Final Decision Time--410 or Cleveland?

[gregaba]

I spent many years atCharlsbad racing with my Dad and then myself in the 60's.
Really miss those days.
Greg

[Yellow Truck]

For nostalgic reasons FE in the Cougar. The 410 was Mercury specific.

[plovett]

Seems to me that the 410 FE would make a better truck engine than a 351C with 4bbl heads.   More displacement and smaller head ports will make more low end power.  If you want the truck to be really "trucky" then I'd be inclined to put the bigger engine in it. 

If the truck doesn't need to be a heavy hauler then no worries either way.

Personally if I had 351C with 4bbl heads I would likely use that in my hotrod.  Put some cam in the motor and some gear in the car and let it spin pretty high. 

JMO,

pl

[gdaddy01]

fe in the cougar , mercury valve covers , call it a matador cougar , with the correct air filter , and fender badges , just running my mouth .

[fryedaddy]

this debate reminds me of a local hotrod mustang. back in the 70sd-80s there was a 68 or 69 mustang they called the trogan horse.it took on all comers from the carolinas .tn,va and anywhere else that had heard of it. as far as i know it never got beat on the street buy any chevys or mopars or even fords for that matter.i was a fe man in my late teens-early twenties and i was proud of the local mustang thinking it was a scj 428 all these years.i met a guy last summer who was part owner of the car.he informed me it was a 351 clevland car.it broke my heart to find out.

[427John]

As a lot of you well know by now, I have 2 rigs I'm building 2 engines for--a 1989 F-150 2wd short bed auto and a 1967 Cougar 4-speed. Engines are 410 FE and 4V 351 Cleveland.
It's now time to make a final decision on which engine to put in which vehicle.
I'm starting to assemble the 410 so, depending on which rig it goes into, will determine the final configuration.

So guys, which vehicle should get which engine? Why would you install it in that vehicle?

I know you guys are probably tired of seeing my posts on this subject. I won't post anymore after this. I promise. I don't have a problem. I can stop any time I want! 

Thanks again.

Speaking strictly from the point of view of the swap itself,while both engines will be easy swaps into the cougar since both were installed from the factory in the case of the 351C not until 1970 but the engine compartment is basically the same,while the 89 truck was never built with either which will complicate the swap meaning fabricated motor mounts and custom headers or manifolds.My vote would be to install a 460 into the 89 since motor mounts oil pans headers and everything else can be sourced from factory installations.Find a low mile 460 EFI from a motorhome,freshen the shortblock put a bigger cam and earlier D3VE carbed heads,use the mounts oil pan and headers for a 2wd f250,with little to no fabrication.Then you can put either engine into the cougar and either sell the other to fund the 460 or save it for another project.I once purchased a 1973 Mach 1 that had a 428 CJ swapped in but had standard log manifolds since the CJ manifolds wouldn't fit,and back then I couldn't find any headers that would fit,the motor mount setup was also less than ideal so I decided to build a 460 and swap it in,429 mounts and headers which were readily available made it a bolt in deal.While any swap is doable they can sometimes drag out while solving each problem that comes along.While installing the FE or 429-460 into the 79 and earlier Ford trucks is equally easy unfortunately the same can't be said of the 80 and later trucks.

[410bruce]

Appreciate al the responses, guys. 

427John--I could go the 460 route (I have in the past with a '79 F-100) as I have enough parts and 460 C-6s laying around to do the swap. But I like to be different. Who knows, in the future a 460 may find its way into there.
As far as swapping the Cleveland in, it would be a virtual bolt-in. The truck has a small block C-6 in it now and the 300 frame perches just need to be swapped for V8 units--which I have. Then it's just a matter of acquiring 5.0/5.8 motor mounts and the C is a drop-in.
As far as the headers, another member had mentioned running I think 1970 Mustang headers in a truck swap he did. Something needed to be messaged by the collectors as they pointed directly at that cross brace that the older trucks had. But he made it work. My friend who has worked at a muffler shop for most of his life will make headers work for my application.

The FE wouldn't be bad either I don't believe. Swap an FE C-6 in but the motor mounts may need some fabrication. As I recall, they are moved up or back from the other V8 mounts in a truck application.

Thanks for the input.

[plovett]

If the 351C is going into the truck why not put some 2bbl heads on it?   They are cheap to buy and I think they would work better (in a truck) than the 4bbl heads.

Just a thought,

pl

[410bruce]

If the 351C is going into the truck why not put some 2bbl heads on it?   They are cheap to buy and I think they would work better (in a truck) than the 4bbl heads.

Just a thought,

pl

I thought about that as well. But then, in my mind, it kind of snowballed. If I went with 2V heads, heck, why not just get a 400. Then, since I'm getting up in cubic inches and a little more weight, why not a 460? lol.
Since I like to be different, I'll keep the 4V heads. I already have the factory 4v intake and exhaust manifolds to run now. And, as I mentioned somewhere else, I've run an open chambered 4V Cleveland in a pick-up years ago and it was fine. In fact a buddy of mine had an early '70s Bronco he installed a closed chamber 4V engine in and that thing ran great. He could stop halfway up a steep sand dune, clutch it out slowly then nail it, and it would roost all 4 tires--no bog or seemingly loss of bottom end noted.

I think the problem a lot of people have with 4V engines on the street is over-camming them. They don't require nearly as much duration as a 2V or a Windsor style engine to accomplish the same thing. And when they do go big on the duration, that's what really kills the bottom end and throttle response at lower RPM.

Thanks again for the input.

[plovett]

I hear ya.  It's interesting to compare the Boss 302 and the Chevy DZ302.  Similar power outputs, but with very different builds.  One with big heads and mild cam, the other with small heads and wild cam.  The Boss 351 and 350 LT1 make a similar comparison. 

https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp-1001-muscle-car-engine-shootout/

I think the big port Cleveland stuff is cool.

paul

[cleandan]

Given the same circumstances I would install the FE into the Cougar.
This makes for a tight fit to be sure, but it does look right for the era, and you could run the Mercury pent roof valve covers in the Mercury Cougar...Thus making for some "factory" BS sessions should one be so inclined. Or at least giving rise to some great theory's one may hear from onlookers.

The 351 C would be much easier to install in the newer truck.
Given they are both going to be "toys" it really does not matter what the engine will do concerning power as much as what the engine will do in terms of fun and enjoyment.

A properly dressed FE in the Cougar gives rise to many great options and looks, as well as the ooh/aah factor of a big block Cougar, making the lean towards FE Cougar.

The swapped in 351C is just as appealing as the FE in the truck, with neither engine having an advantage over the other when the "toy" status is considered.
When the Cougar is brought into this situation the 351C leans toward the truck.

Either engine would be good in either vehicle so long as the workmanship is of proper quality, making this whole choice one of personal desire and taste.