CHI Products/quality control?

[NIsaacs]

I know this is debatable, but in my opinion an auto equipped truck is more forgiving with less power. With a good converter to match the engine power, they seem to level out a not perfect gear, multiple tracks and different sleds.

With a standard transmission, it is hard to get the right gear ratio. Even with a slipper clutch to assist in the launch, it can become gear/rpm bound at half track or if half track is perfect now the gear will suffer at the end and fall on it's face. It just seems like everything has to all fit and match the drivers skill level/style. A bad driver can mess up a perfect pulling truck

I like my automatic, it is rare for it to embarrass me, lol

Nick   

[bluef100fe]

My 2 cents worth... Truck pulling isn't all that different than drag racing... You have to get the right combo in the engine and the truck or car. Your brother is bringing a knife or stick to a gun fight if the his class allow 530-550 inch engines with aftermarket heads to run against him. I wouldn't sink anymore money in the 400M. Unless there is more rules that you aren't making us aware of? All the small block and medium block combos that used to run around here have been retired or upgraded to big blocks in our upper classes. The displacement disadvantage is just too hard to over come when there is also much aftermarket support these days and guys with deep pockets that just want to win no matter what it costs them. Anyway, If i was your brother, I'd start researching big block combos.. My belief is its just easier to have a winning combo when your displacement Is at the limit in a displacement limited class. 

You can make enough power with the combo you got to get th mid track speed needed if everything is built correctly but I'm guessing it won't have enough torque at end when the sled drops the last stage and pulls the engine down to its knees or right on its face like the video you showed of your brothers hook. From the sound of the video the truck never got to max speed/rpm... It was laboring even at mid track where it should have been at full song with the least amount of labor on it. It's apparent from that video he needs more gear or more hp and torque. Good luck guys...

[NIsaacs]

Blue, thanks for the feed back and excellent observation/advise. We agree. Building hp is such a slippery slope. The investment in the 400 short block is significant, when you add all the supporting attachments that only fit that block, so with a relatively small expense we concluded the CHI stuff might work. Starting all over with a big block is huge and will someday need to happen, just can't do it yet.

The big guys control the rules. When the CI limit was 500 he was very competitive, then last year the rules changed to 550. The trucks found out that they couldn't get that much power to the ground, so now the rules changed again to allow pulling tires. Now the class is almost out of reach for us and we can't back up, because the next class down, the rules don't allow reversers or drop boxes, which we have in the truck. When the truck was built it was allowed but when the rules changed to 550 for Pro Stock, the Super Stock down graded and not they are not allowed. So I guess we are between both classes now....

Nick

[machoneman]

The rules situation you've run into sounds just like the games NHRA used to pull for decades (and still does) to favor Chevy entrants. Bill Dismuke actually said this after he retired as the chief starter at most national events. Doing so filled the stands as class after class in Stock and Super Stock were consistently won by Chevys year after year. Oh, and if they didn't win, the factored weight breaks, hp ratings or both were juggled to favor....guess which brand? 

Hard to beat City Hall when they change the rules arbitrarily w/o racer input.

[NIsaacs]

Exactly, and the tire rule for 2016 came out in February and the CHI parts were ordered in October, so now what do you do....the only thing we can do, tires and wheels are on order....and now even more power is needed...

We also pull with 4 different organizations and every one is different....but it is still fun!

Nick

[blykins]

Do you have budget/time/willingness to swap cams?

[bluef100fe]

The rules seem to be favoring the big budget guys like normal lol...  What are all the engine rules? Oem arcitecture or is anything aluminum allowed ? I'm sure you can get a bunch more out of the combo with the suggestions the guys have made, but I doubt it will be "enough" to play with the big boys. Your just asking for more than a 400m short block can deliver reliably... Again IMO.  I did a 530 SCJ headed pulling deal for a guy here that made 840 hp with the wrong cam... Cast intake, one 1250, 2-1/4 X 4 headers, 13.5:1, roller cam, a C6, pro fab transfer case, etc.... That was my first crack at it... I'm a FE guy lol... A cam change made it better on the track but we never redynoed it to verify what it gained where... Gave the Chevy guys fits around here for a few years until the rules changed lol. Best of luck.

[NIsaacs]

First of all, I don't think the 400 cleveland block will live with 700 hp in a puller truck.  Do you have an aftermarket block?  Second, I disagree on short stroke for pulling.  A sled puller should have as much torque as possible to get wheel speed up and keep it up, so I think stroke is a big help in being competitive.   I have helped with heads and intakes for pulling vehicles in the past, and torque/velocity are primary needs unless you are using n20.  I agree on neutral balancing everything with a bit of overbalance at the desired rpm for continued pulling range.  Joe-JDC

The block is factory stock .020 over. I am sure it has main studs but I forget if the main caps are modified, I will ask. It does have oiling mods. I don't know the brand of stroker kit. My bro was advised it was good for 7500 but that it would not pull past 7k, and it don't, lol. We hope it will now. We also assume the reason for the small cam is to promote torque?? Or to limit the rpm so it will live??

I think the budget and time would be fine for an upgrade to the cam, especially since the intake has to go back. However I think he wants to give the builder and the package the benefit of the doubt and at least try the combo. I will discuss it with him. The next step up will probably be porting the top end, so when that takes place a new/different cam will again be needed. If and when the bottom goes and it will, I would assume an after market block would be next, provided the CHI parts survive. If they get damaged beyond repair then a 385 series would probably be the next step. When you have a shop full of 400 parts it is had to walk away from them.

The bad thing about pulling is, there is no practice, period. You get one 20 second chance to do good and that's it for the day. You can't even practice at home, there is nothing that can duplicate a sled. Knowing this, it is often very difficult to make yourself change anything, it's like do we dare, will it be worse?

The rules are very liberal, cast iron block, stock crank must fit, any head, carb, intake combo. The head can be aluminum, must be 2 valve and be similar to any factory type. 565 cubic in max for one outfit, 500 max for the other one but anyone can pull, lol

PS: The block has been modified to 4 bolt mains.

Nick


 

 

[bluef100fe]

I've been in this predicament myself. But all those parts are worth a lot more before they get blown up rather than after lol. If the combo used to perform well somebody in a lower class, I would think,  should jump At the chance to upgrade for Their class. Anyway, hopefully you guys get something figured out to get the fords up front.

[babybolt]

There was some guys in Detroit drag racing a 400 block, the Corruncker brothers (not sure I spelled the name correctly), but they could not keep a bottom end in the 400 and eventually had Roush machine some aluminum billet girdles.  The girdle was a one piece chunk with main caps connected to a halo around the oil pan.  I used to have a picture of the girdle.  It had to be expensive back then, must have been in the 1980's before CNC was common.  Anyway, the point is production blocks have there limits, like 5.0L is about 500 hp, FE's about 600-700?, 385 series 800-1,000, then things go boom.

[Jim Comet]

This may or may not help. It is a link to John Kaase's 2008 engine masters 400M build. Jim

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/0902phr-jon-kaase-400m-ford-engine/

[machoneman]

Good link for the 400 engine! 

Yah know, I've tried to find an older FRPP catalog ('95? '97?) that had a nice page of NASCAR spec. and Sportsman 351W based blocks with a short summary of features. But the one spec. that stood out was the hp limit of each block (aluminum, steel, 9.5 deck, 9.2 deck, dry sump, wet sump, etc.).

I was a bit surprised to see that the very best iron NASCAR 4-bolt blocks had a max hp rating off 750 hp, this at a time most engines from Yates, Roush, the Woods Brothers and other big name Ford camps were doing at least 800 in unrestricted form.

Point is, an OEM 400 block anywhere near 700-750 hp is not going to last very long IMO.

[NIsaacs]

This may or may not help. It is a link to John Kaase's 2008 engine masters 400M build. Jim

http://www.hotrod.com/how-to/engine/0902phr-jon-kaase-400m-ford-engine/

Thank you for the link, the guy is amazing!

My Bro talked to Roush before he had the 400 short block built about building a big 460 and he told him a 7k rpm/700 hp engine would require a big wallet but a 900hp/8k engine would need a big check book, lol.

Nick

[falcongeorge]

I would just fix the intake. That void is pretty small and would be an easy fix with epoxy. Same with the "hack" marks, just a tootsie roll sander or a little die grinder work and all will be well. I would normally be rubbing on the intake a fair amount anyway, versus bolting it on as cast. A little work here and there will help for sure, my guess is the heads ports are larger anyway. Kind of surprised there doesn't appear to be much effort on the inside of the intake manifold, seeing how the heads are "top secret".

I sorta agree, that shit'll buff out, but really, WTH?? Chisel marks in the runners?? I would be pissed if they sent me that. CHI stuff isnt cheap, I would expect better than that.

[NIsaacs]

Now the adapters don't fit, what next........?

Nick