My 427 Build

[1967 XR7 GT]

I am finally getting some work done on a long neglected project, my 67 XR7 GT Mercury Cougar, car was park in 84 with a rod nock, I had picked up many years ago a 67 427 SO block to build to go in place of the 390, and I am finally getting around to doing it.

I pretty much want to stay away from chinese parts, so I picked up an early factory steel 427 crank for my build, it came with grooved mains which there is a little bearing issue, this particular crank comes with 2 additional counterweights off the center main, and I had the crank sent to Performance Crankshaft (Adney Brown) to get worked over. 

My side oiler block I just dropped off at Costa Mesa R&D Machine Shop, for a cleaning and initial check up, The block is currently std bore, and would prefer to stay as close as possible to that size.

This build is going to take a while, so I have decided to pull the 390 and throw a crank and a set of rods in to get it running, here are the current eng & car spec's:

 390
 428 SCJ Heads
 Offy Port a Sonic
 Cam: Old Greg Foreman-Gus Davis Grind .612" lift, Dur 312*-258@.050
 2 1/8" Hooker's
 Built C-6, 3,500 Stall
 Locker 4:57

The car was a blast and had less than 500 miles on the engine build before the rod went, probably a spun bearing ?  The rod went during a pass at the drag strip @ 7,000 rpm 2nd gear, with only a 5 quart pan and no oil restrictors in the heads, so I think the all the oil was in the valve covers and the rods were starved for oil ?  I left the headers un-corked and drove it home with the rod-nock.

[plovett]

Hi, you had talked to me about one of my 391 cranks a few months ago.   

As to your question, I do think your explanation for the rod failure makes sense.  5 quarts is not a lot for an FE and no restriction to the top end, combined with 7000 rpm could easily cause oil starvation in my opinion.  Heck, remember that Ford started putting an extra quart of oil in 428CJ's in '69 or '70 to prevent that.   And a stock CJ is not going to go anywhere near 7000 rpm, maybe 6000 rpm at  the very most.   I would suggest getting a deep sump Milodon pan for your next motor, 7-8 quarts of oil, and restricting oil at the rockers to some degree.

I'd like to ask you about your crank if you don't mind.  You said it has center counter weights.  I didn't know any factory cranks had center weights.  What's the story on that?  I remember my machinist extolling the virtues of center weights to me many years ago.

paulie

[jayb]

The car was a blast and had less than 500 miles on the engine build before the rod went, probably a spun bearing ?  The rod went during a pass at the drag strip @ 7,000 rpm 2nd gear, with only a 5 quart pan and no oil restrictors in the heads, so I think the all the oil was in the valve covers and the rods were starved for oil ?  I left the headers un-corked and drove it home with the rod-nock.

That makes perfect sense to me too.  On your new engine run 6 quarts, a windage tray, and restrictors in the heads.  Better yet, put in an 8 quart pan.

[1967 XR7 GT]

Hi paulie

 From what I was able to find out, this crank (C4AE 6303 G) came in the 64 427 HR and in the TBolts and is listed in the 427 7000 RPM Kits and was used as a Nascar Crank.

But I haven't found out anything about the 2 extra counter weights, I did talk to Adney after he received the crank and had a quick look and he said the counterweights could of been welded on after it was forged ? It's currently in the Crank Queue, so when it gets to my turn to get worked on maybe then he can tell if the counterweights were added or if it was forged that way ?

And as for the 391 crank maybe we can work out a deal, and I'll throw it in my 390, I am going to be putting a crank in it anyways, and I know I could have the one in it turned, but something tells me to replace it and the rods too..  I got screwed over on a set of FE rods I bought, they ended up having well over .040" side clearance, which is way too much, instead of eating their purchase price, since the outstanding seller isn't going to refund my money, I am going to fix them, I'll have one of the sides welded up on rods 1 thru 4 to take up the excess clearance between the pairs, and install them in my 390 after I work them over a bit.

Where are you at on your crank ?

Email me and we can discuss the FT crank





Hi Jay

It already has a windage tray, but I will keep the stock pan and run 6 quarts and restrict oil to the heads like you suggested on the 390, but I will get a 7 or 8 quart pan but it will go on the Side Oiler.

[hbstang]

richard,i see that you must be in orange county?i was at johns shop last week and he pointed out your 427 block.did you race your car at ocir?was your 390 built to run 7,000 rpm?dan.

[1967 XR7 GT]

Hi Dan



Yes I live in OC The couple of times I ran my car was at the Terminal Island Raceway arranged by Big Willie, who had made arrangements with some of the shipping companies to set up areas in the terminals for people to come and race, it was popular for as long as it lasted.

I don't think I intended for the motor to run to 7000 rpm, Ron didn't know much about the cam other than the basic specs but felt it would pull to 6000 no problem, it kinda on it's own decided it like going to 7000 and who was I to argue with it...   I thought the cam would be a little too much, but for $60 for a new cam from FPP, I said what the hell, and as it turns out I couldn't of been happier with the choice.

[cjshaker]

If those counterweights were welded on, they sure did a good job!

I thought I'd heard of specially made Nascar cranks made by Ford that had the two extra counterweights, but have never seen one personally. Is yours made for the wider Nascar rods, or stock width FE?

You didn't mention baffles on that 5 quart pan, but it certainly would help keep the oil where it belongs if it's a front sump pan. I can't imagine a front sumped FE pan on a car that pulls off the line hard that could keep the oil near the pick-up. Especially if the front end rises a bunch. They (the pan) even angle slightly rearward which would just make the oil move to the rear easier. It could have just starved by loading the upper with oil, or it may have all gone to the rear and exposed the pick-up. Having it happen in 2nd gear kind of makes me wonder about the latter. Jays video seemed to take a little bit of time before it began to pump the pan dry. Just a thought.

[1967 XR7 GT]

Hi Doug

I have not yet seen the crank other than the pic's, but wouldn't a wide jrl crank have an SK part number instead of the C4AE 6303 G number ?  I will find out what Adney Brown discovers when he works on it, and I am sure if he finds it's a wide jrl crank he will let me know, since it's already .020" on the rods and there are no wide jrl .020" bearings.  I think you may have the correct thinking,  in it's a specialty crank made for Nascar.  What about the 7000 rpm kits, did those cranks come with the extra counterweights, for smoother continuous 7000 rpm running ?

The pan had one big baffle with a hole in it for the oil pump pickup to go thru or is it considered a splash guard ?  Anyways what bothered me was because of the Windage Tray and 2nd gasket the pan was dropped at least a 1/4" away from the pickup, leaving oil in the bottom of the pan that would not be picked up, and I though about extending the pickup but never did...

[cjshaker]

I had only recently heard of the extra counterweight cranks for Nascar, so I'm just going by what I have heard. I would think if that were the case of them being specifically for Nascar then it would have an SK part number like the wide journal cranks. Or maybe the time frame puts them before the wide journal. I'm not sure when they came out....maybe '65 or '66? I learn all the time that there were some specialty parts made in short numbers. Probably during development stages of the 427 which seemed to last almost it's entire career.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see what your crank guy reports back.

[plovett]

Hi paulie

 From what I was able to find out, this crank (C4AE 6303 G) came in the 64 427 HR and in the TBolts and is listed in the 427 7000 RPM Kits and was used as a Nascar Crank.

But I haven't found out anything about the 2 extra counter weights, I did talk to Adney after he received the crank and had a quick look and he said the counterweights could of been welded on after it was forged ? It's currently in the Crank Queue, so when it gets to my turn to get worked on maybe then he can tell if the counterweights were added or if it was forged that way ?

And as for the 391 crank maybe we can work out a deal, and I'll throw it in my 390, I am going to be putting a crank in it anyways, and I know I could have the one in it turned, but something tells me to replace it and the rods too..  I got screwed over on a set of FE rods I bought, they ended up having well over .040" side clearance, which is way too much, instead of eating their purchase price, since the outstanding seller isn't going to refund my money, I am going to fix them, I'll have one of the sides welded up on rods 1 thru 4 to take up the excess clearance between the pairs, and install them in my 390 after I work them over a bit.

Where are you at on your crank ?

Email me and we can discuss the FT crank

Hey Richard!

My crank is still at Adney's place.  I called him last week to check on it.  No work done on it yet.  I told him not to worry about it for now.  He is busy and I don't need my crank back anytime soon.   I think he told he'd like to do two or more of the 391 stroker cranks at the same time.   

That's cool about your steel 427 crank.   I wonder HOW wide the journals are if it is the Nascar deal?  Is an aftermarket "BBC" rod wide enough to work without welding material on the crank or rods?  If my memory is correct Big Chrysler rods are wider yet?

I'll email ya about my other crank.

Also, Mildon has a stock replacement pan with a baffle built in.  I think this is it.   Just FYI.  It's over $100 cheaper than their deep FE pan.

http://www.jegs.com/i/Milodon/697/30740/10002/-1?parentProductId=745643

paulie

edit:  or you could just weld a baffle in to your stock pan.

[1967 XR7 GT]

I had found these links with some info on the crank. So apparently it is a factory crank with the extra counterweights. And it's not a wide jrl crank.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1065149011/Rare+crank

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1169509588/427+ford+steel+crank+part+%23+Help

The 390 with the stock pan, 6 quarts and the heads restricted I think will be fine after I extend the pickup to the bottom of the pan.

[1967 XR7 GT]

Just got back from the machine shop. Block is cleaned, magged and no cracks, it does have one sleeve, and the bore is about 4.241", so about .009" over. So I may have to go to a 4.250" bore, unless I want to spend for custom sized pistons.

It will now get line hone & decked & squared, and probably should do a sonic. And John said it would be no problem honing out to 4.250" from where it's at if I decide to go that size..

[1967 XR7 GT]

I picked up the makings of partial 390 short block project, to get the car running while I slowly build the 427. Block is a D4TE with a fresh .040" over bore and comes with a new set of Federal Mogul forged pistons, and it comes with a C4AE-B crank, the numbers says it's a 64 427 High performance cast iron crank ?, also with new rod, main & cam bearings and a partial set of new rings. There are a set of C7AE-B 3/8" re-sized rods with new bolts, that I am not sure about, and a few other odds & ends.   

I think this was the better option than going thru the rod nocking 390 in the car, which has the original 390 cast pistons, that I am not sure how long would last pulling 6 to 7,000 rpm on a regular basis ?

I am going to have to start sourcing odds and ends to put this motor together, a flex plate, balancer, balancer spacer, oil slinger, wind age tray, and so on. I've put a WTB add in the classifieds.

[1967 XR7 GT]

I just talked to Adney Brown about my crank shaft and he says the two center counter weights were added on. He thinks FORD back in the day went to a company called ATLAS and had them add the two additional counter weights.

Adney said he has not seen one of these cranks before, but the adding of the weights was top quality work.

I should be getting the crank back in Jan, I will post pics of the weights when I do. 

[1967 XR7 GT]

While I was waiting on my machine work, I took the block out and had it dipped.  Got it back today, prepped it and shot on some paint. Waiting to get the line hone done so the bearings can be installed and measured, then I can have the crank machined to the clearance I want.