FE Power Forums
FE Power Forums => Member Projects => Topic started by: fetorino on November 13, 2012, 11:27:51 PM
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I've been a member of some FE forums for years. I've always wanted to build a stroker 427 with Tunnelport heads. I've never seen a true high effort TP build posted. Maybe I missed it but I haven't seen anything with TP heads that screamed.
Most of you have seen Jays post about dyno days at his house with the 498 Blair built for me. It tells a story but not the whole story.
Three years ago I found a nice set of heads and intake that I bought from Rich Mastro. I found a nice used Pond Block. A couple years ago I found Blair Patrick a true gentleman and a savant with the FE.
I had several restrictions with my TP build. Like his stock class 352 that Jay posted and performed really well for what it is, Blair got stuck with many roadblocks to building max hp on my build.
My TP build does not represent a max effort TP from Blair. It was build first with durability in mind. I wanted several things and some of these "goals" fight against each other. I am building a street legal road racer. Yea than makes sense right?
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=10645&page=25
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/torino_con1-4.jpg)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/rsneardone.jpg)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/rsunderTor.jpg)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/rst2.jpg)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/rstubs.jpg)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/rstankstrap.jpg)
1. I wanted it to run on pump gas so I can drive it whenever I want.
2. I wanted it to be mild mannered enough to drive it on the street without hating it.
3. I wanted 650+ hp
4. I wanted 650+ hp with as broad and flat a powerband as possible
5. It needs to be able to run 20-30 min sessions on a road course.
6. I don't want to be tearing it down all the time
I bought the block, heads, intake, carb and oiling system.
Blair listened to what I wanted and said he could do what I wanted. He didn't force me into anything but educated me on the pros and cons of each choice. He built what I wanted not what he wanted me to build. In the end he nailed it and then some.
It isn't 13 to 1 so it's giving up a lot there.
The cam makes more than the power goal I originally wanted but is "small". The lift at the valve is only about .630 well under where max flow of the intake is but also it's easy on the valve train. It also appears to idle with authority but still pretty mild at a reasonable RPM.
The exhaust side of the head suffers from Fords mistake in design. Blair could have fixed it and it would make a lot more hp. I just didn't want to spend the extra $$. He said he could meet my hp goal without filing the floors and he was dead on.
We could have gone bigger on the bore and gained CI but it cleaned up at 4.255 so Blair said leave yourself room for the future we'll still make your hp goal.
All I can say is anything Blair said the motor would do it does. Hearing it on the dyno it just wants to keep running. Smooth as silk it never seems to labor, no hiccups, it just pulls. He brought a 4150 carb he said would run as well or better than my Dominator. I have no reason to think it wouldn't since the one he brought to Jay before did the same thing.
When I first contacted him he said "I like building these things and don't cost any more than a chevy guy" Man that was the truth. He didn't blink an eye about the idea of taking it to Jays dyno to prove what it would do.
I've spent the same or more on heads and machine work before but never got the level of performance. I've seen plenty of stories on forums of problems with parts and machine work. I think as a paying customer it is as important to tell people where they should go to get what they want.
Thanks Blair
(http://<img src="http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/RD498_12.jpg" alt="[linked image]">)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/th_GOPR0564-1.jpg) (http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/GOPR0564-1.mp4)
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That thing sounds awesome!
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For anyone not offended by wheels over 15" I added some photos of my Torino chassis. There are a multitude of events across the country for autocross top speed and road race style competition in musclecars. Hopefully 2014 I'll start showing up at some of them.
The focal point of the car is still the Tunnelport headed sideoiler as far as I'm concerned.
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I'd love to see the Torino, is SORC (http://www.sorcrace.com/) included in your future plans?
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I'd love to see the Torino, is SORC (http://www.sorcrace.com/) included in your future plans?
I sure hope so! I'd make the drive up to Arnold, NE just to watch his Torino spank a parking lot full of corvettes. ;D
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I'd love to see the Torino, is SORC (http://www.sorcrace.com/) included in your future plans?
It's on the bucket list.
I'll start with RTTC and Silver state classic and work my way East. ;D
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Rob, awesome build and superb workmanship! I really like the idea of doing car concept drawings and getting into detail about what you want with your suppliers. I think the great thing about Blair was that he listened to what you wanted, then lent his expertise to inform you about your choices and let you decide. When it was time to execute, he proceeded to exceed your expectations! Does Blair have access to a dyno locally or did you just want to run on Jay's dyno?
Btw I'm curious to know more about that 352 and the science behind those stock eliminator cars... Something you don't hear about too much.
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Blair has been using the same dyno for 10+ years I think. The field trip to Jay's was hatched for several reasons.
I think Jay was interested in a high effort TP build. I was interested in going to Jays, getting a chance to meet him after knowing him in this e-world for several years and Blair like to hit the open road. It all just worked out.
Good luck on getting info on the science behind stock eliminator cars. You're asking for trade secrets there. ;D
The heads have to be unported and so does the intake. They all have to be originally available pieces and the piston has to be stock or NHRA approved replacement. So it is an exercise in blueprinting, cam choice and carb, ignition and exhaust tuning.
You could beat on that 352 of Blair's for ever and probably not blow it up. Pretty neat piece for what it is for sure. Just shows you can make good hp with crappy parts (and some good parts sprinkled in) if you know what you are doing.
I'd love to see the Torino, is SORC (http://www.sorcrace.com/) included in your future plans?
I sure hope so! I'd make the drive up to Arnold, NE just to watch his Torino spank a parking lot full of corvettes. ;D
Knowbody wants that to happen more than me..... ;D
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Chassis is done :o
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/powder-1_zps8720485d.jpg)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/powder3_zps23c856f0.jpg)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/powder2-1_zps0652d941.jpg)
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Holy beefy A-Arms batman! Nice work there! Watts link or a pan-hard on the rear end?
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thats a pan hard bar , sweet set up, perfectly level at ride height .....
Blair is tops in my book .. the cool thing about Blair is that he doesn't have stage 1 , stage 2 and stage3 that everybody is supposed to "fit" into ... he listens to what you want power wise , intended use and expected budget and then suggest's the best way to get there with track proven results
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thats a pan hard bar , sweet set up, perfectly level at ride height .....
Blair is tops in my book .. the cool thing about Blair is that he doesn't have stage 1 , stage 2 and stage3 that everybody is supposed to "fit" into ... he listens to what you want power wise , intended use and expected budget and then suggest's the best way to get there with track proven results
Correct on both counts. Panhard bar and it's a long one frame rail to frame rail so the lateral deflection through the suspension travel is nil. The rear splined sway bar isn't installed in the rear photo but it's there also.
And Blair is the man no doubt about that.
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Very cool!
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Correct on both counts. Panhard bar and it's a long one frame rail to frame rail so the lateral deflection through the suspension travel is nil. The rear splined sway bar isn't installed in the rear photo but it's there also.
That should handle like a dream for sure. The craftsmanship is incredible. What brake setup are you going to be running?
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that style shock is to rigid ;D just saying
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That really looks fabulous, Rob. Beautiful work, and from all appearances very, very functional. You need to make a trip to Indy or Daytona and wring that thing out 8)
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that style shock is to rigid ;D just saying
But so cost effective ;D Once the car is assembled I will corner weigh it and order the shock and spring package. JJ @ JRI shocks will be my point man on helping me with my initial spring rate and shock valving choices. Still a long way to go till I get there. Now I have to get off my butt and do some real work on the car. Brakes, plumbing, wiring, accessory brackets, ext.
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Correct on both counts. Panhard bar and it's a long one frame rail to frame rail so the lateral deflection through the suspension travel is nil. The rear splined sway bar isn't installed in the rear photo but it's there also.
That should handle like a dream for sure. The craftsmanship is incredible. What brake setup are you going to be running?
Wilwood 6 piston billet narrow supelight radial mount calipers on 14" rotors in the front and 4 piston radial mount billet narrow superlight calipers with integrated parking brake and 14" rotors in the rear.
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That really looks fabulous, Rob. Beautiful work, and from all appearances very, very functional. You need to make a trip to Indy or Daytona and wring that thing out 8)
I'm starting out with some open track days at Buttonwillow, Fontana and Willow Springs and will run in the Silver State Classic.
At some point I will do a standing mile event. In between now and then I'm studying up on aero with a real focus on underbody stuff since I want the body to stay stock.
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Mario had asked me about the step by step in how the chassis was built. At this point I can only take credit for having the idea to build the car, finding the shop and stripping the car down and getting it to them. I made some design decisions along the way but the heavy lifting was done by the guys at the Roadster Shop. Well I am picking out all the parts and will be doing al the plumbing, wiring and final assembly work.
But building a chassis like this way over my head. :o
Cut out the old frame rails front and rear.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/image005_zps9a33341d.png)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/emptyshell_zpsf1065008.jpg)
Measure and make a template to cut some frame rail sides out of 10ga on your high dollar living room sized cnc cutting table.
Then take those sides and put them in a jig and mig weld the seams in 4" increments so they don't warp. They do it numbering 1-4 weld all the 1 sections then onto the 2 and so on. This gives you frame rail parts.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/framerails1_zps701398d1.jpg)
Then it starts looking like a frame on the table.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/frame2_zpsd896a570.jpg)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/frame3_zps84b1560d.jpg)
Then you test fit repeatedly
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/frame4_zps329a10bb.jpg)
Build a set of rear rails and add them into the equation. Oh and keep measuring.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/frame6_zps3922b2ce.jpg)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/frame8_zpsacb02e03.jpg)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/frame9_zps07c48a79.jpg)
Easy right?
The front crossmember is a modular design that they make in two widths. All the pickup points for the control arms, steering mounting points are fixed on the crossmember. This allows them to have all the suspension geometry sorted out and then plug it into any frame rails they build. For the rear they have an IRS with a 9" based third member $$$$$ but super trick and then they will build you a 4 link, 3 link or truck arm if you want for your solid axle. The 4 link on mine is a compromise for packaging ease and cost but they have run their 4 link geometry in plenty of events and it works well. I have a budget so I had to back away from my original plan of a custom 3 link or my day dreaming of their rear IRS.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IRS_zps715d85e2.jpg)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IRS2_zps2196437e.jpg)
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Wow!...Very nice...
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Yup it will be one sweet ride when complete, I love the chassis it is the bomb!
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dare I ask what they charged for the work ?
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Finally coming home
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/lowt_zps28c2a413.jpg)
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Very impressive! I really like the look of this car when it has all 4 tires under it. Very very nice! Ball park figures....what does it cost to have that frame built?
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It will look better when I get the sized rear tire on there. The rear will be a 345 30 19 which will be 2" taller than the one in the picture. The front tire will be about 1/2" taler than the current roller.
Are you sitting down? A chassis like that is like a cammer, Not cheap. Figure $15k+ depending on what car and what extras you may want. For an additional $7k they will do a 9inch based IRS that is good for 1000hp instead of the live axle.
Phil and Jeremy Gerber and their dad Neal are great people and real hot rodders. They will do anything from a minor project to a full blown car build. I watched a 61 Corvette they built go across the block at Barret Jackson for $360k
My stuff was small potatoes but they treated me great. Even brought my car to BJ when they came out to save me shipping.
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15k does not sound out of line , looks like a shit ton of work and they look to be top notch.. can't wait to see your car run ...
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I really like your frame under your torino i need to pick your brain sometime.
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I really like your frame under your torino i need to pick your brain sometime.
PM me anytime. If there is something I know, that you don't, I would be glad to share.
I did some work this weekend. Removed all the stock AC box and vents and started thinking about the postioning of my dry sump tank.
I also started mocking up the seating position.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/d44b05b4-340d-4850-88d7-27fc349e8dc0_zps67211762.jpg)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/seated_zpsd1906209.jpg)
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Very nice build Rob! I love those old cars. I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I've got a Stocker motor coming from Blair and my car is at the chassis shop getting a new chromoly cage etc... I also just took out the old heater case and removed all the factory wiring. As far as the wiring goes I'm going with RacePak's new Smartwire. I don't know if you've looked into this but its a pretty cool little deal. Everything is programable. I'm also going with a V300SD data logger from RP and it works hand in hand with the Smartwire. For example it will read your sensors coming through the data logger and say turn on your fan at 160* or whatever you program it at, turn it off a 100* etc... I'm going to run everything through it and program it accordingly. For example in a drag car application. I have a clutch switch and I'm going to have input switches for every gear. So I can tell it that when it see 1st gear input and the clutch input to activate the 2 step and shut off the fan for X amount of seconds and when it has 4th gear input to not enable the brake lights (so my competition doesn't see my game lol) Etc... Anyways, I didn't know if you already had something in mine but its worth going to RacePak's website and checking it out I think its a pretty cool little deal. It also does away with relays and fuses as its a solid state device. You can set amperage limits for a circuit and if it exceeds that it will shut it down and or retry for how ever many times you tell it to. Anyways I thought you might be interested in it.
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I am wiring my system from scratch as I always do. Kits are limited on options and if a circuit fails on a intergraded circuit it costs a huge bundle over a analog circuit. As far as data logging buy what you need in separate components rather than one board that has way more than you will ever use and the cost exceeds an engine or trans.
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Thanks for the advice Jon but I think RacePak has proven themselves over and over and over again. The only thing that will limit the ability of a Smartwire is the person programing it. As far as the data logging its self nobody make individual devices that log individual sensors by themselves and if they did the weight and clutter that would accompany it would be ridiculous compared to one dash that will display it all and one small box that weight about 1.lb. I can program the Smartwire to shut off the ignition and fuel system if oil pressure falls below x amount. If it catches that and save you an engine one time its paid for its self. Racing and running FE's to 7400 rpm's going on 20 years I've blown up a couple of them and I can tell you they aren't any cheaper to rebuild the second time around. What's a little extra insurance worth to you?
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The real limit to the Racepak stuff is that it uses (used to use?) a CANbus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CAN_bus)) variant, which is pretty limited for sensor resolution (it is a function of time slots at bus frequency). All sensors are 'smart' and share the bus, the more sensors, the faster your resolution per sensor drops off, as contention limits the amount of data that can be transmitted. In order to get the resolution back, you need to run a multiple bus setup. This is pretty old tech, in place for a long time on big rigs and many European cars to make maintenance and repair regimens more cost effective. Works very well for low data rate streams or very simple controllers.
For most peeps, CANbus works just peachy, but if you're needing analog to digital analysis at high resolution (bit 'depth' of resolution) and high frequency (Kilo or Mega Hertz) to uncover transitory events, you're pretty much out of luck with Racepak. For example, seeing clutch chatter by comparing crank sensor speed to trans input speed is pretty much impossible with the two magnet collar setup, but moving to the eight magnet setup, it's possible, if you have enough bus time to sample fast enough. A vibrating broken or loose sensor wire (or other intermittent connection) can be diagnosed with high frequency sampling, you can see the value shift quickly from a valid number to zero, and back. Insufficient frequency will often just show a wandering low average, as the sample often is not at zero but transiting between zero and a real value, which can cause you to chase a phantom tune. Wideband O2 sensors also sample much faster than is generally acknowledged (individual cylinder events can be distinguished), but the rise and fall of sensor values (response curves) are only visible with high frequency and high resolution sampling. For appropriate sampling choices, consider reading a bit on the Nyquist-Shannon sampling theorem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nyquist%E2%80%93Shannon_sampling_theorem)
As far as data acquisition and analysis technology is concerned, Racepak's best stuff is kinda old tech. It does offer a nice one stop shopping package, though, and may be quite appropriate for your application.
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Sample Rates:
V-Net: up to 100 per second
Analog: up to 1000 per second
Digital: RPM and switch contacts up to 100 per second
Digital: Timing intervals within 1/1000th of a second
Can you show me something that is better for an automotive application?
What I've used in the past was 100 per second sample rate on my driveshaft speed sensor and it was just a two magnet. With the RacePak I'll be using an eight magnet collars for better resolution. But if there is something better out there I'm all ears.
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Hmmmmm, this is an interesting subject. Just thinking out loud here. Let's take an example of an engine that redlines at 7000 RPM, with a 2.32 first gear in the trans, a 30" tall tire and 4.56 gears. First let's calculate driveshaft rotations per second in first gear. 7000 RPM is the same as 116.6 rotations per second for the engine, and with the 2.32 first gear the driveshaft will be rotating at 50.28 rotations per second.
Now think about the magnets on the driveshaft ring, and the spacing between the magnets. There is a magnetic sensor mounted on a bracket near the driveshaft, that will detect the position of those magnets. There is some angle of the driveshaft movement where the sensor will detect the magnet. Let's say for the sake of an example that this is 20 degrees of driveshaft rotation. This is 20/360 of the total driveshaft rotation, or 5.55% of each rotation. The 50.28 driveshaft revolutions per second means that each revolution will take 1/50.28, or .01988 seconds. 5.55% of .01988 seconds is 0.0011 seconds that the sensor has to pick up each magnet as it goes by. The sensor is easily capable of doing that; magnetic sensors are fast. But the Racepak setup can only transfer the data at .001 second intervals if I'm reading your specs correctly. So that means that it will barely have enough time to pick up the signal from the magnetic sensor as the magnet goes by.
In addition, Chad mentioned the Nyquist sampling criteria, which states that for a reliable signal you should have at least two samples for each signal that you are trying to measure. So that means you would need almost 2000 samples per second to guarantee an accurate measurement.
Of course, you are probably not gathering the data at 50 driveshaft revolutions per second. Your car is running from a standing start, and your driveshaft does not instantaneously accelerate to full speed. When you dump the clutch the RPM will drop somewhat, and clutch slip will also be a factor. So at the launch, which is probably where you are primarily interested in the data, the driveshaft will be going much slower than in the example I gave above. In that case I would guess that the Racepak setup will have plenty of resolution.
So, Kris, you will have to let us know how it all works 8)
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Hey Chad,
Here's a link to Autometer's new Data loggers and their best system "Pro System" is only 500hz which is half of what the RacePak is and they are also using the CAN bus system.
http://autometer.com/datasystems.aspx
I'm replacing this http://autometer.com/cat_data_tachdetail.aspx?pid=10 with the RacePak system and I've used it for about 10 years with a two magnetic collar and its only 100hz so I think the RacePak with a 1000Hz and an 8 mag collar should be a whole lot better.
Like Jay mentioned. 90% of what I'm looking at is in the first second of the run and the rest is at the gear changes which all take place in the first half of the track. After that the clutch is locked up and we're just on cruise control from that point on.
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Hey Chad,
Here's a link to Autometer's new Data loggers and their best system "Pro System" is only 500hz which is half of what the RacePak is and they are also using the CAN bus system.
http://autometer.com/datasystems.aspx
I'm replacing this http://autometer.com/cat_data_tachdetail.aspx?pid=10 with the RacePak system and I've used it for about 10 years with a two magnetic collar and its only 100hz so I think the RacePak with a 1000Hz and an 8 mag collar should be a whole lot better.
Like Jay mentioned. 90% of what I'm looking at is in the first second of the run and the rest is at the gear changes which all take place in the first half of the track. After that the clutch is locked up and we're just on cruise control from that point on.
If the Racepak or whatever satisfies your requirements and is at an acceptable price, then by all means use it. I was just trying to explain how you could be limited. Certainly my own bias was revealed, my apologies if you were insulted. I think you might have missed where I said 'It does offer a nice one stop shopping package, though, and may be quite appropriate for your application.'
Racepak may work fine... or Autometer, or any other brand. My main gripe with Racepak is how they are advertised as being the latestgreatestomfgdatawhutsit when they are not, and that the price tag is quite shocking for what you get. Personally if the price tag is going to be that high, I'd start with Pi http://www.veracitydata.com/NewFiles/PiProductLine.html (http://www.veracitydata.com/NewFiles/PiProductLine.html), but the packaging and setup may not be in line with what you expect. Perhaps piece your own together from parts at http://www.mccdaq.com/ (http://www.mccdaq.com/), but I'm guessing you want a packaged solution. Innovate also offers excellent products. Many product similarities exist between brands, simply because they're often rebranded reference designs at extremely different price points, just like many other electronic products.
Personally, I find the resolution of Racepak to be wanting, but I'm pretty damned picky, and accustomed to doing data analysis in the >=12 bit range, and 10KHz/channel and higher sampling rate. Seeing the rise and fall (and rate of change) of sensor values from nominal to maximum is useful to me. Knowing the event period and scale is an important part of deciding how to measure. High resolution does make data storage and transmission path considerations a part of the package, some el cheapo off the shelf stuff simply doesn't play along. The principle I live by is that you can always mathematically smooth or compress a data set, but you can't just 'imagine' where dips, spikes, or frequency changes may exist; you must measure them.
For example, my cousin and I are trying to sort the clutch on his 9000 RPM bracket car. The eight magnet driveshaft collar wasn't enough, so we're changing the sensor to a 60 tooth trigger wheel and moving it to the input shaft, to give us a better picture of the relationship between the flywheel and the input shaft when the clutch is released at the line. His 'box' (a used Pi Indycar piece from Menard) is quite capable of handling the data stream, where a Racepak would not. It's overkill, but the parts were on hand and offered the necessary resolution.
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Chad,
No worries here. Its going to take a whole lot more than that to insult me. lol I'm all ears. I've never heard of PI but looking at the links you posted I still don't see anything that's more than 1000hz unless I missed it.
What are the issues with your friends clutch? What clutch is he running?
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Chad,
No worries here. Its going to take a whole lot more than that to insult me. lol I'm all ears. I've never heard of PI but looking at the links you posted I still don't see anything that's more than 1000hz unless I missed it.
What are the issues with your friends clutch? What clutch is he running?
Pi Research is now Cosworth, news to me! Here's one that I thought was on that page... obviously I wasn't paying attention:
http://www.cosworth.com/products/motorsport/data-loggers/sigma-lightweight-systems/
Cousin has this ECU, modded a bit by Menard Racing:
http://www.cosworth.com/products/motorsport/control-systems/engine-control-units/pectel-sq6m/
There's also an external data logger of provenance unknown to me (guessing Pi also) that interfaces with the ECU.
The clutch is a 'hybrid' to put it politely. Car is a tube framed Opel, engine is a General Mayhem Ecoblecch, with a lightened aluminum SBC flywheel, Ram 8 inch billet clutch, DNE 5 speed, Dana 60 (5.13/spool) rear. I'll probably burn in hell for mentioning all that on this board... apologies for the hijack, folks.
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MSD makes individual components and how much info do you need with a carbureted car with a non computer controlled trans. If you have a injection system then that is all built in anyhow. Nitrous staging, boost retard and A/F can all be controlled and recorded though a good ignition control. I honestly do not see adding all the extra weight and electrical load helping at all. My philosophy is keep it simple, keep it light and keep it dependable. Putting a desktop computer and a football field of circuits is not going to make the car faster, proper design and tuning does that.
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Chad,
Below I copied their description of what looks to be their top of the line data logger and I still see 1khz sample rate and CAN technology being used here. Not to mention that phone number at the bottom lol where is that?
Data Loggers
01L-301000-L2
Omega L2
The Omega L2 Plus, Pro and Ultra range of upgradeable loggers are the latest addition to the Omega logger family, building on the success of the L2 platform in Formula Renault 2.0, World Series by Renault, TTA and as the specified FIA / ACO WEC scrutineering logger.
The Omega platform is exceptionally simple to use, and offers the user full configurability and control of analogue & digital inputs, logging table, alarms and qualifying mode for driver comparison. Configuration is via Cosworth's latest configuration software, Toolset, and all data is offloaded in Cosworth's market leading Toolbox analysis software.
Headline specifications include;
- Up to 16x 0-5V Analogue Inputs and 6x Digital Inputs
- Up to 2GB of logging memory, with fast offload via the onboard 100 BaseT Ethernet connection.
- Logging rates up to 1KHz
- Fully configurable "box-maths" - advanced on-board math capability with users able to configure channels to run on the box to calculate statistics and other calculations. For example;
o Calculation of accurate statistics - time in gear x, time on throttle, number of over revs etc.
o Brake Balance, Minimum Corner Speed and Maximum Straight Line Speed
o Complex alarms to minimise false occurrences - i.e. only flag a Low Pressure alarm after a number of instances and / or when any number of other conditions are true.
- Expandable - CAN nodes can be added for expanded I/O in test environments.
- Built-in accelerometers for track mapping & acceleration measurements and internal diagnostic channels for battery voltage and box temperature.
The L2 has reverse battery, over-voltage and load dump protection built in as standard, and sensor supply and signal ground pins are also protected against shorts to battery positive and negative. The enclosure for the unit is robust, offers Deutsch Autosport connectors and is environmentally rated to IP67.
Contact a representative if you are interested in purchasing this product.
> Request more information
> Call Us on +44 1954 253600
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The +44 is the country code for England. Makes sense if it is Cosworth...
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Yeah I was thinking the UK somewhere but didn't know for sure. Now all I can picture is the host off of Top Gear bashing all our cars.
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MSD makes individual components and how much info do you need with a carbureted car with a non computer controlled trans. If you have a injection system then that is all built in anyhow. Nitrous staging, boost retard and A/F can all be controlled and recorded though a good ignition control. I honestly do not see adding all the extra weight and electrical load helping at all. My philosophy is keep it simple, keep it light and keep it dependable. Putting a desktop computer and a football field of circuits is not going to make the car faster, proper design and tuning does that.
MSD will not log a clutch or driveshaft speed input, oil pressure, oil temp, water temp, shock travel, crank case vacuum, multiple 02's etc... There will not be extra weight as it will be lighter than having individual gauges for each item. The V300SD data logger weight 10 ounces and the Dash that is going to replace all the gauges including the tach weights about 1.lb. I don't know how much experience you have at racing but the more you can learn from each pass the better you are going to be in the end. Its all about knowledge and staying on top of your program. Proper design and tuning without actual data will not get you as far as proper design and tuning with accurate data. Hence the reason we use dyno's.
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Kris keep us in the loop on how the smartwire works out for you. Sounds like what i need myself.
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Very nice build Rob! I love those old cars. I'm kind of in the same boat as you. I've got a Stocker motor coming from Blair and my car is at the chassis shop getting a new chromoly cage etc... I also just took out the old heater case and removed all the factory wiring. As far as the wiring goes I'm going with RacePak's new Smartwire. I don't know if you've looked into this but its a pretty cool little deal. Everything is programable. I'm also going with a V300SD data logger from RP and it works hand in hand with the Smartwire. For example it will read your sensors coming through the data logger and say turn on your fan at 160* or whatever you program it at, turn it off a 100* etc... I'm going to run everything through it and program it accordingly. For example in a drag car application. I have a clutch switch and I'm going to have input switches for every gear. So I can tell it that when it see 1st gear input and the clutch input to activate the 2 step and shut off the fan for X amount of seconds and when it has 4th gear input to not enable the brake lights (so my competition doesn't see my game lol) Etc... Anyways, I didn't know if you already had something in mine but its worth going to RacePak's website and checking it out I think its a pretty cool little deal. It also does away with relays and fuses as its a solid state device. You can set amperage limits for a circuit and if it exceeds that it will shut it down and or retry for how ever many times you tell it to. Anyways I thought you might be interested in it.
Kris
Sounds like you have a nice project of your own. I have an ISIS multiplex wiring harness I am going to use. Very similar premise to the smartwire.
Rob
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I've been working on getting the steering column and shafts to the rack and pinion sorted out and determining the backspacing for my wheels to put the skinnys up front. I'll be ordering wheels next week.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/frnt285_zpsbc77b7c8.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/frnt285_zpsbc77b7c8.jpg.html)
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Also took some backspace measurements for the back half. Little 27" tall 345s back there.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/36143c37-c140-4e1e-88e3-42cb8831d8a2_zps598449dc.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/36143c37-c140-4e1e-88e3-42cb8831d8a2_zps598449dc.jpg.html)
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Rob, haven't seen that wheel mockup tool you're using... Can u tell us a little more about it? Thanks, Bruce
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It's a wheel fit tool. Year one sells them. It works pretty well but it is sorta spendy. I think I paid $275 for it. I figure after I don't botch the bs measurement on a $3k+ set of wheels the extra $$ will be worth it. Plus it should have some resale value.
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Found some more parts I needed to finish this project.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/T56_zps1900d614.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/T56_zps1900d614.jpg.html)
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Boy, wish I could "find" stuff like that. I keep looking around my garage, but all I keep finding is worn out junk :)
What has been done to that Tremac to get it to live up to the abuse? And what clutch are you going to use?
This build is awesome. I think road racing would be the most fun motorsport.. A huge thumbs up on your car. I can't wait to see some in-car video when it's done (hint hint ;) )
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Boy, wish I could "find" stuff like that. I keep looking around my garage, but all I keep finding is worn out junk :)
What has been done to that Tremac to get it to live up to the abuse? And what clutch are you going to use?
This build is awesome. I think road racing would be the most fun motorsport.. A huge thumbs up on your car. I can't wait to see some in-car video when it's done (hint hint ;) )
Well you will have to wait a while longer but I guarantee some in car video once I get it running. The Tremec it a TUET 11009 a T56 Magnum 6 speed. It is rated to 700 ft lbs out of the box. It is a variant of the 6060 Tremec used in the 600+ hp vipers and the big hp Shelby GT500s. The ZR1 Camaros and Vette use a version of the same transmission. It's a pretty stout piece and has much beter shifting manners than a TKP at high rpm.
I am going to run an AL flywheel and an RST dual dics clutch set up both of which I already have.
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My wheels arrived
First off let me say that Travis at Formula 43 was a huge help in putting this set together for me.
The wheels are Formula 43 RAD10 Clubsports. They no provision for centercaps and the I beam lightening on the spokes.
The fronts are 18x10.5 and the rears are 19x13s. I weighed them with my hanging hay scale and the fronts come in around 22 and the rears around 24.
They have a couple little custom touches to them. One of which is the lug pockets. They are opened up 6mm larger than a typical street wheel to expose the lugs more. This is done on a car that needs to get in and out of the pits quickly to aid in getting at the lugs. On mine it is more ascetic and a little less weight. I'm going to run some MSI NASCAR wheel studs and lugs so the large lug pockets will add to the racer look.
Formula43 builds wheels for race cars and their wheels are currently running on the Stevenson Camaro leading the GT class of the Rolex series. Despite their race heritage and quality their price is within reason.
My pictures don't do them justice.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2028_zpsef2b325a.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2028_zpsef2b325a.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2025_zpsa03f4d23.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2025_zpsa03f4d23.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2024_zpsc7ccc215.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2024_zpsc7ccc215.jpg.html)
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They look great, Rob. What kind of finish is on the wheels? Is that a paint, or an anodizing, or ??
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They look great, Rob. What kind of finish is on the wheels? Is that a paint, or an anodizing, or ??
Thanks Jay.
They are powder coated. Travis does offer anodizing as an option and I had considered it.
In discussing it with him the anodizing is tough but fades in harsh sunlight. Since I'm in CA and the car will spend a lot of time in the sun I opted for powder coating.
F43 powder coats in house so there quality control is good. I saw a few sets of their wheels at the COTA when I went to the Austin 400 and the finish all looked great even on used and abused race stuff.
The 285 35 18 and 345 30 19 Michelins Pilot SS should fit really nice on these.
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The anticipation of seeing this thing run is killing me. This is the coolest 'total car' project I've seen in a LONG time! That chassis work is just amazing.
I'm normally not a fan of big rims, but I think they are going to look perfect on this car. Low, lean and mean :)
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The anticipation of seeing this thing run is killing me. This is the coolest 'total car' project I've seen in a LONG time! That chassis work is just amazing.
I'm normally not a fan of big rims, but I think they are going to look perfect on this car. Low, lean and mean :)
Thanks for the kind words.
With the black wheels the wheel diameters won't stick out as much. To get a modern street tire rated over 150mph that is 27" tall , will clear 14" disc rotors and has 13" wide tread you pretty much need to go to the Viper sized rear tire.
The front tires are about a 1/2" bigger than the rollers I have on it in this picture and the rears will be 2" taller to fill the wheel well. This is on the ground at ride height. The roof is only 50" off the ground.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/waitinginAZ_zpse11bf56e.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/waitinginAZ_zpse11bf56e.jpg.html)
Don't mind the undersized drive hub in this photo. I'll be running the Speedway AL ones which are 3.06" that the hub centric wheels were cut for.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/rrrad_zpsddcd6c89.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/rrrad_zpsddcd6c89.jpg.html)
I was working on building up my rotors and safety wiring them the other day.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_1966_zpsb60a6c4e.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_1966_zpsb60a6c4e.jpg.html)
These are the rear 4 piston brakes the wheels have to clear. The fronts have the same sized rotors but they are floating and have 6 piston calipers.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/871b3ee9-8682-4d83-a22f-49182ec8bd51_zpse80c8b78.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/871b3ee9-8682-4d83-a22f-49182ec8bd51_zpse80c8b78.jpg.html)
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Today I grabbed my correct drive plates and dust covers from Speedway Engineering. That place is like a candy store.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2035_zps50c59a40.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2035_zps50c59a40.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2032_zps3e54d430.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2032_zps3e54d430.jpg.html)
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Very nice attention to detail on that safety wiring. You have it ran correctly for tension in the right direction. Seen a few examples where people didn't do it correctly.
Is that "AL" for aluminum, or just a designation? They look like steel. I wouldn't think aluminum would be good for a drive hub because of the lateral forces in corners.
It would be killing me not to hear that engine run. I think I would be starting it up every few days just to hear it run :)
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Very nice attention to detail on that safety wiring. You have it ran correctly for tension in the right direction. Seen a few examples where people didn't do it correctly.
Is that "AL" for aluminum, or just a designation? They look like steel. I wouldn't think aluminum would be good for a drive hub because of the lateral forces in corners.
It would be killing me not to hear that engine run. I think I would be starting it up every few days just to hear it run :)
Thanks for the props on the safety wire job.
As for the drive plates yes they are aluminum. Yes the Aluminum makes them a wear item that has to be replaced. Kenny at Speedway told me for a street car you should run steel if you plan on a lot of miles. The AL is a significant weight savings. I may pick up a set of steel plates to run on non track days.
Bottom line is to inspect, clean and grease them regularly. It's pretty easy. Wheel off two allen head bolts remove the plate. Even a cave man could do it.
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Even a cave man could do it.
That's funny :)
I love the simplicity of that design. Lots of strength in a full floating design. And when you consider it a wear item, it's all good then...lol
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I got my wheels, studs and Lugs and am ready to take my car down to some shop space I have and drop the drivetrain in and start on all the little things that will keep me busy for months.
The picture is bad and the car is dirty but you get the idea.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/7a8cf959-82c5-48de-9b04-dd5b74f9a5db_zpsf771de87.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/7a8cf959-82c5-48de-9b04-dd5b74f9a5db_zpsf771de87.jpg.html)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/ddd97376-bdd2-477b-84a0-ad2560fbf3ca_zpscf4a0a97.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/ddd97376-bdd2-477b-84a0-ad2560fbf3ca_zpscf4a0a97.jpg.html)
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Very nice Rob. Looking at the jack and all that wood; how much fanagaling does it take to get that puppy on the trailer? ;)
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Very nice Rob. Looking at the jack and all that wood; how much fanagaling does it take to get that puppy on the trailer? ;)
Rolls right on and off. I was swapping the front hubs and all the wheel studs so I had it on blocks. Now I'm taking it over to a shop where I have some space to work and will start getting ti together.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/trailerqueen_zps4d8a6b9c.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/trailerqueen_zps4d8a6b9c.jpg.html)
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One of the major benefits to a thread like this is to be able to see at least a little bit of the planning behind what you're doing. I intend to do some copying!!
KS
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One of the major benefits to a thread like this is to be able to see at least a little bit of the planning behind what you're doing. I intend to do some copying!!
KS
E-mail me anytime you want the low down on my adventure.
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Rob%20FE%2069%20Torino/IMG_6153_zps0bf30be4.jpg) (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/Fab50Three/media/Rob%20FE%2069%20Torino/IMG_6153_zps0bf30be4.jpg.html)
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Rob%20FE%2069%20Torino/IMG_6151_zps82b75ce7.jpg) (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/Fab50Three/media/Rob%20FE%2069%20Torino/IMG_6151_zps82b75ce7.jpg.html)
(http://i1113.photobucket.com/albums/k514/Fab50Three/Rob%20FE%2069%20Torino/IMG_6152_zps4ee27c8b.jpg) (http://s1113.photobucket.com/user/Fab50Three/media/Rob%20FE%2069%20Torino/IMG_6152_zps4ee27c8b.jpg.html)
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The awesome is really coming together there Rob, looking very good!
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Reminds me of a saying that used to be used on a lot of T shirts; "Evil, Wicked, Mean and Nasty!"
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Reminds me of a saying that used to be used on a lot of T shirts; "Evil, Wicked, Mean and Nasty!"
Thanks. That is the reaction I am looking for.
The awesome is really coming together there Rob, looking very good!
More to come. The upcoming months will reveal some other neat ricks on this car.
http://www.lateral-g.net/forums/showthread.php4?t=10645&page=150
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My apologies to the purists but these shocktowers don't do anything but add weight these days.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2306_zps9ca7e236.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2306_zps9ca7e236.jpg.html)
I'm getting ready to drop the TP and 6 speed in there.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2304_zpscd43e0b8.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2304_zpscd43e0b8.jpg.html)
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Cool, you can upgrade to an SOHC at any time in the future ;D
IMO shock towers were NOT one of Ford's better ideas...
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Cool, you can upgrade to an SOHC at any time in the future ;D
IMO shock towers were NOT one of Ford's better ideas...
OH I'd love to build a SOHC one day. I don't know if I'd call anything an upgrade unless it was another BP Tunneport ;D
Of course a SOHC would fit no problem in the "stock" location, I said stock referring to this car, hilarious... I am planning a little firewall modification so the room between the footwells may be my biggest concern....... if you get where I'm going.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2302_zps4a2bb91b.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2302_zps4a2bb91b.jpg.html)
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Are you also planning to move the engine back from the stock location?
Not your year, but I did just read a few months ago of a Ford Fairlane/Torino NASCAR racer in '67 moving the 396 FE (de-stroked 427, per weight/CID rules then) back about a 1/2 a foot (no kidding) for better short-track handling. Amazingly NASCAR's inspectors let it run! Banjo Matthews or Holly Farms (sponsor) if IIRC.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/thread/1299857547/1299990069/FE+396+NASCAR+racing+motor+(+video)+and+some+questions
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QUESTION---
Are those rotors oxided, or are they carbon fibre?
KS
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Are you also planning to move the engine back from the stock location?
Yes I am placing the motor back 6+ inches.
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QUESTION---
Are those rotors oxided, or are they carbon fibre?
KS
I wish my rotors were ceramic but they are not they are Wilwoods e-coat.
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More cutting
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/firewallcut_zpsd5a22d65.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/firewallcut_zpsd5a22d65.jpg.html)
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/firewallcut2_zps4a74bdef.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/firewallcut2_zps4a74bdef.jpg.html)
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I finished cutting out my firewall and tunnel for the motor set back project. Then brought my motor down to the shop and for the hell of it weighed it on one of my intercomp scales.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2331_zps278ddd21.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2331_zps278ddd21.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2328_zps56a56882.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2328_zps56a56882.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2329_zpsbee48189.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2329_zpsbee48189.jpg.html)
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Who says FEs are heavy LOL! Nothing like an aluminum engine...
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Dang, that is light. Just the weight difference going from an iron block to an aluminum would make a road-racer have to start from square one in tuning the suspension I would think. Good thing you're already there :D
And those exhaust ports certainly have been "heat treated" by Blair...lol
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Just 20 LBS more than a 4 cyl Volvo
Iron engine :o
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Who says FEs are heavy LOL! Nothing like an aluminum engine...
Jay
Remember when you weighed my single 4 TP intake you said it was the lightest FE intake you had seen to date. If I ran AL heads I could shave another 30lbs? ;)
Dang, that is light. Just the weight difference going from an iron block to an aluminum would make a road-racer have to start from square one in tuning the suspension I would think. Good thing you're already there :D
And those exhaust ports certainly have been "heat treated" by Blair...lol
Doug
The heads are cast iron and clear coated after a fresh peeen and bake to look like AL. But when you do three days on the dyno the clear coat takes a beating. ;D
As far as square one on teh suspension you got that right.
You start with the king pin inclination of the spindle and amount of front suspension travel along with the camber and castor gain figures. Then you can come up with some static castor and camber settings to try and keep the tires flat under load in dive. We will put my car on my intercomp corner scales and come up with total weight and weight bias figures. The weight combined with the front roll center and estimated CG (along with the instant center and perceived optimal rear roll center since it is adjustable) will let a guy smarter than me with some software figure the total roll stiffness I need front and rear. From there we'll get spring and roll bar rates to achieve the total roll stiffness needed and end up with a base tune. The same guy speccing my springs and bars will set up the valving on the shocks. The shocks will be a huge part of this all working correctly.
Just like building a motor the combo is the key and there are a bunch of variables. Easy right? ;)
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You start with the king pin inclination of the spindle and amount of front suspension travel along with the camber and castor gain figures. Then you can come up with some static castor and camber settings to try and keep the tires flat under load in dive. We will put my car on my intercomp corner scales and come up with total weight and weight bias figures. The weight combined with the front roll center and estimated CG (along with the instant center and perceived optimal rear roll center since it is adjustable) will let a guy smarter than me with some software figure the total roll stiffness I need front and rear. From there we'll get spring and roll bar rates to achieve the total roll stiffness needed and end up with a base tune. The same guy speccing my springs and bars will set up the valving on the shocks. The shocks will be a huge part of this all working correctly.
Just like building a motor the combo is the key and there are a bunch of variables. Easy right? ;)
Ah yes, it all makes sense now! :o
I studied suspension geometry for a few days some years ago when I considered building a road racer to have fun with, and quickly came to the conclusion that.....why would I deprive those experts from making a living to support their families by trying to learn their trade and doing it myself? ;D ;D
I quickly realized that it was something that took years to learn. It really is an art when done correctly!!
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Did a quick first test fit tonight
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2344_zps25e15145.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2344_zps25e15145.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2351_zps45cbe279.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2351_zps45cbe279.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2350_zpsb22655ed.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2350_zpsb22655ed.jpg.html)
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It really isn't good for engines to sit. You should loan me that thing until you're ready for it. I'll keep it oiled up for ya ;)
I think I'd be notching that dang cowl too. First time I went to remove a valve cover, I'd be cussing that thing.....after locating the dropped bolts....
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It really isn't good for engines to sit. You should loan me that thing until you're ready for it. I'll keep it oiled up for ya ;)
I think I'd be notching that dang cowl too. First time I went to remove a valve cover, I'd be cussing that thing.....after locating the dropped bolts....
Thanks for offering to keep the engine warm but I think it will be ok. ;D
I am sneaking up on the cutting. I do want some more clearance to be able to adjust the valse without pulling the motor.
My Alston Chassisworks front plate arrived and passed inspection.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2385_zps44c05f49.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2385_zps44c05f49.jpg.html)
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Are you doing a mid-plate as well?
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Are you doing a mid-plate as well?
Bob
Yes I am welding ears onto the quicktime blowproof shield to act as a midplate and running a rubber trans mount.
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As I kept trimming the firewall further and further to give myself clearance to set the motor down and back it became apparent that the stock hanging pedals weren't going to cut it.
Here was the first test fit with a minimal cut. In this picture the motor was still .25" off center and you can see I have no clearance between the VC and remaining firewall. You can also see how close the 4 bolts that hold the stock pedal hanger are to the VC. I ended cutting the firewall to the other side of the mounting holes so no more stock pedal hanger.:headscratch:
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/9bb036b3-1467-45f6-b755-d0c1217bce33_zps581fea87.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/9bb036b3-1467-45f6-b755-d0c1217bce33_zps581fea87.jpg.html)
Earlier in the week my buddy who's shop my car is at, Brett, had pointed out I had plenty of room for a floor pedal set up. I agreed with him but my concern was the header collectors need to go somewhere and that path would be down near the footwell. But after cutting the firewall to where I wanted it and measuring it was clear I have a lot more flexibility with fitting the floor pedals than a hanging set. :hairpullout:
So I went shopping.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2387_zpsd355f5cb.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2387_zpsd355f5cb.jpg.html)
Although this is a 600 series Tilton Pedal set up it has the 900 series bracket to run the Series 77 master cylinders. The mounting of these is supposed to eliminate binding in pedal travel and the migrating of the bias due to some of the binding.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2389_zpsc3ab33ba.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2389_zpsc3ab33ba.jpg.html)
Having put the motor in the chassis where I want it to sit it is also clear that a front plate and midplate set up would make sense for mounting the motor.
The front plate will also give me a nice plane to use for the PS pump and alt mounting brackets that don't yet exist. Since I have a Peterson stackable mandrel drive I can use whatever existing PS or Alt brackets I like the look of and tailor the belt alignment via the position of the pulleys on the Peterson Mandrel. Those parts arrived long time ago so here is a reminder what they look like. This is better than digging through the wrecking yard this thread sorta is.:D
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_1699_zps598da9d8.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_1699_zps598da9d8.jpg.html)
The Midplate will be a custom piece that Brett will fab. The front plate I got from Chris Alston Chassisworks. It has plenty of extra material I will trim off once all the final mounting positions of the motor and accessories are determined. As you can see in the photo my chief parts guy checked it all out and told me it was good to go.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2385_zps44c05f49.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2385_zps44c05f49.jpg.html)
:cheers:
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Closer
I think I'm going to get some .375 6061 AL once I work out my final motor plate design and build it using that. The .250 just doesn't make me feel warm and fuzzy.
(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2403_zps2446987a.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2403_zps2446987a.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2408_zps9fa0dfee.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2408_zps9fa0dfee.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2404_zps6fac3d6d.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2404_zps6fac3d6d.jpg.html)
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Looking good.
I ended up using 10mm Al plate for the front motor plate, just 0.5mm thicker than .375" plate. I had bought a plate from Comp Engineering, but I didn't like the look of it. The front plate needs to be strong. Are you also using a mid plate?
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Yes I'm going to run a midplate and a rubber mount on my transmission tailpiece.
The NASCAR boys build their plates out of .375 so either that or the 10mm would be the call.
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(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2418_zpseec3b28d.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2418_zpseec3b28d.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2420_zps702cd71c.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2420_zps702cd71c.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2421_zps6efe18d2.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2421_zps6efe18d2.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2430_zps2787ed9c.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2430_zps2787ed9c.jpg.html)(http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll306/superjinca/IMG_2439_zpsbb97c60d.jpg) (http://s291.photobucket.com/user/superjinca/media/IMG_2439_zpsbb97c60d.jpg.html)
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Dang man, you're gonna have to build a footbox for that thing like a Cobra's. ;)
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First, I was wondering if there has been any updated posts about this car that I have missed. Second, I wonder how it would look with a Talladega front end on it. I've wanted to build a street Talladega NASCAR clone with a engine combo similar to this one.
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I am scratching my head about why you want such a thick .375 front plate, I am assuming that you are using engine limiters. mine are .250 thick and cut like elephant ears. all I am thinking is weight. I do understand the safety thing no doubt.
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Is their any updated pics on this car and or updates at all on this sweet torino
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Rob has been missing for a couple years now. Life happens.....
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ok I understand. I was just into this setup that he is doing. life goes on as we all know.
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Does anyone know the status of this build and /or the owner?