Author Topic: CHI Products/quality control?  (Read 21479 times)

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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2016, 01:46:05 PM »
I've pulled those core wires out of factory Ford SOHC heads before.  They are not a concern, IMO.  The thin casting is, however...


I guess we figured for the money, the parts would bolt on the block by themselves, lol... Just seemed like a lot of wire......

Nick
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ToddK

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2016, 05:45:48 PM »
CHI are based here in Australia, though not sure where their parts are cast. Like Brent said, they have a great reputation here for making the best Cleveland heads and intakes. Definitely not in the same league as Procomp junk.

I'd be sending that intake back to the distributor. I know how much of a pain that will be, and may cost you a bit on shipping. I have to do that from time to time with parts I buy from the US.

XR7

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2016, 08:43:14 PM »
I would just fix the intake. That void is pretty small and would be an easy fix with epoxy. Same with the "hack" marks, just a tootsie roll sander or a little die grinder work and all will be well. I would normally be rubbing on the intake a fair amount anyway, versus bolting it on as cast. A little work here and there will help for sure, my guess is the heads ports are larger anyway. Kind of surprised there doesn't appear to be much effort on the inside of the intake manifold, seeing how the heads are "top secret".
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blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #18 on: March 06, 2016, 06:25:35 AM »
If it's a 225 sized intake, it should match the 225cc heads pretty close on the port dimensions.  Should almost be dead-on.

However, it will need some rubbing to make big horsepower.....and I agree with Thor, I've seen those marks on other intakes as well (other brands) and it wouldn't take 30 seconds to make them go away. 
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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #19 on: March 06, 2016, 06:42:02 AM »
We are not sure about port match yet, the adaptors are not here yet. Any idea what the intake CFM flow of the 225 heads is? We assumed they would make big power stock, ya know...CHI and stuff lol

Nick
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2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
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blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #20 on: March 06, 2016, 07:00:48 AM »
They will certainly cover the stock flow of a 225cc head.  However, when you start wanting big horsepower numbers, they need some plenum work.  Keep in mind that out of the box, the CHI stuff will trump any of the other aftermarket Cleveland parts out there. 

FWIW, the cylinder heads and intake in the 434 I built on the previous page, all kept the stock CHI port dimensions.  However, lots of internal work was done.  The heads ended up being 260 cc. 
Brent Lykins
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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2016, 07:21:47 AM »
We are both excellent mechanics, however, we are not hotrod mechanics, that's why I am here!

I was always under the impression that an over square engine will make more power than an under square engine of the same cubic inch. His engine is 4.020 bore with a 4.250 stroke, so will it automatically have less power than your build, if everything was the same? If all he is going to get is about 625hp that's not going to work. The Pro Stock class also needs an engine in the 8k rpm range, his old one hit a brick wall at 6800. Different cam, cam timing, carb, ignition timing, final drive gear ratios, nothing helped.

Nick
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
2001 Ram 2500 4x4 QC short bed, Cummins, 6spd, some mods
1991 Dodge D250, reg cab, Cummins, 5spd, mods
1974 F-350, Cummins, 5spd, 3spd aux, mods
1975 F-250 4x4, 428, C-6, Sled Puller

blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2016, 07:32:18 AM »
I personally don't see it going over that number.  He needs a lot more camshaft and the heads/intake will need port work.  FWIW, I did a 408 Cleveland based on those heads and intake, with 10.5:1 compression, and a 248/254 @ .050" cam, .670-.680 lift and it made 575 hp at 7000 rpm here.  He would have to pick up 50 hp over that and the compression difference would make it for a lot of it, but the cam isn't nearly big enough for 30 more cubic inches.  My guess is that his engine would peter out at around 6400-6500 with the camshaft he has. 

However, remember, that you can make anything work.  I like the over-square engines for race motors, not because an under-square motor won't rev, or won't make power, but it's often easier to make horsepower with a larger bore because you can fit bigger valves into the heads.  Also, a short stroke engine is easier on the rings and bearings because of piston speed and the size of the crank that you're trying to spin at high rpms. 

Will an under-square long stroke engine make horsepower and rev?  Yep.   It just takes a little more work and planning to make it do so.

I think in the overall scheme of things,  to hit the numbers and rpms he's wanting to hit, he's probably better off with another combo, especially if it's a factory block.   I would do an aftermarket block, 4.155" bore or larger, and a pretty short stroke....3" or 3.250".  Turn it to the moon and add a ton of head/intake/cam/compression.

I build as many small blocks as I do FE's, so if he has a question or is stumped on something, feel free to give me a call. 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 07:35:28 AM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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Barry_R

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2016, 07:39:31 AM »
Keep in mind that out of the box, the CHI stuff will trump any of the other aftermarket Cleveland parts out there. 


Depends on the box.  The 412 inch Pantera engine we did here has a pair of Scott Cook's heads on it.  That one is pretty close to 600HP at pump gas compression with a 236ish hydraulic roller "RV cam".  Of course those come CNC'd so the comparison is not really 1 to 1.

That intake is kinda rough.  Looks like the foundry guy had a hard time getting the core out of the plenum, hence the chisel marks.  The void should have been welded up and detailed before shipping.  All pretty normal stuff that usually gets handled before we ever see the parts.

blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2016, 07:48:12 AM »
I haven't tried Scott's heads.  I don't hear much about them on my Cleveland forum or some of the others, but obviously they work fairly well. 
Brent Lykins
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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2016, 08:17:48 AM »
My brother is not a computer person at all so I am his research/advisor, I feel bad because years ago before I landed here I recommended his builder. In all fairness he has 3 seasons on his custom built short block that he is going to reuse. However, we were pretty plain about needing way more power, that's why the CHI stuff, porting the heads or intake was never mentioned as being needed. Most of his competition run big block Chevys and 385 series Fords, he is stubborn about his 400m and wants to keep that size. FWI, this is in a sled puller so I think we need to keep the long stroke? The class was 500 cid limit but has moved to 550 so he has a lot to overcome. He has always been very competitive until last year, then the larger cubes passed him up.

Again, I want to thank you guys for the info/feed back. It is too late in the season to change direction now but the future (next winter shut down) is only about 8 months away. His truck performs really well chassis wise and can overcome some deficiency in a smaller motor, but 700 hp and 7500 rpm is a must and more is better.

When the season starts I will keep you guys informed on how it does. In the mean time keep the advise coming!

Nick
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
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blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2016, 08:23:51 AM »
Yeah, that's not a 700 hp or 7500 rpm combo.
Brent Lykins
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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2016, 08:36:48 AM »
Yeah, that's not a 700 hp or 7500 rpm combo.

Thank you. Don't get me wrong the builder is good, I don't want to keep sounding negative but just not great in my opinion, mostly because his communications skills are lacking, you have all encountered what I mean...you can tell when info is like pulling teeth and you get the feeling of hurry up I want to get off the phone. We are both humble with good manners so rather than have phone rage ;D we just go somewhere else.

Nick
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
2001 Ram 2500 4x4 QC short bed, Cummins, 6spd, some mods
1991 Dodge D250, reg cab, Cummins, 5spd, mods
1974 F-350, Cummins, 5spd, 3spd aux, mods
1975 F-250 4x4, 428, C-6, Sled Puller

blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2016, 01:52:47 PM »
Well, here's my thinking, but listen with a grain of salt because I don't specialize in pulling truck engines....

I'd rather have a much shorter stroke as a pulling engine stays at basically WOT and high rpms for a much longer period of time than your drag race motor, street engine, etc.  A 4.250" stroke crank in a SBF (albeit a 400 block) is a big arm and is a lot of weight to be slinging around. 

Most of the pulling truck engines around here are also BBC and BBF with the 470 inch BBF's making over 1000 hp with Trick Flow A460 heads, peaking at 7500-8000.   The Fords use Eliminator blocks, with a 4.500" bore size I think.  That would make the stroke mighty short....

It would be difficult to make that bore/stroke combination pull rpms efficiently and safely. 

Is there another class he can run in?
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 03:11:38 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2016, 03:11:03 PM »
He can't go down to Super Stock because he has a Reverser and ProFab t-case, it sucks when you build for a class and the rules change. The rules also changed to pulling tires because the big power guys could not get the power to the ground. So now with pulling tires he really needs more power. Then some places they don't follow the rules....

We have often wondered about the stroker kit in his engine. He first built it as .060 over 400 with the trickflow heads, Holly intake and Cam Research solid roller cam. It had awesome RPM. He started with a 6800 rpm pill then kept going up as the season went. The last pull of the season he put in a 7600 rpm chip and blew it up. His reasoning was that was the year he graduated, 1976 lol  We think the main reason was he did not modify the oil system, that's what we learned after the fact.

That's when he had the custom engine built, but like I have said, it hits a brick wall at 6800-7000 no matter what. That's the reason for the CHI stuff, he hopes to get the power and rpm up. The builder says the short block is up for it. It has 3 seasons on it but only 21 hrs so it should still be stout.

Nick
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
2001 Ram 2500 4x4 QC short bed, Cummins, 6spd, some mods
1991 Dodge D250, reg cab, Cummins, 5spd, mods
1974 F-350, Cummins, 5spd, 3spd aux, mods
1975 F-250 4x4, 428, C-6, Sled Puller