My 427 SOHC Build..... Finally the time has come!

[My427stang]

This is EFI, is the timing electronically controlled? If so, it's likely additive to base, so whatever you have it programmed for, your start setting is base, which is generally 10 degrees or so.

If it is not controlled by the box, then just give it as much as you can and still allow it to turn over, it won't hurt anything if it is over advanced unless you put a load on it. 13 is likely fine for initial, as is 10-16 or anything in between.

[cobracammer]

Ok the EFI does not control the timing.  i had it origionally at like 13, and I wouldnt run ( would go to start and then crap out a few seconds later). Had someone turn it over, and when it went to start, I turned the distributor clockwise until it was running strong. Hit it with the timing light and it was at 30 degrees running fine on its own. I revved it by hand a little and it stalled. While it was off, i took this time to tighten down the distributor hold down.

When I tried to start it again, it wont start. How is 30 great while its at idle, but too much to start again?

[My427stang]

Do you know that your mark is correct?

30 initial is likely too much to crank over, my guess is that the starter wouldn't crank, is that what you are seeing?

Unless you have a locked distributor (no advance) or mis marked timing marks, I see no reason to put it at 30 initial, not to mention it will WAY over advance as you rev it.

[WConley]

Jason -

Congrats on starting the engine and achieving a sustained idle.  That's huge considering all of the things you had to adapt to get the engine into the car (not to mention the black-belt task of properly assembling a cammer)!

Now it sounds like tuning and possibly a few sensor issues.  You should celebrate with a beer!  If it was me I'd probably be a couple of frustrating weekends before hearing the first fire 

[blykins]

Yeah, let me clarify my statement.....30 degrees initial is not where you want to be.   However, if you want to "pre-time" an engine, you can roll it over until your pointer is pointing at somewhere between 20-30 BTDC on your balancer (on compression stroke), then make sure the rotor is pointing at the #1 plug wire on the cap.  If everything else is right, it should start almost immediately and run until you can dial it on in. 

[ScotiaFE]

I'm not really up on the initial EFI start and tune, but could it be
you need to make small baby steps for the controller to see what is happening.
Once you get it running make very small adjustments at the dist.
It may even run a tad rough for a minute or so as you get the timing closer to a normal number
for the "box" to readjust to the new inputs.
As was said it is running and that is a huge achievement!

[cobracammer]

Hey Guys,

Sorry, but I have been preoccupied with a crappy coil connection (which means I keep trying to turn the engine over with no spark!)

the thing is, the MSD distributor has a Male coil prong and the coil itself (MSD blaster 2) has a female fitting.  The Coil wire that Jegs talked me into accepts male on both sides, so they also sold me a fitting that goes down into the coil and tightens against the side walls to make the female coil into a male.  I honestly hate this fitting as sometimes it creates a spark, but most times not.

I remembered that I gave it a go at making my own plug wires from an MSD kit, and found that the coil wire I made was male on one end and female on the other.  I had it tucked away in a box somewhere.

I snapped it on, but since the battery is almost completely dead from all the coil confusion, it has been hooked up to the battery tender all day.

I will let you all  know whats going on as it happens  LOL

[turbohunter]

Jason, something to keep in mind so that you don't tear your hair out.
The Blaster 2 coil has a fairly thick neck. If you're using a coil wire (from another company) that has tighter boots, the wire can work itself off, breaking contact. Especially if you use dielectric grease to put your wires together.
Yet the boot still looks like it's on correctly. MSD has a kluge plastic hold down to combat this.
After this happened to me I used zip ties at first to keep it tight and in good contact.
Good luck

[jayb]

To me it seems funny that it starts at 13 BTDC, and then runs better at 30 BTDC.  Sounds like a fuel issue, like maybe the EFI system is running it really lean or something.  I'm not familiar with these EFI systems that tune themselves, so I'm afraid I'm not much help on that part.

If you want to re-check TDC to make sure you have it correct, you can do it by using a piston stop that screws into the #1 spark plug hole.  I made one out of an old plug, by breaking away all the ceramic so that the plug was hollow, and then threading a bolt through the middle of the plug so that it sticks out of the end about an inch or so.  If you screw that into the #1 cylinder in place of the regular plug, you can turn the engine one way until it stops against the bolt, record the reading on the balancer, then turn the engine in the opposite direction until it stops against the bolt again, and record that reading.  Halfway between the two readings will be top dead center. 

[My427stang]

Good advice!

Especially because I seem to remember there was some confusion about the timing mark early in the build

[cobracammer]

Yea, I am pretty sure at this point that the TDC is incorrect.  I think the confusion was the fact that I have to use the timing light on the balancer from the passenger side down by the alternator.  I think I need to just slow down and redo the TDC.

I just ordered a 7" Ford FE timing tape from Jegs.  I also still have the piston stop that screws down into the spark plug hole.  Unfortunately, I am going to have to take the radiator, fans, and shroud back off to be able to get a breaker bar down to the balancer bolt.  I figure I can (like Jay stated before) turn the engine slowly one way until I hit the stop.  Then put a mark on the balancer then do the same in the opposite direction and put a mark.....  TDC should be the center point of those 2 marks....  then I can clean the balancer off and stick the timing tape aligning the TDC on the tape to my centerline mark.

Im thinking the larger the breaker bar, the easier it will be to turn?

Such a pain in the A$$ (oh..... I mean learning experience)  LOL

[ScotiaFE]

Hint: Take all the plugs out. It will make turning the engine over easier and the "feel" when you
come up on the stop.

[cobracammer]

Thanks Howie  :0)

[machoneman]

Im thinking the larger the breaker bar, the easier it will be to turn?

Yes, but then one must have the car high enough to clear the garage floor. A long handled 1/2 rachet (not cheap btw) may be in your future as it'll come in handy later on as well.

http://www.ebay.com/bhp/1-2-long-handle-ratchet

[cobracammer]

Yea, when I was assembling, I had the regular size 1/2 rachet.  I could turn the engine over (fully assembled), but it was hard with such little leverage.  So the plan is to remove the radiator, fans, shrouds and the power steering assembly (im going to leave the P/S all hooked up, but just disconnect from the block and remove the belt.  I am also going to loosen the belt on the alternator.

Then I am going to put the car back up on Jack stands, Front and back.

The Saleen has a plastic "Skid Plate" of sorts that blocks you from getting to the front of the engine from Below, so I will remove that as well.  From this point, I should have fairly good access to the crank pulley.  Plus, lying on my back, I should be able to pull Down and push up on a long handled 1/2 ratchet.  Like stated earlier (and I would have forgotten), I am going to remove all of the sparkplugs to make it easier to turn over.

With the Spark plug type piston stop installed, I will inch my way clockwise until it stops.  When it stops, I will make a mark on the Harmonic balancer (or make note of the degree mark).  Then I will turn the engine counter clockwise until it comes in contact with the piston stop.  At this point (as the timing marks do not go all the way around the balancer like some) I will make a mark.

TDC should be the centerline of these 2 marks.  I will clean the balancer the best I can all the way around and allow it to dry (I don't want the timing tape coming off)....  But if It should, I think it would be best for me to at the very least make a permanent scribe line at TDC on the balancer.  That way in the future if the timing tape comes off, at least I know where TDC is again and can go from there.

With the timing tape installed, I will make sure to roll the engine over until TDC is aligned with my timing pointer and then edge it ever so slightly to about 13 degrees BTDC.    Then on to the distributor.......

With the timing pointer at 13 degrees before TDC, I am going to take the distributor out all the way and readjust.....  the reason I am going to take it out all the way is because of interference while turning.  The MSD distributor has the hold down ears which contact the flange on the water neck (about 9'Oclock) then there is the water temp sensor for the FAST EFI (at about 10'Oclock) and then there is the temp sensor for the Saleen gauge cluster (the once in which I had to make a brass adapter to accept the Cylinder head temp sensor from the Modular engine).  This is at about 2 O'clock).  I need to find out where I have the most free movement of the distributor (uninterrupted) and then I will know where I can put my #1 plug wire.

Then it should be just a matter of putting the radiator and accessories back on and starting?

When I did get it running (and since my timing marks were off, it read 30 degreed before TDC) there was some smoke some from the crap on the headers (oil and paint)... and some coming out of the breather tubes on each head.   That's normal right?  My thought was it was the oil that lined the cylinder walls burning off?