Author Topic: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners  (Read 3596 times)

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GerryP

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #45 on: October 27, 2020, 01:34:23 PM »
Everything written is 100-percent, absolutely, no doubt true.  You make the choice as to what's best for you that you can do today.  Ten years from now, it might be something different.

But here's the issue not qualified:  How many of these cars are being used as daily drivers?  All the "better for this", "better for that" are vital considerations for a daily driver.  Am I bothered that my engine is buzzing 3,500RPM and 70MPH?  Nope.  Not at all.  I have only around five miles of highway driving like that, and that's not very often.  Most of my driving is 45MPH or there abouts.  If you're putting a lot of miles on the car, then you have considerations to make.  After all, back in the day, Ford built cars with Four speeds and 3.91 and 4.30 gears, so consumers had to make the same considerations.

If you have enough gear that you can easily get the car rolling, and not burning up the clutch, then you are most of the way there.  If I had unlimited funds, then I would be flogging a roadrace Six speed with a Halibrand Quick Change.  But I do the best I can with what I have. 

427John

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #46 on: October 27, 2020, 04:34:47 PM »
Gerry has a very good point,I guess it depends on if you live in town or in a rural area.I personally live in a rural area so that to go anywhere I drive a minimum of 15-20 min at highway speed,but if you were to live in town and most of your driving is at less than 50 mph and never take the car on long trips then Gerry is absolutely right the close ratio box will give better performance if used in conjunction with 4.11,4.30,or 4.56 gears in a Galaxie,or even 3.91's if in a big block Mustang or Torino.

427John

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #47 on: October 27, 2020, 04:46:04 PM »
Back to the rationale for the close ratio,it was to minimize the rpm drops at shifts in an attempt to maintain the engine speed as close to peak power as possible which it did if you stretched the engine out in every gear before upshifting.That in itself tells you something about its expected use.

wayne

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #48 on: October 28, 2020, 04:25:42 PM »
If you have a 2.32 and go to a 2.78 it will act like you added 75 hp the 2.32 was not one of fords better ideas.A friend of mine raced a 65 mustang 1/8 mi and took a 2.78 toploader out and ran a 3 speed 3.03 low gear i think the car ran a better et and won a lot.First gear means a lot.
« Last Edit: October 28, 2020, 04:29:26 PM by wayne »

GerryP

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #49 on: October 28, 2020, 05:05:32 PM »
...ran a 3 speed 3.03 low gear i think the car ran a better et and won a lot.First gear means a lot.

The 3.03 toploader didn't have a 3.03 First gear ratio.  The "3.03" is the centerline distance between countershaft and mainshaft.  Gear ratios varied by application.  The tallest First gear was a 2.99 in a truck, then a 2.70-something, then a 2.40-something.  With a stock WR TL, you get that 2.78 first.  So even considering the tallest 3.03 gear, you don't really gain that much ratio.  Theoretically, if you were running 100 lb.ft of torque through the trans, the tall three speed would output 299 lb/ft. while the WR would be running 278 lb.ft.  More, but not startling more.  But anyone who has run a car down the strip will tell you that you have to tune the chassis for more gear.  Sometimes, that might just be tightening up the slapper bar, less compression in the shock, more axle preload, or some tire pressure adjustment.

frnkeore

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #50 on: October 28, 2020, 05:39:08 PM »
If you have a 2.32 and go to a 2.78 it will act like you added 75 hp the 2.32 was not one of fords better ideas.A friend of mine raced a 65 mustang 1/8 mi and took a 2.78 toploader out and ran a 3 speed 3.03 low gear i think the car ran a better et and won a lot.First gear means a lot.
I think it would be much easier to pull the 3rd member to drop the G/R than pull the trans, in that scenario.
Frank

427John

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #51 on: October 28, 2020, 06:00:19 PM »
Since the OP stated that his car is cruised a lot on the street and at highway speeds,I agree with all the advice about the wide ratio and street friendly gears,if the car is driven a quarter or eighth mile at a time without a doubt the close ratio and steep rear gears are the hot setup,but it doesn't sound like that is the case with his car.It also sounds like he has obtained a big input tans that he wants to upgrade his original small input trans with,if this is the case if his galaxie has an original big block galaxie toploader it is currently a close ratio and will have the same gear spread and the only difference will be the big input upgrade.If the trans is in good shape and ready to go it may not be cost effective to rebuild it just to convert it to a wide ratio but if it currently needs to be rebuilt I would do a wide ratio conversion during the rebuild.

frnkeore

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #52 on: October 29, 2020, 12:47:56 AM »
I thought it would be obvious that I was referring to the 3 sp, 1/8 mi car not, the OP, since Wayne was talking about changing out the trans, I guess not.

My point was it would be easier to swap 3rd members, that transmissions, if your focus is 1/8 mi.





« Last Edit: October 29, 2020, 12:55:59 AM by frnkeore »
Frank

427John

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #53 on: October 29, 2020, 11:14:03 PM »
I thought it would be obvious that I was referring to the 3 sp, 1/8 mi car not, the OP, since Wayne was talking about changing out the trans, I guess not.

My point was it would be easier to swap 3rd members, that transmissions, if your focus is 1/8 mi.
Agreed much easier.

My427stang

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #54 on: October 31, 2020, 08:34:58 AM »
Lots of good info in this thread.  A few punch lines I would reiterate to the OP

1 - With the intended use of this car as being a bunch of highway running, you would benefit from a wide ratio, especially with a car happy with a 3.25 rear.  It's not an opinion, and it doesn't mean you have to, but it would allow the current gear with a bit more street manners

2 - Most cars are expenses not investments, so if you want to row gears, and you don't want to spend the cash, you don't HAVE to convert it.  I drove a 433 inch Mustang with a Portosonic, 250@.050 LSA cam, 1000 Holley and 3.00 gear from Vegas to Huntington Beach and back with a close ratio and it was miserable in LA and Anaheim traffic, really miserable, but was also not built for that, but did OK on the highway.  Would I recommend it in a heavier car, no, but if the engine is mild enough, and the clutch was happy, it'd work

3 - If you do want to set it up for highway and stoplight, maybe sell the big in and find a small input wide ratio, you may find you end up ahead.   Clutches become much easier to find too, with more options

Remember, everything is a trade off, peaky engine, needs lots of close gears, mild engine, recovers from wide ratios well and actually prefers it.  When I build or help spec a car, I start with use, it often takes longer than the build itself to get to the real goal of the owner, then you look at budget and realign if required.  I think a good clean up, reseal and paint on a big in/out could get you a sale to fund a heck of a wide ratio and likely a clutch/flywheel too.

« Last Edit: October 31, 2020, 08:37:26 AM by My427stang »
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Ross

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Diogenes

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #55 on: October 31, 2020, 10:39:56 AM »
My427stang Your recap is on the money, and yes, a lot of good info.

Highway running is a small portion of my driving, and will become even smaller with the close ratio. In the end, I would prefer a small in and out for many practical reasons, clutch selection and a better match with my current setup being the top of the list. Unfortunately, I only have the big in/out to work with, as my C6 had to come out due to a trashed torque converter. The 7 Litre package deal was too good to pass up, an HEH-CG with all the trimmings (some unavailable and impossible to find trimmings as well).

At this point, a nice clean up and a 3.89 gear is where I'm going. I acknowledge the close ratio big in/out is not ideal for my application, and may be a bit overkill for the mild 450ish HP 390, but a less than ideal arrangement is not a deal breaker. I suppose if a Galaxie small in/out came into the picture, I'd be interested, but Galaxie toploaders don't seem to be anywhere as plentiful as Mustang/Cougar, Torino/Cyclone units. A less than ideal four speed in a Galaxie is still a four speed in a Galaxie--I'm looking forward to Spring 2021 driving season.
When criminals make the laws, obeying the law is a crime.

1966 Galaxie 500 390 C6 Traction-Lock 9in.
1985 Toyota Celica Supra
71 Montego MX wagon 351C Toploader Detroit Locker Cyclone competition gauge/dash bucket seats/console
89 Texas DPS Police Mustang
71 Torino GT 351C 4V AT
68 Cougar 351W Toploader Traction-Lock 8in.
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427John

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #56 on: October 31, 2020, 05:39:08 PM »
Yes excellent summary,I wanted to like the post but don't know how.

Gettinther

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #57 on: October 31, 2020, 06:52:48 PM »
I mean no discredit to anyone here, just a comment, I have a 65 Galaxie , 390 very mild, C/R 4spd. big in/out, 3:50 rear diff. and 235/70R15 tires.  It can be a little doggy during take off but very livable, living in a small town I only use first gear in town anyway unless i just want to mess around a bit on a couple select streets. When i get out on the highway it doesn't matter how fast it needs the next gear I am going for fourth anyway and can run the 4lane highway pretty decent. The 390 doesn't mind if I drop a gear at 45 and take it to 70 but the chevy's of a similar category hate it. I never watch the tach. Brent did a custom cam for me after I had the car for a couple years and that has been well worth it, still has decent take off manners and great idle for a Dairy Queener and still haven't installed the new clutch. I will also state I have no experience with a wide ratio 4spd.as this car came to me this way except for noted changes.
I hope you enjoy yours when completed as I do mine.   
04 F150 Lariat 4x4 extended cab
65 Galaxie 500XL 390 4gear
56 Fairlane 4DR.  223 3speed
92 F150 XLT 460 auto carbed
75 Nova SS hatchback 350 4gear

frnkeore

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #58 on: November 01, 2020, 07:54:11 PM »
Has anyone tried one of these? Not real high HP rating but, should be in the range of the small TL.

4.11 rear would be 3.24 final.

https://www.advanceadapters.com/products/760014m-27--ford-ranger-torque-splitter-overdrive-27-with-a-4848-retainer-index/
Frank

427John

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Re: Calling All Close Ratio Toploader Galaxie Owners
« Reply #59 on: November 01, 2020, 09:51:06 PM »
I've never had one myself,but a friend had one in his 66 F-250 years ago I can't remember if his was a ranger or a browning they were available as an over or an underdrive.His truck had a nice built 428 with 406 shorties and used it for a lot of heavy towing and made a lot of trips back and forth between eastern WA and northern CA he loved it and ran it for years,he did have to modify his shifter cane with a reverse bend to clear the seat due to the trans setback.