Author Topic: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....  (Read 33986 times)

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Heo

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #30 on: June 07, 2014, 07:26:02 AM »
Lenz I had same problem on my Galaxie
I tock out the sender and exersiced the
arm back and fort to get rid of the oxidation
(that built up while it was not driven for many years)
in the variable resistor and now it working
fine



The defenition of a Gentleman, is a man that can play the accordion.But dont do it

My427stang

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #31 on: June 07, 2014, 09:43:03 AM »
Doug, just getting back here, sorry I missed that it wasn't pegging when grounded.  So..


1. It doesn't peg when grounded, so it isn't the sender (assuming it was a good connection and good ground)

2. With a test light connected and verified good ground, you should get a dim flashing.  If you don't it's either wiring/connection/printed circuit or a bad dash voltage regulator

3.  If possible follow the sender wire up and make sure it isn't pinched, melted or grounded, also look at bends that could show that it broke inside the insulation.  Just had an ABS system drive me crazy and that was what it turned out to be

4. With the dash off the Mustang, can you get a test light to the back of the gauge?  It should have the same flashing current, if not maybe remove the gauge and see if you can access its connections.  Once side of the gauge should have resistance to ground, the other should have the flashing source from the VR

5.  VR failures are relatively common as are printed circuit failures, new VRs are solid state vice mechanical so they last longer, so I am leaning that way

In the end, the simple circuit is 12V hot to VR, that voltage to sender which is a variable ground.  That's it.

Notice I am less concerned with resistance and more concerned with presence of 12V.  IMHO beyond an open circuit, resistance only determines accuracy of the gauge, in this case, we need to figure out why no power to the sender, which means a test light will be your friend

One last question, is the factory oil pressure gauge working?  If yes, then printed circuit or wiring problem for the fuel circuit, if no, odds are VR
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Ross
Bullock's Power Service, LLC
- 70 Fastback Mustang, 489 cid FE, Victor, SEFI, Erson SFT cam, TKO-600 5 speed, 4.11 9 inch.
- 71 F100 shortbed 4x4, 461 cid FE, headers, Victor Pro-flo EFI, Comp Custom HFT cam, 3.50 9 inch

Lenz

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #32 on: June 07, 2014, 08:18:01 PM »
Howie, Heo, thanks for the tips, much appreciated.  I'm gonna sidestep here, not my intent to pollute this thread with a separate issue.
Len Zielinski
'64 Galaxie 500 445 Toploader
'69 F100 300 stick

cjshaker

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #33 on: June 08, 2014, 02:23:46 AM »
It was the sender!!











Just kidding  ;D ;D ;D

I got it figured out. First, I want to thank everybody for trying to help me. Sometimes electrical issues can just be hard to isolate when multiple systems are involved in 40+ year old wiring. And the '69 and later cars are just more prone to problems when they got away from hard wiring circuits.

I did get it working. I had to go to Detroit Thursday and in between dodging Michigan potholes and dodging cars in roundabouts, the drive up and back gave me time to think about it. I was making it harder than it needed to be by second-guessing my findings. A couple notes....
1: Getting continuity and making the gauges work by running the batteries through the cluster chassis was merely a result of back-feeding through the regulator. I thought that may have been the case, but second guessed my findings. The Constant Voltage Regulator schematic clearly shows the connection to ground for the internal heater. That connection also allows voltage to flow back and into the regulator and through the internal switch and onward to the gauges. I should have just went with what I knew and saw but I made it much more difficult by second guessing myself. I realized this when I had some time to think about it.

2: After checking every connection, wire, gauge and ground I knew that left only a couple of options. The old Sherlock Holmes quote definitely applies here..."when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth". There were only 2 possibilities left. 1, the resistor feed wire was going bad and losing its ability to hold a load, or 2, the ONLY connection that I could not physically check while hooked up was faulty.....the main harness connector to the cluster.

I decided to physically jumper from the harness to each gauge. So I set the cluster in the middle and jumpered from the correct lead on the main harness connector to the gauge POWER feed connection on the PCB. That way it was going through the regulator as it's designed to do. Then I grounded each gauge individually.

Heres a couple shots of how I did that.







I was careful so that each jumper wire did not touch any other connector lead. And each one worked! YAY!! ;D ;D So then I ran a jumper from every gauge to ground simultaneously to see if the main harness' resistor feed wire would hold the load of all 3 gauges working at their highest reading. That places the highest load on the resistor wire feed and regulator that it would see in the real world. A bit of a warning here, you wouldn't want to hold them all straight to ground for any extended period or you run the risk of burning out the windings in the gauge, but a short grounding of each gauges feed wire at the sensor or sender will tell you if they are working properly. Heres a shot of my jumper wires on the back going to ground and the feed wire hooking to the PCB.



They all worked!! DOUBLE yay!! ;D ;D
So it HAD to be the main connector to the PCB. I was careful to clean both sides of the connections with polishing paper and made sure none of the connectors spring "tangs" were flattened. I even checked to make sure of imprinting on the PCB connections to make sure there was contact, which I showed a picture of earlier. But as it turns out, when I inspected them very closely, the imprints were a little faint on a few of the PCBs connectors. So I polished everything again and pried out slightly on all the main harness' connector tangs, making sure they had a good arch and spring to them. Then I made sure the PCB was centered perfectly on the housing and plugged in the main harness.....hit the key...and here was the result....



So just to make sure my sender was good, I pulled the ground off of my tank sender wire, hooked it back up to the sending unit on the tank....and here was the result....



Notice anything familiar? And yes, it does have a full tank of fuel :)

So I spent the next hour watching the fuel gauge as I jostled, shook and generally beat on the dash unit trying to simulate scared passengers shaking in the car ;D ;D It still worked. So I put everything back together finally. DONE!!

I have to say though, I think this winter or early next year I'm going to rid myself of that PCB and hardwire my cluster like the older cars were. '69 was the first year for the PCBs and they are a pain. You just don't have those problems with the earlier cars with individual wiring to each spot.

One last thing. Anybody with a '69-'73 Mustang knows how dim the dash lights are and how hard they are to see at night. I took the opportunity to try out an LED dash light kit, but only on my main clusters dash lights. Not the clock or the turn signals or anything else, because they are bright enough. I have to say, they made a BIG difference! They are MUCH easier to see, keep the same hue as the original lights, and aren't too bright as to overpower the overall look of the cluster. I really like them, although I had to fiddle quite a bit with the wires on the LEDs to make them get good contact, I really like them as an upgrade in the dash.

« Last Edit: June 08, 2014, 02:41:07 AM by cjshaker »
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

cjshaker

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #34 on: June 08, 2014, 02:45:52 AM »
Howie, Heo, thanks for the tips, much appreciated.  I'm gonna sidestep here, not my intent to pollute this thread with a separate issue.

Lenz, you're not polluting anything....unless you're driving a chevy ;)

There's no need to buy a sending unit just to test if it's bad or not. The test for a sending unit is easy, just run a wire from the sending units feed wire (at the tank) to ground and see if the gauge starts moving up. It should do it smoothly and moderately quick. If it does move, the sender is not doing it's job and is faulty. If the gauge does not move.....see above ;D
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

Lenz

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #35 on: June 08, 2014, 06:10:31 AM »
Thanks Doug, I'll put the test on my to do list :D.  Glad to hear you got it resolved, from what you describe retro-wiring to an older version sounds like it would give you some peace of mind.  From everything I've read including your disconnecting the battery when you aren't using the car certainly betrays a sort low confidence level in the current setup.  I'll go plus one on second guessing yourself too ???.  I've had times when I've charged right past what I knew to be true to complicate an issue.  The only way to get it right is to mentally backtrack until you get that "eureka!" moment.  So then, on to the next challenge..... ;D.
Len Zielinski
'64 Galaxie 500 445 Toploader
'69 F100 300 stick

jayb

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #36 on: June 08, 2014, 09:58:29 AM »
Great detective work, Doug, and glad you got it working!  I never did like the way Ford did those connectors on the 69 dash.  Even with the high quality connectors available in today's cars, if you talk to any automotive electrical engineer who works on wiring, they will still tell you that connectors are the primary failure points of most systems, and that they go out of their way to eliminate as many connectors as possible.
Jay Brown
- 1969 Mach 1, Drag Week 2005 Winner NA/BB, 511" FE (10.60s @ 129); Drag Week 2007 Runner-Up PA/BB, 490" Supercharged FE (9.35 @ 151)
- 1964 Ford Galaxie, Drag Week 2009 Winner Modified NA (9.50s @ 143), 585" SOHC
- 1969 Shelby Clone, Drag Week 2015 Winner Modified NA (Average 8.98 @ 149), 585" SOHC

   

mmason

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #37 on: June 08, 2014, 02:16:43 PM »
I still think it is the sender.
Michael Mason

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #38 on: June 08, 2014, 03:07:11 PM »
Me too.  ::)

Great stuff Doug.

cjshaker

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #39 on: June 08, 2014, 03:16:45 PM »
I still think it is the sender.

LOL! I was about ready to chuck the whole fuel gauge idea and go to the old Model T gauge system. A stick ;D
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

bn69stang

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #40 on: June 11, 2014, 04:42:37 PM »
So it was the sender huh , all that work to take the interior apart ....    lol   glad you got it , how many beer s did it take ?  .. Bud
69 mach 1 , 428 C J  Blue Oval Performance BBM heads -T@D rocker s- Blue thunder intake - Comp hydr roller - MSD ignition - FPA headers- Holley 850 hp double pumper - TKO 600 - 9 inch 3.89 Detroit Locker . ride tech coil over conversion - power rack @ pinoin steering - 13 inch drilled @ slotted 4 wheel disc brakes ..

cjshaker

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #41 on: June 11, 2014, 05:18:06 PM »
So it was the sender huh , all that work to take the interior apart ....    lol   glad you got it , how many beer s did it take ?  .. Bud

I really wish it had been the sender. It would have been diagnosed in about 3 minutes. On the plus side, I was wanting to change to LED dash bulbs and run a braided line to my oil pressure gauge anyway ::)

Actually I don't drink beer, so I just translated that into Tequila. Worked out pretty well...lol
Doug Smith


'69 R-code Mach 1, 427 MR, 2x4, Jerico, 4.30 Locker
'70 F-350 390
'55 Ford Customline 2dr
'37 Ford Coupe

bn69stang

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Re: Fuel gauge not working on my '69 Mach....
« Reply #42 on: June 11, 2014, 06:45:48 PM »
Glad you got it fixed , if your bored come over and help tear mine apart .. lol  Bud
69 mach 1 , 428 C J  Blue Oval Performance BBM heads -T@D rocker s- Blue thunder intake - Comp hydr roller - MSD ignition - FPA headers- Holley 850 hp double pumper - TKO 600 - 9 inch 3.89 Detroit Locker . ride tech coil over conversion - power rack @ pinoin steering - 13 inch drilled @ slotted 4 wheel disc brakes ..