 point on the cap.

He also asked about my spring combination in the MSD pro billet distributor.  He said there is also a possibility since I am using 1 light silver spring and 1 medium blue spring that its starting to advance before it has a chance to fire up....  Interesting thought since the first time I got it running was by basically turning the distributor clockwise quickly as someone was cranking it over. 

He said we can think about changing the springs after we try the timing and fuel pressure.

Just went into the Garage and turned the engine over to TDC 1 time (which was not the compression stroke because the distributor was not even close to the #1 plug wire) and then slowly around again to 20 degrees BTDC.  As soon as the timing pointer was right on the line of 20 degrees BTDC, I (having had the cap already off) played with the distributor housing until the rotor was dead center of the point in the cap leading to the #1 wire (this took a bit of on-and-off of the cap to get it exact).

I have not tried turning it over yet, but given the position of the cap behind the timing cover, I am not able to advance it any further past the 20 degrees it set at now.  I have room to dial back if necessary.

[cobracammer]

OK with the timing set at 20 BTDC, I tried turning the car over....  same sputtering.  This time (and the directions say that it should never be necessary, I tapped the throttle....  and it fired up...

Now, It would not stay running unless I kept my foot on the throttle and it did not sound smooth at all ( not like the last time I had it running by itself for 30 minutes or so)

in addition, white smoke that smelled like gas and burns your eyes filled the garage.

Not sure where to go from here.  Waiting for another call back from William at FAST.  Maybe in order to get this thing to fire up I need to manually adjust the throttle blades to open a bit more at cranking?

The running rough part was disheartening.  Almost sounded like a miss, but I double checked firing order on the cap, and made sure all the plug wires were connected down the tubes.....

This honestly has lost its fun factor.  I am out of my league on this stupid EFI system (and out like $3000.00)

[Heo]

yes to low voltage in the bat. it shall read 12.6 for a full battery

Well actualy the voltage when full depends on the temperature and you can write
a couple of pages about voltage versus temp variations But min 12.6 volt around roomtemperature.
When its charged its like you say 13.2 but fall quickly down to 12.6 if it falls more battery is bad

and the charger must have atleast 13.5 volt output to bee able to fully charge a battery
and not over 14.5 volt. To not overcharge the battery and boil out the electrolyte

Actually a "full" battery should read 13.2 volts, or 2.2 volts per cell. At a minimum it should be reading over 12 or around 12.5. Anything under 12 and the battery is not up to par and the voltage will drop off significantly during cranking. If you already had a maintainer on it and it was only in the 11s, then it sounds like the battery is weak and can't pull the load.   

Even with bad connections you will typically get a full voltage reading of whatever the battery reads, anywhere in the circuit. But when a load is applied, the voltage will drop off big time. That's why a test light or multi-meter are not always good indicators of whether you have a good connection. They only take a miniscule amount of current to indicate the voltage, but once the load is applied, that voltage disappears. It's referred to as ghost voltage.

[cobracammer]

Followed FAST techs advice , and the car started right up, but then was idling at like 2500 RPM.  started coming back down on its own, but then went back up to 2500 RPM and stayed there.  Obviously at that RPM started to overheat, so I turned the key off......  but the engine kept running.  Ended up pulling the coil wire to get it to shut off.

Honestly guys, Its not fun anymore.  Im tired of stabbing at this thing after all that I have done to get to this point.  I know my luck and I know since I don't know....  I will end up breaking something.

We have decided to just sell the car as is on ebay and let someone who knows EFI enjoy it.  Its taking up my days (between work), most nights and all of my weekends.  I think I just want to sell it and buy something nice I can enjoy right away.

The car ran last week.....  ran beautifully.  Better to sell while its still a magnificent car..

Thanks  :0)  and sorry you couldn't see it in action.  No one is more disappointed than me, believe me.

[Heo]

Take a break from the car for a couple of weeks
put on a couple of carbs so you can run it and fix
the efi in the winter dont give up when your so close
i think you will regret it if you sell it

Not an easy beginners projekt to build an fuelinjected SOCH
And you have come this close . Many had given up much
earlier Take a break smell the roses take a couple of beers
do something completly different and you will see it feels better
to work on it again
A couple of Holleys an a few hours and you have it running
and can enjoy it this summer

[cobracammer]

Wish I could. No $$ left to spend another $600 or so on carbs. Better that someone who knows to take over

[fastback 427]

I would take heo's advice, take some time off. I think most of us have been in your shoes or close. No money, no time, problem after problem, etc. When I need to blow some steam I head out to the country with my high power rifle, an old clothes washer, and 300$ in tannerite. The explosion is quite satisfying! Even therapeutic    I really do hope you stick with it, even though it's a huge pain in the a$$.

[cobracammer]

Just out of curiousity, how was it that the engine was still running when I shut the key off?  Running strong at 3000 RPM?