Advice on 445 build

[Aussie Rob]

A conrod bearing on my 390 has failed and it's .060 over now and is not a suitable starting point for stroker build and I don't want to spend any more money on what will never  be an engine that will suit my aim. Have found a standard bore block that should be suitable if it checks out ok. My aim is to spend plenty of time on the strip with occasional cruises in between. I have a 64 Gal f/back with 3.7 gears ,toploader, caltracs, 31 spline axles and 28 inch M/T et streets. The parts I will be using off the 390 are 60069 Eds with standard valves with some porting and blending matched to a RPM Performer, Harland Sharp needle rollers and I have been using a comp hyd roller D 230/236-L 521/529.Ineed advice on cam and compression selection [piston style choice] for the best combination for a heavy car. I am a bit disappointed with the roller lifters as they are a little noisey after only relatively low miles and would love to fit a solid flat tappet something like a comp 284b-8 if that would suit, but I am dead scared of wiping a lobe and having to tear it down again. I would like to be able to run low 12's consistanly or better if me and the suspension are good enough. I will upgrade the trans to a big in and change to a 3.9 or 4.11 as required. Ignition is msd mech advance and 6al box. Some estimates on tqe and hp with different combos would be appreciated. I will be in touch with Survival for assy supply as it will be ready to go. I forgot to add that the heads are 67cc.Thanks in advance, Rob.

[blykins]

Feel free to browse the dyno results on Jay's forum to get an idea of what you get with various combinations.  I think I listed a couple of engines there that would probably fit your bill. 

On the compression ratio, if it's gonna be something you're gonna drive a lot with the intention of running pump gas, I would aim for something around 10-10.5:1.  That's usually pretty safe with the hydraulic roller cams that are out there and if you're out somewhere that doesn't have 93-94 octane gas, you'd still be able to cruise happily.   

Nothing wrong with flat tappet cams, but they do require a break-in procedure.  With the right parts and oils, chances are that you'll not have any issues, but I can understand the desire to stay with a hydraulic roller.   The noise you were hearing could have been the lifters, but the camshaft lobe design can also lend towards making noise.   

[jayb]

Do you know how much the car weighs?  Just as a guess, I'm going to say 4400 pounds with you in it.  That means you will need 450-475 horsepower at the rear wheels to run in the low 12s.  That is probably around 550 flywheel horsepower.  It would be lots easier to get there with a roller cam than with a flat tappet.

Those hydraulic roller lifters shouldn't be making noise; if they are, make sure you inspect them very well when you tear down the engine.  Maybe go with a different brand; Morel seems to be very popular for hydraulic roller lifters.

Also, you might consider a different intake.  For what you are using the car for, a Victor would be a lot better, or, dare I say it, a tunnel ram 

The build described in the thread below would give you just about what you need.  It is a solid roller cam, though, not hydraulic.  But it really ran great, with basically stock Edelbrock heads:

http://fepower.net/simplemachinesforum/index.php?topic=2542.0

[blykins]

I made 530 hp and 580 lbft with a 445 inch engine, Barry's as cast heads and a Performer RPM out of the box.  10:1, with a 235/241 .600" lift hydraulic roller.  I feel that you could add a little compression, tad more duration, and a single plane intake as Jay suggested and meet your requirements.  A little extra gear wouldn't hurt either.

[fastback 427]

That heavy of a car would really like 4.30 or 4.56 gear, jmo. The jump from 3.70 to  4.56 will feel like 150 horse. Little much for highway cruising though.

[Nightmist66]

That heavy of a car would really like 4.30 or 4.56 gear, jmo. The jump from 3.70 to  4.56 will feel like 150 horse. Little much for highway cruising though.

Agreed. One of the biggest reasons I put the gear in my car, to get the weight moving. I had a 3.89 and liked it, but knew I could use more for the next motor build so I opted for a 4.33. I can definately tell a diff. between the two gears. I love the 4.33, I wouldn't go to a 4.56 for myself on the street unless it was really healthy. With my gear and a 27" ET Street Radial it puts rpm at 2950@55, 3200@60, and 3500@65 mph. A nice easy way to solve for any gear, tire size, speed, or rpm is with the calc. from Summit Racing. Here's the link.

http://www.summitracing.com/popup/calcsandtools/gear-ratio-calculator

[BH107]

If it's an original Galaxie toploader I would also recommend upgrading to a wide ratio gear set when you are upgrading the input shaft.

[Aussie Rob]

Thanks for the replies, I'll have to get to a weighbridge and get a weight.What is a safe rpm limit for a 445 given springs etc are set up right. Ihave a set of 930 -16 doubles and 26120 beehive if I keep the roller. What do I have to do to get more than .600 lift from the ED's.The trans was rebuilt about a year ago and is now a wide ratio just didn't think ahead far enough to use a big in.I'll have to stick with the RPM for the time being[$]But what CFM carb would you recommend. I'll go for 4.33 rear and I can get 98 ron fuel anywhere here it's what I use all the time. As usual your responses are very usefull, Thanks Rob.

[blykins]

With a hydraulic roller and "normal" parts, you'll see about 6000-6200 before you start to see issues.  I like using the beehives on hydraulic roller setups.  A Quickfuel Q-750 would be a nice match if you're gonna do a lot of street driving.  If you plan to get frisky, a Q-850 would be what I would use. 

[jayb]

The stroker reciprocating assembly is good for 7000 RPM, if you end up with valvetrain that will go that high...

[Barry_R]

At 67cc my normal dish piston would get you about 10.46 to 1 - - I would not go any higher on a heavy pump gas car.
A package around hydraulic roller with +/-6000 RPM peak should give you between 500 and 550 HP depending on heads and intake.  The Victor would peak higher, a Performer RPM might make a better midrange package in a 4000+ pound car.  I recently ran a QFT 780 vacuum sec and a QFT 830 mech seconday on very similar engines - surprising how close they were on the dyno.  Probably hang the 830 on the Victor or the 780 on the RPM - match the parts with the purpose.

[BigBlockFE]

Keith Craft like the smaller carb on that size also, when I talked to him, most people think the bigger carb is always better, interesting to see it is not the case...

[CaptCobrajet]

Definitely keep the RPM manifold for the range you will be running the engine, and cams that would work best.  The Victor will need lots of gear and LOTS of cam to propel a 4000 # car better than the RPM will.  When the Victor wakes up good, it will all be over.........Lots of ways to get where you are trying to go.  I am also in the 750-ish carb camp on a build like you need, and annular boosters.

[Aussie Rob]

Great advice you can't argue with the facts on the carb. I am running beehives on the heads now after you guys advised and they fixed the valve train problems I had. I will stick with a hyd roller and use them, I have them installed at 150 seat /375 open will that be ok for pressures once I check bind etc. What do you think of this grind it's a comp 236 and 242 with 636 and 634 lift 112 lobe sep
Would that work with my top end? I didn't mention I'm using fpa tri-y and have a 7 quart baffled sump and windage tray, restrictors are in the heads I'll do the oil mods as per Barry's book as I did on the old block

[blykins]

That's pretty close to the spring pressures I run with beehives.   The cam may be a little on the light side if you're using just mildly prepped Edelbrocks.  With Barry's as-cast heads (probably flow somewhere in the 290-ish range) a 235 @ .050" (around 290 seat) cam put me with a 5500 rpm peak.   A well prepped head will generally require less camshaft so it will just depend on how well your heads work.   I would personally run a little tighter LSA than a 112...

On the carb, it wouldn't hurt to try a larger carb if you're going to be racing, which is what I gathered from your intent on your first post.  In a lot of cases, you will gain some hp but streetability will suffer.   

If you use a Performer RPM, before you bolt the intake down, set the carb on and see if you can wing it wide open without it hitting.