Author Topic: CHI Products/quality control?  (Read 21470 times)

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blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #30 on: March 06, 2016, 03:16:56 PM »
If he's bound to give it a try, I'd port the heads (they are about 320 cfm out of the box) and add a lot more camshaft than what he has.  It doesn't have enough camshaft to pull as high as he wants, even with the better head.  It may pull that high, but it won't make hp that high.

Maybe cut the counterweights down on the crank to try and try to lighten it. 

If he's got the budget, the heads can flow around 380-400 cfm with work.
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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #31 on: March 06, 2016, 03:44:40 PM »
I don't know if this applies but his crank is zero balanced? Does that mean some counter weights were cut down?

He is also having Ram build him a custom flywheel and twin disk clutch, that will be heavy....

We wondered about the cam, when you add the lash .020 intake and .024 exhaust, seems like a lot, it (cam) gets small....we expected a bigger cam, it is not much bigger than the old one, duration wise, it does have a lot more lift. We assumed it was because the heads were so much better, that they were making up the difference in efficiency?

Nick
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
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blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2016, 03:52:04 PM »
No, it just means that the crankshaft was internally balanced, so it doesn't need a weighted balancer or flywheel to balance it.  I mentioned cutting the counterweights down and making the crankshaft lighter just to aid in how much weight is being thrown around at high rpm.   

Generally, twin disc clutches are smaller diameter.  Most of the McLeod pieces I deal with are under 10" disc and pressure plate diameter.   They may add a little weight, but it keeps it closer to the centerline of the crankshaft.

As for the cam, did your brother tell the builder  that he was aiming for 700 hp and to put the peak hp up higher?

The 434 that I pictured peaked right at 7000 with 261/273 @ .050", but we ran a .904" lifter with a larger wheel diameter, which adds a couple degrees of duration.   These heads flowed 380 on the intake side at .800".   Generally speaking, the better the head flows, the less the duration needs to increase, as the head is more efficient.   I had bought another camshaft to try on the dyno, 270/280 @ .050", but the engine made enough horsepower that we didn't try it.  I have it on the shelf for when the engine comes back for a freshen-up.  I expect that we would push over the 800 hp mark with it.

The out-of-the-box CHI 225cc head is probably 60 cfm lower than that from what I've seen on the flow bench.   He would need a lot more camshaft than what I used to make up for the difference. 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 03:54:06 PM by blykins »
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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2016, 04:13:31 PM »
I don't think an HP figure was really discussed, just that he wanted all he could get, I don't think porting was discussed either so maybe we didn't get specific enough, remember communication or lack of....

The heck of it is, without being experienced engine builders, we don't know if we dare change cams without knowing more about how the heads are set up. Will a bigger cam hit the pistons for example? That was a concern the builder built for and had my bro measure for him. I think time and money wise this season is done, we have to use what we got. If the power is down and it sure sound like it will be, then cam and porting will be next if the short block is still up to it.

Here is a an average video of his truck, note the bog at the end. We call it good traction, not low power, lol.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSqPRN7akng 

Nick
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
2001 Ram 2500 4x4 QC short bed, Cummins, 6spd, some mods
1991 Dodge D250, reg cab, Cummins, 5spd, mods
1974 F-350, Cummins, 5spd, 3spd aux, mods
1975 F-250 4x4, 428, C-6, Sled Puller

blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2016, 04:18:42 PM »
Well, exhaust valve clearance is usually not an issue with the Cleveland stuff.    Most C pistons don't even have exhaust valve reliefs.....

The Diamond pistons I used in the build above handled .850" lift with over .100" of clearance on the intake side. 

It just depends on which pistons were used, but you are correct in that a larger duration cam (doesn't necessarily have to have more lift) could make it harder on P/V clearance.

I would expect that your brother's engine will be around the 625-635 hp mark. 

How much carb does he have?
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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Heo

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2016, 04:28:15 PM »
What rods are your brother using in the M400



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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #36 on: March 06, 2016, 04:32:49 PM »
I will have him take a picture of the pistons, I think they have one valve relief, I don't know the brand. He has an 800 Edelbrock and a 950 Holley, the engine now seems to like the 800.

I will get the head gasket specs too. I will also ask him what the valve train specs/brand is, I think he told me he would need different length pushrods this build, I will try and confirm that. I don't think he knows what the rods are or even the crank but I will ask.

Nick
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
2001 Ram 2500 4x4 QC short bed, Cummins, 6spd, some mods
1991 Dodge D250, reg cab, Cummins, 5spd, mods
1974 F-350, Cummins, 5spd, 3spd aux, mods
1975 F-250 4x4, 428, C-6, Sled Puller

NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #37 on: March 06, 2016, 05:25:43 PM »
Here is a Jon Kaase built 530 cid, note the chassis behavior and the breakage at the end, rear axle I think. He is a good puller in my bro's class.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kYsc9b0WhyE

Nick
« Last Edit: March 06, 2016, 05:31:42 PM by NIsaacs »
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
2001 Ram 2500 4x4 QC short bed, Cummins, 6spd, some mods
1991 Dodge D250, reg cab, Cummins, 5spd, mods
1974 F-350, Cummins, 5spd, 3spd aux, mods
1975 F-250 4x4, 428, C-6, Sled Puller

blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #38 on: March 06, 2016, 06:41:54 PM »
I bet the crankshaft wasn't having a good time on that one.....did you hear it getting/losing traction repeatedly?
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
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NIsaacs

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #39 on: March 07, 2016, 10:03:54 AM »
I was mistaken on the compression, the 12 was for the old engine. This one is around 13.5 so that will help! Stock head gasket .039-.041 crushed, piston at top is flush with one intake relief, no clue on cc's, 60 cc heads, New estimate of power and CR ratio? :D

The roller rockers are Trick Flo, stock ratio 1.73, I forgot to ask about the roller lifters.

Nick
2021 Ram 2500 4x4 Cummins of course!
2017 Ford Escape, 2.0 Eco Boost
2001 Ram 2500 4x4 QC short bed, Cummins, 6spd, some mods
1991 Dodge D250, reg cab, Cummins, 5spd, mods
1974 F-350, Cummins, 5spd, 3spd aux, mods
1975 F-250 4x4, 428, C-6, Sled Puller

blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #40 on: March 07, 2016, 10:58:41 AM »
I'd say your compression ratio estimate is pretty close.  I did a rough calculation with a 3.5 cc flat top and came up with 13.5. 

Horsepower will increase a little with another 1.5 points of compression, but I still don't see you going over 650 hp with unported heads/intake. 

Still need a lot more camshaft.  :)
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
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Joe-JDC

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #41 on: March 07, 2016, 12:37:09 PM »
First of all, I don't think the 400 cleveland block will live with 700 hp in a puller truck.  Do you have an aftermarket block?  Second, I disagree on short stroke for pulling.  A sled puller should have as much torque as possible to get wheel speed up and keep it up, so I think stroke is a big help in being competitive.   I have helped with heads and intakes for pulling vehicles in the past, and torque/velocity are primary needs unless you are using n20.  I agree on neutral balancing everything with a bit of overbalance at the desired rpm for continued pulling range.  Joe-JDC
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blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #42 on: March 07, 2016, 12:58:26 PM »
Just from what I've seen around here, all the competitive guys are running big bores and short strokes.  These are BBF's and BBC's though, 900-1000 hp and probably 600-650 lb-ft of torque.....4.500" bore, 3.6-ish stroke.  I think there's a 470-477 inch rule.

IMO, a long stroke doesn't always guarantee torque....displacement plays the role there and it's easier to make horsepower with a big valved head if you have a big bore. 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 01:03:20 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
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Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
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502-759-1431
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Joe-JDC

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #43 on: March 07, 2016, 04:45:24 PM »
Yes, but a BBF A-460 at 600 CI will have over 800 lbft torque and 1200 hp if it is built right.  I will take torque for pulling a load any day when it comes to pulling down at the big end.  A short stroke will quit or bog a lot quicker than a long stroke in same engine.  Pulling is all about getting wheel speed up and keeping it up and torque will help keep it up as the load increases.  I guess it all comes down to class rules, but in unlimited class, bigger is always better.   Joe-JDC
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blykins

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Re: CHI Products/quality control?
« Reply #44 on: March 07, 2016, 05:00:28 PM »
I guess what I was trying to get across is that just because it has a long stroke doesn't mean that it will make more torque.

There are certain wives tales regarding long strokes that are just not true… Long stroke cranks can't rev, long stroke cranks make more torque, etc....

In a displacement restricted class, I would rather have a larger bore than stroke, and as you say, even the big inch motors,  500 and 600 ci, make a ton of torque but have much larger bores.
« Last Edit: March 07, 2016, 05:02:45 PM by blykins »
Brent Lykins
Lykins Motorsports
Custom FE Street, Drag Race, Road Race, and Pulling Truck Engines
Custom Roller & Flat Tappet Camshafts
www.lykinsmotorsports.com
brent@lykinsmotorsports.com
www.customfordcams.com
502-759-1431
Instagram:  brentlykinsmotorsports
YouTube:  Lykins Motorsports