Author Topic: 545" High Riser Build  (Read 184118 times)

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jayb

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545" High Riser Build
« on: October 09, 2011, 10:32:32 PM »
Back before the cammer bug bit me in 2007, I was in the process of collecting the parts and getting the machining operations done for an FE high riser project.  This engine used a Shelby block, Blue Thunder high riser heads that were max effort ported, and one of two potential intake manifolds:  a tunnel wedge intake for the high riser, and a sheet metal intake.  

For the sheet metal intake I started with a Dove tunnel wedge manifold, and cut the top off so I could weld on sheet metal runners.  At the time, this seemed a lot easier than trying to machine the plates necessary for the ports of the intake, with all the pushrod holes, the bottom plate connecting the two port plates together, etc.  At the time I only had a cheap Chinese copy of a Bridgeport in the shop, so I went ahead with modifying the Dove intake.  I quickly discovered the limitations of my 180 amp TIG welder, as it would constantly blow the breaker as I was attempting to weld the runners to the base.  I also found out the hard way that the base would warp severely due to the welding, and in order to get a good seal I ended up welding donuts around each port and machining the base in my mill to correct for the warpage.  Finally I got all done with this and leak checked the intake.  I found that all my welds were pretty good, but the Dove manifold base leaked like a sieve around the ports and into nearly all of the pushrod holes when the ports were pressurized.  Thorougly disgusted with the whole thing, I set the manifold on the shelf and got started on my first SOHC engine.

So here it is, four years later.  Things have changed.  My TIG welder has been sold, and I've upgraded to a 250 amp unit, with both Argon and Helium available to optimize aluminum welding.  I've also acquired a powder coating oven, which makes a great pre-heat oven for welding aluminum parts.  My Chinese vertical mill has been replaced by a Bridgeport, I've acquired a CNC machine.  And, I have a couple of SOHC sheet metal intake builds under my belt (although I still haven't got one optimized for performance).  After Drag Week was over my shop was a complete disaster, so first thing on the agenda was to get the place cleaned up.  As I started organizing the shop, I was drawn to the high riser stuff.  In addition to all the parts I had acquired before, I had also made a deal a couple years back with Barry R that netted me a Danny Bee belt drive for the cam.  Sure would be fun to start playing with all those toys again...

My Galaxie has been sitting engine-less for over a year, and I have a 510" SOHC that I was planning on putting together to go back into that car.  I had looked at this engine at the runup to Drag Week, and determined that it really needed pistons and boring before I put it back together.  Last weekend I tore down the short block on that engine, and on Monday this week took the block into my shop for the machine work.  Ordering the pistons was going to take around 6 weeks, and I didn't feel any pressing need to get the 585" SOHC out of my Shelby clone yet.  So, I decided I should put the parts on the shelf to use, and put the high riser engine together.

After doing an inventory of the parts, I cleaned up the block and got ready for assembly.  Here's a photo of the block ready to go:



Next I cleaned up and installed the crank.  This is a 4.500" stroke Scat crank that has been seriously lightened, with scalloped counterweights.  For comparison purposes, the 4.600" stroke crank in my 585" SOHC weighs 67 pounds, while this crank only weighs 51 pounds!  Here's some photos of the crank installed in the block, showing the extra counterweight machining:







When installing the side seals in the number 5 main cap, I used a different method this time than I normally use.  In most cases I coat the side seals with The Right Stuff and install them the normal way with the nails, but this time I decided to try using just sealer, and leave the side seals out.  When doing this, you can actually use the rubber side seals to force the sealer down into the seal cavity, to ensure that there are no air pockets.  You can tell you are having success when the sealer starts to come out between the #5 cap and the side of the block.  Here's a photo showing this:



Here's a photo of the pistons and rods that I have for this engine.  The rods are Crower billet rods with BBC rod journal sizes (to match the crank), and 6.700" length.  The pistons are 12:1 Diamonds, coated on the top and sides, and use the BBC .990" pin:



If you look closely at the connecting rod shoulder, you can see that the near shoulder in the photograph has been ground a little for clearance.  Since this is not an SOHC engine, there is the potential for interference between the rods and the cam lobes.  When I first dummied this engine together, rotating it through led to interference between the rod shoulder and a couple of the lobes on the cam.  As a result all the rods had to be ground a little, to keep them all the same weight, despite the fact that only two of the rods interfered with their associated cam lobes. 

One thing I kind of regret about this engine is the piston design.  When I first ordered these pistons back in 2006, I was not yet pushing the compression ratio as far as I normally do now with my street engines.  I was also not moving to a really small ring package.  These pistons, at 12:1, leave a little something on the table with respect to compression; especially with the good chamber in the Blue Thunder heads, and with the cam that I selected for this engine, I think I could have gone to 13:1 and still run around town on pump gas.  Also, the 1/16" - 1/16" - 3/16" ring package is standard tension and size, and that again is going to leave some power on the table for this engine.  I thought briefly about re-ordering the pistons, and going to the higher compression and a set of lower tension .043" - .043" - 3mm rings, but if I did that I'd have the SOHC stuff here by the time I got the new pistons, so I just decided to put it together with the parts I have.  I'm shooting for 800-850 HP with this engine, and I should be able to get there despite the 25-35 HP I'm leaving on the table with the pistons I've got.

The bore on this engine is 4.375", and I happen to have a tapered ring compressor for this bore size, so the short block went together pretty easily.  I also recently acquired a motorized piston ring grinder, with a dial indicator to determine how much material was taken off the rings during the operation.  Using this tool was a lot easier than the standard file-fit ring practice I've been using up to now, which involves a hand-cranked rotary file and holding the ring in place by hand.  Assembly was fast using these tools.  Here's a photo of a piston and rod assembly installed in the tapered ring compressor, and ready for installation in the block:



And here's a photo of the pistons installed in the block:



I was able to get all this work done in the evenings this week.  I had limited time over the weekend, but I decided to take the time I had and work on getting the Danny Bee belt drive installed.  This turned out to be a somewhat arduous task, and thank goodness for my lathe because without it I would have been stuck, but in the end I got the belt drive installed.  Here's a photo of all the belt drive pieces as they come out of the box:



After reading the instructions the first thing I wanted to do was to test fit the pullies on the crank and cam.  The cam pulley fit on the front of the cam with no trouble, but the crank pulley did not fit on the crank snout.  I took some measurements and found that the ID of the crank pulley was nearly 3 thousandths smaller than the crank snout.  The instructions said to take some 600 grit sandpaper and sand the crank snout down if the pulley didn't fit; what a joke!  No chance of that happening in any reasonable time frame.  Instead I chucked the pulley up in my lathe and very carefully took some material off the inside diameter until it was a snug fit over the crank snout.  However, when I pushed it on all the say, I encountered another problem; see the photo below:



The pulley would not fit all the way up against the flange of the crank; the seal surface was too long, and hit the flange before the body of the pulley bottomed against the crank.  Back to the lathe, I cut .080" off the end of the seal surface, and was then able to get the crank pulley slide properly into position.  After the successful test fit I pulled the pulley off the crank, and installed the two half moon keyways required by this crank.  These are Chivverlay pieces, but it is what Scat puts in all of their cranks, so that's what I had to use.

The Danny Bee belt drive also comes with a Torrington bearing thrust washer setup for the cam, with a machined thrust plate, very similar to the setup that Doug Garifo at Precision Oil Pumps sells.  I installed the cam in the block, and then installed the two thrust washers and the Torrington bearing into the thrust plate and bolted that into position.  Next I put the remaining two thrust washers and Torrington bearing on the cam pulley and installed that pulley onto the cam.  I checked endplay as specified in the directions, and found I had .007", which was with their recommended range.  With all this stuff test fitted in place, I pulled the cam pulley and the bearing and washers on that side, and installed the machined aluminum front cover that comes with the Danny Bee setup.    Here's a photo of the front of the block at this point:



Finally I installed the pulleys and the belt, and tensioned the belt according to the instructions.  Installing the cam pulley was a little tricky, because I had to line up the cam dowel without being able to see what I was doing, and also the thrust washers and Torrington bearing had to be kind of forced through the rubber seal, carefully, before the cam pulley would fit into place.  Finally after about an hour of screwing around I got this stuff put together; here's a photo:



With the timing belt setup installed, I temporarily installed the crank sleeve, harmonic balancer, the water pump, and the alternator and alternator bracket.  I wanted to see what I had to work with in terms of fabricating a timing pointer, because obviously with the Danny Bee setup a stock pointer wasn't going to work.  Next I installed a piston stop and temporary pointer so I could determine top dead center; see the photos below:





After setting the crank at top dead center, I figured out how I could machine a simple pointer that would bolt to the water pump and the alternator bracket.  All these little machining projects take time, but they are worth it in my opinion.  Took about an hour and a half to make up this little pointer; here's a photo, and also a picture of it installed on the engine:





Next I decided to mock up the valvetrain and degree the cam, and check piston to valve clearance.  First thing to do was to remove the valvesprings from cylinder 1 and replace them with checker springs.  The heads have been sitting on the shelf ready to go since 2007; they are the best flowing FE wedge heads I've ever had.  I had them check on two different flow benches, a Superflow SF-600 and a Superflow SF-1020.  On the SF-600 they flowed 401 cfm at .800" lift on the intake, and on the SF-1020 they flowed 390 cfm at .800".  Notably, on the SF-1020 the heads flowed better in the low range than they did on the SF-600.  Exhaust flow on both benches was in the 265 cfm range if I recall correctly.  Area under the curve from zero to .800" lift was nearly the same with both benches.  The heads use 2.300" intakes and 1.75" exhausts.  Here's some pictures of these heads:







If you look closely on the exhaust port side of the heads you can see an area that has been machined.  I did this, to take off some material on the head and allow for easier fitment of the headers in my Mach 1's engine compartment (which was where this engine was originally destined to go).  I shaved off about .070", which doesn't seem like much, but every little bit helps since the Blue Thunder heads have raised exhaust ports, making fitment in the engine compartment more difficult.

I installed the four head studs around cylinder 1, put on the Cometic head gasket for that side, and installed the heads with the checker springs on number 1; here's a photo:



The Blue Thunder heads are designed to be used with a custom T&D rocker arm setup, so I bolted that on next.  First step is to bolt on a plate that the rockers themselves in turn bolt to.  Here's a picture of the plate:



Next, you have to check to make sure that the rocker arm shaft is at the correct height with respect to the valve, and then space this plate up if necessary.  The T&D rockers come in pairs on their own small shaft, so that there are actually 8 different rocker shafts on the engine when everything is assembled.  In order to use the gauge that comes with the rockers to check the height of the shaft, the checker spring had to be removed from one valve and one of the rockers had to be removed from the shaft.  Here's a photo of the checker gauge, showing that the shaft needs to be raised around .200" in order to provide the correct rocker arm geometry:



T&D provides machined washers to use as spacers, so I installed them to the correct thickness under the plate and then reassembled the checker spring to the valve and the rocker arm that I had removed to the shaft.  Then, with my Smith Brothers pushrods in hand, I assembled the valvetrain for cylinder #1.  The lifters are Comp Cams roller lifters for an SBC; because of the width of the ports on the high riser heads, I needed an offset pushrod location, and it wasn't available with an FE lifter.  Here's a photo looking down the pushrods at the lifters; you can see that the intake lifter has the pushrod seat offset, while the exhaust lifter has it centered:



This matches up well with the T&D rockers, which feature an offset intake rocker arm.  However, I also have the option of using an offset lifter on the exhaust side, even though the exhaust rocker is not offset.  Here's a photo of the lifters where I've installed the offset exhaust lifter also:



Using two offset lifters instead of one gives me more room around the port on the exhaust side, and I think I may need that.  Here's a photo of the complete valvetrain assembly with this setup:



I ran out of time to degree the cam and do the piston to valve clearance check tonight, so I'll have to keep working on that next week.  I'll post an update on this project when I have more information and photos, probably in a week or two. 

« Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 12:00:10 AM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Barry_R

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #1 on: October 15, 2011, 05:52:14 AM »
Looks good Jay. 

Kinda wondered when you'd finally get around to using that stuff.  Takes some effort to get the Danny Bee set up and they provide zero instructions, but once done you're gonna love the darn thing - cam timing changes take 3 minutes.

jayb

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #2 on: October 15, 2011, 08:54:57 AM »
You're right Barry, I like it already.  I degreed the cam this week and had to move it about a degree and a half.  I was able to get to all the nuts on the cam drive sprocket just by rotating the crank, even though the water pump was installed, and after they were loose I just moved the crank and dialed the cam timing right in.  I was also able to get it exactly, not within a degree like I could with a Rollmaster indexable set.  And of course no disassembly to pull the crank sprocket.

Do you normally have to mess with the crank pulley on the Danny Bee setup to make it fit?  I was kind of figuring that I had to do that because of the Scat crank, and that maybe with a stock type crank it would have fit the way it was supposed to from the start.

Another question on that setup:  That black anodized circular piece that holds the cam seal and fits in the aluminum front cover seems to be stuck in place.  See the photo below for the part I'm talking about:



There are three small screws that look like they should hold this piece in place, but when I remove them the piece won't budge.  I'm thinking about doing some cam changes on the dyno when I get this engine ready to go, and it sure would be nice to just pull that plate to get the cam out.  Can you normally get that plate out with the front cover installed?  I'm thinking maybe I should pry on the thing a little...
« Last Edit: October 15, 2011, 09:14:56 AM by jayb »
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

Mario428

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #3 on: October 15, 2011, 01:53:36 PM »
Another question on that setup:  That black anodized circular piece that holds the cam seal and fits in the aluminum front cover seems to be stuck in place.  See the photo below for the part I'm talking about:



There are three small screws that look like they should hold this piece in place, but when I remove them the piece won't budge.  I'm thinking about doing some cam changes on the dyno when I get this engine ready to go, and it sure would be nice to just pull that plate to get the cam out.  Can you normally get that plate out with the front cover installed?  I'm thinking maybe I should pry on the thing a little...

Also looks like 3 tapped holes that might be used to jack the pc out of the cover. Betting the screws that hold it on fit in there and will go to bottom of hole and force it up

Joe-jdc

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #4 on: October 16, 2011, 07:37:43 AM »
There is an "O" ring on that center piece that is probably holding it in place.  Snug fit to prevent oil leaks. Joe-JDC.

WConley

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #5 on: October 17, 2011, 11:20:48 AM »
Love it Jay!  That engine is going to make very sweet music.

I'll be checking back frequently.  BTW I'm planning to build a new version of the spin test machine this winter (as if I don't already have enough to do!)  I'd like to coordinate with you and your schedule on the rocker project, if possible.

Once I'm committed to building the new machine, parts will be coming off the old one so it will be out of service!
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

jayb

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #6 on: October 17, 2011, 01:04:02 PM »
Sounds like I'd better get going again on that rocker project!  Let me try to get that back on the front burner this week, and I'll  have a time estimate for you, Bill...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

ToddK

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #7 on: October 17, 2011, 07:40:15 PM »
Hi Jay,

I'm building a similar type engine - once we get going on the build I will start a separate project thread.

I'm also using the BT high riser heads and have a question about the lifters you are using. You mention they are SBC lifters, what diameter bodies are they? Also, are the link bars SBC or do you need to have the FE link bars swapped? I have a set of Crower FE lifters I was planning to use, but I haven't checked how close the pushrod is to the intake port. So you have got me thinking if I may need offset lifters. If so, I know that Crower make offset SBC lifters in various diameter bodies, not sure about the link bar size or lifter height.

By the way, I also have a Danny Bee timing set I'm going to be using, so good to see what work may be required to get it to fit. I'm also planning on using an Aviad dry sump system, so it will be fun trying to get that all to fit. As I said, once we make some progress with it, I'll post more on it.

jayb

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #8 on: October 17, 2011, 08:38:52 PM »
Todd, you need to use the FE link bars and the SBC lifters with the larger body diameter.  They make them with the stock Ford body diameter for aftermarket Chevy blocks.

I'll be interested in seeing the details of your build, especially the dry sump setup.  I'm going to swap to a dry sump on my big SOHC engine, but I'm not sure yet if I'm going to go with Aviaid or Moroso components...
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

WConley

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #9 on: October 17, 2011, 11:29:07 PM »
Jay - Don't kill yourself on that rocker project.  I guess it depends on how soon you want that stuff tested.  I envision it would be a few months to get the machine built and sorted out.  I'm thinking I'll want to start around Thanksgiving, which would put the new machine in operation by the end of February.  If that works for ya, I'd be happy to make you the guinea pig!
A careful study of failure will yield the ingredients for success.

cdmbill2

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #10 on: October 19, 2011, 01:13:38 PM »
Great read as always. My Danny Bee unit on the 385 has a similar, but smaller diameter plate as yours and it comes out with a little persuasion and small curved point pry bar.

The bolts can get stuck, both the cam retaining plate and the larger access plate. I don't use lock-tite on them anymore, I use Vibra-tite which is typically used on brake caliper bolts. I had to weld bolts onto those little counter sunk bolt heads when it pull the motor apart. The Dougan's guy showed my a collection of similarly welded up bolts from several different belt drive set-ups so the issue more common than I would have thought.

Do check for push rod clearance alll the way through the cycle form the pushrod to the link bar stanoff on the lifter. With offset pushrod cups especially. I had to go to a short tie bar set-up 351C lifter on mine to cure that issue. I went to .904 diameter Isky's for the new build as you get a larger diameter wheel, .810 vs. .750 and it is over .100 wider than the normal wheel on a .874 lifter.

Something to think about for the next one.

jayb

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #11 on: October 19, 2011, 08:40:16 PM »
I've managed to get a little more work done on the 545" motor over the last few days.  Thanks to Mario, Joe, and Bill for their comments on the Danny Bee front cover and getting that plate off.  Joe was correct about the O-ring on the black plate helping to hold it in place, and Mario was correct about the three unused holes being threaded to help push the plate out of it's mounting position.  I just took the three screws that held the plate in place and screwed them into the other three threaded holes, and sure enough the plate eased right out as I tightened the screws.  Here's a photo of the front cover with the plate removed:



Looks like it will be a snap to change cams with this setup, provided I have a removable plate on the bottom of the intake that can be pulled off so the lifters can be removed.  I will make sure I design that into the sheet metal intake.

Right now the front of the engine is back together, and tonight I'm working on getting the heads installed.  As soon as that's done I should be able to start designing the port plates for the sheet metal intake manifold.

I also did the machine work on the 60-2 trigger wheel over the weekend.  I wanted it to fit concentrically on the ATI harmonic balancer, so first I machined a 1/8" thick donut on my lathe to fit inside the trigger wheel, and fit over the raised ring on the harmonic balancer.  After that I put the trigger wheel on my CNC machine, found the center of the hole, and drilled four sets of holes on a 3.200" diameter, to bolt the trigger wheel to the balancer and allow moving it in 30 degree increments, to change the position of the missing teeth with respect to the crank.  Here's a couple of pics:





I also sent the Cobra Jet valve covers I'm planning to use off for polishing, and finally ordered some more of those sight gauge tubes for oil pans, so when those items arrive here I can mock up the entire engine with the tunnel wedge intake to see how it will look.  I'll post another update on this project in a week or two.  Thanks again for all the comments!
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

plovett

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #12 on: October 22, 2011, 06:55:21 PM »
I don't know anything about belt cam drives.  And I've never had offset lifters or rockerarms. 

What I do know is those heads are full-on bad-ass.   Everything else is just details, IMO.  Can't wait to hear how it turns out.

paulie

machoneman

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #13 on: October 23, 2011, 06:02:29 AM »
That Scat crank is a work of art, for sure. Almost a shame to also cover up those fine looking rods & pistons too with an oil pan! Btw, who did the machining work on the crank?

Your offset lifters would play havoc with a cast intake. Will look forward to your how-to-make-a-sheet metal intake gets around this difficulty.

I do hope you at least 'clay' the other 7 holes to check for sufficient valve to piston clearances (radial fit too). 


Bob Maag

jayb

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Re: 545" High Riser Build
« Reply #14 on: October 23, 2011, 09:52:21 AM »
The crank came right from Scat that way, finished ground, scalloped pendulum counterweights, the whole works.  I've got a tunnel wedge intake for this engine that Joe Craine ported that I'm going to try to make fit with the offset rockers and lifters, so we'll see how that goes.    When doing the sheet metal intake I'm going to do the port plates first, so I should be able to bolt those on and confirm that they fit with the pushrods in place.  If I have to make adjustments I'll do it at that time, so it should be fairly easy to make the pushrods fit since I'll only be working with the plate at that point.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC