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Messages - CaptCobrajet

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571
FE Technical Forum / Re: MSD 6AL and MSD 8594 dizzy questions
« on: September 07, 2015, 01:29:06 PM »
Used to be MSD #8920 Tach Adapter.  I bought one back in 1983 for my '67 Mustang factory tach.  Works good.  They used to list it for a "current triggered" tach.  If the '69 is the same as a '67, the 8920 should be right for you.  Last time I looked, they still use that number.

572
FE Technical Forum / Re: Oil accumulators
« on: September 07, 2015, 11:42:10 AM »
A accumulator only requires one line.  No "in" and "out".   A few years ago, I convinced Doug Garifo to make some filter adapters with a large 1/2" pipe thread in the passage that feeds the main galley...right next to the 1/4" pipe that picks up oil pressure.  Before that, we would drill the housing and weld a #10 fitting to the adapter.  From the beginning, I used only a Motorcraft filter BECAUSE there is a drain back valve, which I used/still use for a check valve to prevent backflowing the filter element.  It worked perfectly, and has worked perfectly for at least fifteen years on every FE we have put an accumulator on.  Wonderful product.  I prefer the three quart Moroso.  More is better.  BTW, BB...you are correct....25 psi in an empty 3 qt unit will hold 2.5 qts of oil with a 70-75 psi max engine oil pressure.  The compressed air does offset some of the capacity, and it varies depending on max oil pressure and initial air pressure in the empty accumulator.  I think it needs at least 20 psi air pressure with no oil in it.  It has to have enough force to do its job.  Using less air just to make it hold more oil will not be a good answer.  They absolutely work............no doubt about it.

573
FE Technical Forum / Re: Drag car A/F ratio and jetting question
« on: September 07, 2015, 11:20:03 AM »
I don't think you will be able to tell from a footbrake test.  It is likely in the transition there.  FWIW, an engine will generally 60' better if it is a little too fat on the starting line, before you go WOT.  I think I would start reading A/F after it goes into 2nd gear, and then all the way down track.  It will see the same rpm at the 2-3 shift that it sees on launch, but it will be in "slow motion" in high gear.

574
FE Technical Forum / Re: Edelbrock 60069 Heads
« on: August 05, 2015, 08:06:26 PM »
Sure does sound like an intake gasket sucking oil.  It could have done it when you ran it hard at the strip.....It could still show good vacuum on a guage. 

575
FE Technical Forum / Re: Its done
« on: July 31, 2015, 06:12:02 PM »
Looks great!! Hard to beat a slick wood deck V-drive with FE power!!!  Like RJP said, plug in and be careful.

576
Non-FE Discussion Forum / Re: New NHRA Pro Stock rules
« on: July 26, 2015, 10:21:00 AM »
I think they are trying to move slow enough to keep from running off the current 18 to 20 players with too much change all at once.  All of those teams have years of R&D, and piles of usable 500" parts.  A major change would rule out probably more than half of the ones currently running just from a cost standpoint.  They gotta do something, but the problem is deeper than Pro Stock.  They need to spark interest in the Stock, Super Stock, and Comp classes.  Those used to be the guys who worked their way into Pro Stock.  If the "base" is not healthy, less guys will migrate into Pro Stock.  It has been a 30 year slow decline.  It could come back.  They might do better to add a Pro category for the newer supercharged cars with OEM based vehicles and gradually the heavy hitters would migrate over there.  JMO.

577
FE Technical Forum / Re: Advice on 445 build
« on: July 17, 2015, 09:29:30 PM »
Definitely keep the RPM manifold for the range you will be running the engine, and cams that would work best.  The Victor will need lots of gear and LOTS of cam to propel a 4000 # car better than the RPM will.  When the Victor wakes up good, it will all be over.........Lots of ways to get where you are trying to go.  I am also in the 750-ish carb camp on a build like you need, and annular boosters.

578
FE Technical Forum / Re: Blair Patrick's latest 506" FE
« on: July 13, 2015, 11:22:50 AM »
From what I can tell, the diff on a modern FE iron casting and aluminium is about 30 hp.  The diff between an OEM block and aluminium is 15-20 hp.  We have done several engines that have identical or nearly identical parts, and those are the margins that show up, over and over.  The Ford OEM 427 is not as much better, but the Pond, Gen, BBM iron blocks are "more" better, just because of the more rigid cylinders.  As far as "in car" goes, you can chase a dyno figure, and an iron block will show more, but the power is just about exactly offset by the weight difference.  It takes about 30 horsepower to overcome the 150 lbs.  In a drag car, 150 lbs off the nose is ALWAYS better.  The chassis can be better optimized with less weight on the nose..........always.  I remember when we were allowed to replace the OEM seats in Super Stock with lightweight race seats.  Even at the same total weight, my car picked up about .03 in the 330 ft time from taking 80 lbs out of the middle of the car and relocating the weight to the rear.  That was in the middle of the car, and about half the diff in the iron and alum blocks.....

To Barry's point on aluminium....I totally agree on the growth. I always run the deck a little tighter, and also bump the static C/R a little, to allow for the growth.  The last Shelby block we did had .008 cold lash, and about .025 at running temps.  They definitely grow more.  As long as you know that, and allow for it, it is no problem.  Aluminium engines just need to be massaged a little different than the iron.

If you are traction-limited, or nose-heavy, the aluminium block offers added benefits to getting the car to hook and "work".  Small tires and/or leaf sprung Cal-Trac cars with big engines will like the benefits of the lighter block more than they like the power diff of the iron and the weight it puts on the front tires.  A tenth gained in the 330 ft is a "mile" in high gear..............

579
FE Technical Forum / Re: Blair Patrick's latest 506" FE
« on: July 12, 2015, 12:53:33 AM »
Not on that particular engine.  The car it is in is actually a Super Stock car.  We did that engine so the new owner could get some seat time and make some passes without wearing out a bunch of expensive and high maintenence "legal" parts.  It is not allowed to run a vac pump with the legal engine, and there were no brackets or provisions for mounting the pump or the separator, so we just ran pan-evacs on the stroker.  It is externally an identical twin to the 427.  There would probably be modest gains from a pump, but well placed pan evacs will pull on the crankcase also.  If it were an aluminium block, the pump is worthwhile, and needed, in my opinion.  Aluminium blocks, with all of the correct prep, just do not seal as well as iron.  The power vs. weight is just about a wash, although a vehicle will tend to work better on the track with an aluminium block due to the weight reduction on the front of the car.

580
FE Technical Forum / Re: Felony head vs Pond Head FE
« on: July 07, 2015, 10:31:19 AM »
Yeah, she knows it.  Too much Johnny Cash music has made me what I am, LOL. 8)

581
FE Technical Forum / Re: Felony head vs Pond Head FE
« on: July 07, 2015, 09:08:24 AM »
Unfortunately, engine builders that are discussing dyno results may just as well be discussing abortion, politics, or religion....LOL

What it all boils down to is that for us who are selling horsepower (and I'm saying it that way because most guys wanna see the dyno sheets), we always end up in conversations where our stuff is being compared to somebody else's stuff. 

When my stuff is 100 hp down to somebody else's stuff when the components are essentially the same, I wanna know if it's the way my stuff was measured, or if I'm just stupid.   If it's the way it's measured, there's not much I can do about that.  If it's because I'm stupid, then I need to learn more and try harder.  Nothing wrong with that.


I understand what you are saying Brent, but the error in your statement is the assumption that because two engines may have some of the same parts involved, that they are "essentially the same".   I use the Stock Eliminator engines as an example again here, because they are among the most efficient and groomed engines on planet earth.  Take two guys with a SBC 302..........same block, crank, same pistons, same rods, same heads, same intake, same cam lift, same carb.....all required by the rules to be the same.  Both engines perfectly legal.  One guy I know of can go at least 3 tenths of a second faster than ANY other human on this planet with a 302 Chevy.  His engine has to be about 60 hp better than the other offerings to do that, but it is "essentially the same" engine, and definitely the same raw materials. Lots of sharp cookies have tried their hand against his stuff.......for 45 years now, but one still stands out as THE best 302.  Lots of ways to score, and lots of ways to lose power that stack up, or not, when doing an engine.  I often hear the statement that there is "nothing in a shortblock", but there is.  There is a ton of difference in a good valve job, and the best one for the purpose.  It goes all through the engine.  I don't know what the numbers are supposed to be on street or street/strip strokers............I just do what I think "right" is, and go with it.  Everybody does not have the same definitions for good or right, and nobody is always "right".  Your engines are respectable, and your passion to do a good job is also evident.  If a person is interested and dedicated, as you seem to be, you will keep making your own stuff better than your last one.  As long as you see and know the improvement, and pass it on to your customers, it really don't matter what the rest of us swingers are doing in our little corners. 

582
FE Technical Forum / Re: Felony head vs Pond Head FE
« on: July 07, 2015, 07:13:06 AM »
2008, not 2007.  I took a little motor in 2007 and it was completely the wrong combo, and a pig in my opinion.  It was done by me, wrongly, and I failed miserably.    I don't give a shit about 50/50????  I also am not belittling anyones effort.  I just know the quality and potential of what I took in '08, and I know the quality and potential of what I can do if I had a budget to use some of the stuff we sell to some customers.  What I drug in there was not on the same planet with some of the better stuff we have, but time and money did not allow that.  I spent about ten days on that stuff, and you will not win that contest with a ten day effort. I have not done it anymore because I think it is a waste of my time to attempt it, knowing that I cannot devote the time it would take to win the thing.  If I enjoyed it, it would be different, but racing dynos is not my idea of racing.  That is kinda like racing flow benches.  If I had time to screw around with a dyno race, these days, I would put my car together and go to a racetrack.

Talking about time slips that don't lie...........serious racers who visit several tracks on a regular basis, and have weather stations, know exactly whether or not their stuff is better than it was "last time"..............right down to hundredths.  You can never judge gains or losses on one track, one day, with no consideration of the conditions.  What I should have maybe said was.......win lights don't lie.  If you race another car in a class with the same rules heads-up, and outrun that CAR by .05, and then three weeks later after you work on your junk for two weeks, you race that same car that was not worked on for two weeks and outrun it by .08 at another track....... that there would be an improvement, and a real world one.  Racers know how fast their competitors are.  Most who are serious at heads-up racing can tell you how much their competition has gained or lost from the last race just about as accurately as they can their own car.  One of the best yardsticks is the Stock Eliminator qualifying sheet.  Those guys measure themselves against their rivals at every race on "the sheet".

I used to race alot...........like twenty weekends a year, sometimes visiting the same tracks several times.  Racing is like golf.  If you have a good teacher........the more you play, the better you will get..........if you pay attention.  I could not race as much now as I did several years ago........I am not in the same positions I used to be to enable that, but the benefits from serious competitive racing are burned in the brain, and can be applied over a long period of time.  Most improvements seen on a dyno will show improvement on a track, but some will go the opposite direction.  It IS possible to test a combo, make GAINS on a dyno, and slow down on a racetrack.  It has always been like that, and it will always be.  Carb sizing, port cross section, runner length, header primary size and length, and collector changes are just a few examples of items that may or may not show positives both places.  Stuff like cubic inches and compression ratios, parasitic drag, etc. will ALWAYS show the same direction both places.  Lightweight internals and valves/valvetrain will NEVER show up on a dyno, but will ALWAYS show up on a dragstrip.

583
FE Technical Forum / Re: Felony head vs Pond Head FE
« on: July 06, 2015, 07:56:23 PM »
"Accurate" is relative. 

Dynos are a necessary evil.  To a builder, they're a way of making sure the engine doesn't come apart, it doesn't leak, doesn't smoke, carb is tuned, timing is right, etc.  It's also a great way to show incremental changes.   To the general public, it's a bragging right, and most guys just wanna see that peak hp number.

This is something I discuss with almost every other builder, including Barry, Keith, and Blair, because it's a "thorn in the side" to all of us. 

From what I've seen in the use of several engine dynos in the area, most do not read the same.  This was one of the factors behind the EMC...you get a bunch of guys on the same dyno, then all the guessing and variables can go away.   I'm sure Barry or Blair will tell you the same thing, but as a builder, you basically pick a dyno that you're familiar with and then stick with that one so you can have a way of comparing past/future builds.  Barry has his own.  Blair uses Jim Morgan's dyno.  I use Dale Meers' dyno.  That way, if I do a 482 with a specific cam/head/intake package, then change a cam on the next 482 while keeping the other variables the same, I can see what the difference is. 

I'm often concerned that the numbers I'm getting are "accurate".  The correction factor has a large part in the numbers and where the weather station is located has a large part in the numbers.  If the computer is getting STP from the intake air, it will show different numbers than if the computer is getting STP from the dyno room, where the engine is running and the headers are adding to ambient temperature.

On the dyno I use, it's typical to see correction factors anywhere from 1.06 to 1.1.  That's a 6-11% correction right off the bat, and it will vary based on whether I dyno in the winter, dyno in the summer, etc.   I've even taken the time to gather weather data independently and calculate the correction factor manually, just to compare to what the dyno is seeing.  Again, the general jist of it is that if I dyno that same engine in the winter or summer, the numbers should be the same because the computer should be correcting.

I have already made plans with Barry to dyno one of my engines here, then make some pulls up there.   I'm curious to see the difference as we often compare notes and commonly see the same horsepower between similar builds, but I tend to show more torque.  If I dyno here and then dyno there and show a lot less torque, then it will be more data for us to sift through and decipher.   To be brutally honest, we all want to know how we compare to each other.  I'll be the first one to raise my hand and say that I'm not as sharp as Blair,  but it would be nice to get us all on the same dyno one day to see what the difference actually is.
[quote/]

Thanks Brent for the compliment.......I really spend zero time wondering how my junk compares to anybody else.  We build and dyno alot of engines....about 99% FE engines, and I very rarely post any results on the forums any more.  Without fail, someone will make comments to suggest that the numbers I get are not real.  Fact one:  We do not, and have never purposefully blown up a dyno number (and it is easy to do).  Fact two:  I swept up a bunch of junk I had in the floor in 2008 and took it to Engine Masters.......a filled Ford 428 block, a pair of Dove heads I had laying here that I extensively worked, a Ford intake cast in 1963 that I worked on, and a 4150 carb (in a field of Dominators) and as a LUCKY coincidence I had the highest scoring Ford FE on the grounds.  The EMC dyno showed me 14 more HP than Morgan's on that engine.  Fact three:  I do not care what the dyno NUMBER or the flow bench NUMBER says, as long as the board at the end of the race track shows the right numbers, and the little light comes on when someone wins a heads-up race with an engine or parts of an engine from here.  Fact four:  I've been doing this stuff with FE engines for an honest 37 years, and I am 45 now..........I apply everything I have stumbled across, every day, and sometimes I see something I did not see yesterday that makes improvement.    When I went faster than anyone else in my classes, some said...oh, he's gotta be cheating...........funny, NHRA's most rigorous tech man of the time tore my junk apart numerous times and found nothing illegal.  Now I apply alot of what I learned over my life of this to the Nostalgia and street FE stuff, and poof!.........it's gotta be the dyno.  I went to the EMC and that told me all I needed to know.  I took substandard and outdated junk up there and had the highest scored FE..........that was not my dyno!  I spent way too much money for no gain on that.  If I spent 30-40K and a chunk of my life, I could easily make their top 5 with a Ford FE, but if you do not win, for whatever reason, it is a waste of time and money.

I would rather focus on continuous R&D, accurate COMPARISON TESTING, and feedback from customers,  to improve the product we sell.  I do not worry or care what the other guys do, or how they do it, but it does piss me off pretty good when some Joe Blo implies either directly or indirectly, that my "numbers" are inflated.  To those fellers I say....before you judge, pick any class running FE's heads-up and bring it on.  The race track does not lie.  The rest is bullshit and speculation.

584
FE Technical Forum / Re: Blair Patrick's latest 506" FE
« on: June 20, 2015, 09:06:35 PM »
You certainly could.  I'd want the C4.........from Joel's on Joy..........and the "right" converter.  It would be quite a bit less effort to make the automatic work.  It takes a level of clutch expertise to make that happen with a stick shift.  I'm an automatic guy by neccessity, but I know who to go to for a clutch, LOL.

585
FE Technical Forum / Re: 482 vs 496 fe
« on: June 13, 2015, 07:08:04 PM »
More ways to get there..........I have several 4.250 bore, 4.375 strokers that are also "496".  Everything else constant, it will make a little more torque  (+/- 15 lbs/ft)  than a 4.250, and would not be as happy above 6500 rpm as a 4.25 stroke, provided the same cam and cylinder head cross-section are used.  In street engines, you would probably never know much difference in the two.  The bigger bore/4.25 stroke 496 will probably make 15-20 more HP up top if peaks are 6000 to 6500, and the block has the integrity to go 4.310.   Going higher... more cylinder head would be a requirement to realize high rpm gains from the extra inches.

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